Lunester Lounge 2017.... for ANY topic you wish to discuss

[Mythocentric]

Afternoon all,

Just watched a programme about China's 'Maglev' from the 'Impossible Engineering' series on 'Yesterday', which I recorded during the week. An amazing train, built by German engineers but using British inventions, and capable of regular speeds of 431km/hr (268mph) with a record of 501km/hr (311mph)! All made possible initially by Michael Faraday's discovery of electro-magnetic induction then, much later, an incredible piece of lateral thinking by Professor Eric Laithwaite (aka the 'Father of the Maglev'!) who surmised that if you unrolled a stator and rotor, converting them to linear format, you could make what he called his 'magnetic river'. Sadly he didn't live to see the mechanical and control problems, which beset his prototypes, overcome in this age of super-computers. For those of you who haven't seen it, it runs between Shanghai and its airport, although there is talk of extending all the way to Beijing. The carbon footprint is very low compared to any conventional train as there is no on-board propulsion system, and unlike conventional OHLE trains, only the actual part of the track it is using is electrified as it passes over it. Another plus is longevity as a total lack of friction means no wearing parts! An awesome piece of engineering, well worth googling if you are at all interested!

Kind regards,

Jock.

 

A superb example of engineering Jock but sadly a fine example of western ingenuity being brought to fruition by others. One thing I admire about the Japanese and to a similar extent the Chinese is the difference in attitude between west and east where we have the western attitude to new ideas on one hand of 'could we do it and how much will it cost?' to the east's attitude of 'Right. Whats the best way to go about it?'

I believe one fine example is Britain's (i.e. read government!) promise (probably unrealistic) to reduce carbon emissions to 0% by 2025, which is being achieved largely by moving production to China. China, on the other hand, one of the worlds most heavily industrialised nations is actually doing something about it with projects like the Maglev!

 

Regards

 

Bill

Edited June 27, 2015 by Mythocentric

[Allegheny1600]

While I would never kick the cat, I do agree with you Dave - "Down with this kind of thing"!

I suppose my most cringeworthy word or phrase is "chillax" for some reason, I detest this.

How about this, then?

 A linguistics professor says during a lecture that, “In English, a double negative forms a positive. But in some languages, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, in no language in the world can a double positive form a negative.” But then a voice from the back of the room piped up, “Yeah, right.”

John.

[HeeleyBridge]

OK I don't have a cat.  If I did and I tried to kick it I would hurt myself and fall over.

 

"Whatever"  my kids know better than saying that to the old man. I once asked my daughter what she wanted to eat. "Whatever". I put a plate of dog biscuits in front of her. The beagle less pleased than she was though.

[Mythocentric]

There is a report in existence, from sometime in the 70's I think, from sociologists who detected a growing gap between the generations in language skills. It went as far as predicting the development of two English languages. One being that used by the 'educated (?)' older section of the population, the other being a debased form used by the 'general masses'. When I go into town I pass through an estate which has a small park where all the local kids congregate and I sometimes fear that that prediction has come true when I hear what amounts to a bunch of 'Vicky Pollard's' in conversation with a mix of patois (based on Jamaican slang) and buzzwords. I get this horrible feeling that if someone spoke to me I'd need a translator to find out what they were asking. Still, it would make for good practice if and when the human race should make contact with an alien species and I must admit, it is funny when 4-year-old Lucy sticks her bum out and does her Bart Simpson impression and invites you to "bite my shorts!"

 

Regards

 

Bill

Edited June 27, 2015 by Mythocentric

[HeeleyBridge]

I have a very strong Sheffield accent, but it didn't develop until I was a teenager. When I'm in Germany one of my friends has to translate me into English for our German friends, but they do understand my pathetic attempts at German. My own kids spoke nicely until they became teenagers and exchanged intelligent language for a set of simian grunts. All the grandkids speak quite nicely, though my two sons are almost as "broad Yorkshire" as I can be when I don't think about it.

 

So as we say around here "alsidilatergoinforaweshndenawet"

 

 

I'll see you later, going to get smartened up and then off for a pint

[peach james]

OK I don't have a cat.  If I did and I tried to kick it I would hurt myself and fall over.

 

"Whatever"  my kids know better than saying that to the old man. I once asked my daughter what she wanted to eat. "Whatever". I put a plate of dog biscuits in front of her. The beagle less pleased than she was though.

 

Pig balls and gravy.  Stock answer for that one.  Or, for any of the older crowd around here... liver and onions.  (probably made by the school 'marm, and totally inedible by normal mortals...)

 

Dinner last night around here was Lamb kerbabs, veggie kerbabs, and best of all, bacon kerbabs , cooked on the propane bbq.  We're into summer here, as there is a fire ban in effect, and it doesn't look like we will get any rain for at least a week.  (and even then, it is doubtful).  Thursday night, while we were sitting around at the fire hall waiting to do our practice, Sooke (the local town) department had another call out, it just touched a building wall and didn't get into the building...very lucky.

 

James

[unravelled]

Afternoon all,

Just watched a programme about China's 'Maglev' from the 'Impossible Engineering' series on 'Yesterday', which I recorded during the week. An amazing train, built by German engineers but using British inventions, and capable of regular speeds of 431km/hr (268mph) with a record of 501km/hr (311mph)! All made possible initially by Michael Faraday's discovery of electro-magnetic induction then, much later, an incredible piece of lateral thinking by Professor Eric Laithwaite (aka the 'Father of the Maglev'!) who surmised that if you unrolled a stator and rotor, converting them to linear format, you could make what he called his 'magnetic river'. Sadly he didn't live to see the mechanical and control problems, which beset his prototypes, overcome in this age of super-computers. For those of you who haven't seen it, it runs between Shanghai and its airport, although there is talk of extending all the way to Beijing. The carbon footprint is very low compared to any conventional train as there is no on-board propulsion system, and unlike conventional OHLE trains, only the actual part of the track it is using is electrified as it passes over it. Another plus is longevity as a total lack of friction means no wearing parts! An awesome piece of engineering, well worth googling if you are at all interested!

Kind regards,

Jock.

I watched, and enjoyed, it the other night, and was glad to see Eric Laithwaite getting credit for his part in developing the technology. His 1966 Christmas lectures were a great influence on me, and reinforced my decision to study engineering, though I went for Mechanical, rather that Electrical. I particularly remember the models used to illustrate the travelling wave. It was influential enough that my school had a 3 phase supply installed for the science club to experiment with. I guess everyone did the risk analysis, but I can't see it happening today!

By the time I got to College he had been sidetracked into his gyroscope work, and I saw one of his lectures. One of the demonstrations, that a rotating gyroscope was easier to hold up than a stationary one, was slightly upset by the ability of one of the volunteers, a top rank oarsman, who was able to lift and straightarm the stationary one. 

When I started teaching, I finally managed to make a working linear induction motor out of standard "Nuffield" components.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Physicsman]

There is a report in existence, from sometime in the 70's I think, from sociologists who detected a growing gap between the generations in language skills. It went as far as predicting the development of two English languages. One being that used by the 'educated (?)' older section of the population, the other being a debased form used by the 'general masses'. When I go into town I pass through an estate which has a small park where all the local kids congregate and I sometimes fear that that prediction has come true when I hear what amounts to a bunch of 'Vicky Pollard's' in conversation with a mix of patois (based on Jamaican slang) and buzzwords. I get this horrible feeling that if someone spoke to me I'd need a translator to find out what they were asking. Still, it would make for good practice if and when the human race should make contact with an alien species and I must admit, it is funny when 4-year-old Lucy sticks her bum out and does her Bart Simpson impression and invites you to "bite my shorts!"

 

Regards

 

Bill

 

Yes, Bill. These are the immigrants who've moved from Barrow to Morecambe!!

 

Jeff

[Mythocentric]

Yes, Bill. These are the immigrants who've moved from Barrow to Morecambe!!

 

Jeff

 

An interesting thought Jeff. As an immigrant myself (from Blackburn) I was pleasantly surprised that I could converse with the natives without difficulty. However, it probably explains why I've never dared to venture further north than Hest Bank since I arrived! Shades of Stranger in a Strange Land?

 

Regards

 

Bill

[emt_911]

Grumpy old sod time! Having BA's in English and English Literature and a great love of literature and the English language in general I hate 'buzzwords'! Recently the most cringe worthy (to me) is the growing use of 'Phot'. We all know what a photograph is, and we all know that the common abbreviation is photo, but why abbreviate an abbreviation, especially when it turns up as a 'phot'? Is the standard of literacy falling as is claimed in some quarters or are we just plain lazy? So, whats your favourite cringe-maker and why!

 

Regards

 

Bill

Although I never progressed beyond CSE English, I also prefer the language to be spoken properly.

 

The two things that I cringe at are the word 'like' being used where it isn't required and when sentences are started with the word 'so'. Using the word so to start a sentence becomes frustrating especially when I hear it on the news being used by reporters and academics.

[Physicsman]

My pet hate is the inappropriate use of the word "well". Have a listen to news correspondents when they are introduced from the main studio presenter:

 

Presenter: "And we go over to Fred Blogs who is outside the courtroom...."

 

Correspondent: "Well, the accused...."

 

Once you notice it, it is VERY irritating! And I reckon over 90% of correspondents start their report in this manner.

 

Jeff

[PeterBB]

The spoken, and for that matter the written, English is getting worse.  Then real cringe for me is the increasing use of 'different to' instead of the correct 'different from'.  It grates me so much that I normally miss the next spoken sentence.  

 

Staying within the context, to teach English at the school I attended, the English degree had to have been awarded via an Oxford English degree course.  This led to a rather amusing situation when the school employed an Australian with an English degree from Oxford but with an accent.  His saving grace was his cricket coaching.

 

In teaching, or rather in marking essays and written work, we were told not to correct spelling and to mark in pencil so that the marking could be rubbed out!  This was extremely frustrating and once led me to write at the end of a script with so many miss-spelt words (corrected in pencil) to a final remark of 'Please rewrite neatly and correctly if you want this graded'.  This has also brought back the memory of returning - unmarked -  scripts that used 'texting' rather than the English language.  I rest my case on the state of the decline of the English language.

 

Peter

Edited June 27, 2015 by PeterBB

[Donw]

Although I never progressed beyond CSE English, I also prefer the language to be spoken properly.

 

The two things that I cringe at are the word 'like' being used where it isn't required and when sentences are started with the word 'so'. Using the word so to start a sentence becomes frustrating especially when I hear it on the news being used by reporters and academics.

 

Pet hates of Marion too

 

Don

[Mythocentric]

Although I never progressed beyond CSE English, I also prefer the language to be spoken properly.

 

The two things that I cringe at are the word 'like' being used where it isn't required and when sentences are started with the word 'so'. Using the word so to start a sentence becomes frustrating especially when I hear it on the news being used by reporters and academics.

 

Guilty as charged in post #1049! The thing is I have no objection to everyday colloquial English and certainly don't expect everyone to speak Queen's English as was once a requirement for a front job at the BBC. Just make an effort! The BA's came about because English and Literature were required studies as part of my time at RCA. As a kid I was broad Lanky and can still 'talk like th'ewd-timer's wit best on'um' usually to amuse (and frequently baffle) my granddaughters. What I do object to are those buzzwords like 'phot' (pauses for quick cringe) which seem to be a result of texting, as Peter mentions, and are often used to make the user appear 'trendy'. The Americans used to refer to them as 'now-people', a derogatory term intended to throw their misuse of the language back at them! Confession time! When I text anyone I always spell it out in full so I guess that makes me just another grumpy old misfit!

 

Regards

 

Bill

 

PS: If you are going to mangle the language by abbreviating 'photograph' to 'phot' why not spell it 'fot'? That saves typing a whole letter guys!

 

PPS: I wish I hadn't thought of that now because my granddaughter Sara will be visiting soon and she always likes to take a look at my latest fotografs while she's here! Dammit!

Edited June 27, 2015 by Mythocentric

[Jock67B]

Evening all,

Dave(unravelled), I also did Mechanical with Thermodynamics but there was a fair amount of Electrical Engineering included in the course! I too loved the Laithwaite Christmas Lectures, and consider him to be a largely unsung hero!

With me, I hate LOL which is increasingly popular in e-mails - it meant 'lots of love' when I was at junior school, along with 'swalk' on the envelope of notes to girlfriends!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Clive Mortimore]

Ah the popper use of words in the English language and the spelling of such words, correct grammar is wot some peeps call it. Please remember this was a new way of thinking from the late 19th century when the up and coming merchant/middle class needed a standard form of communication so they could trade with each other more effectively. English has always been spoken in many differing forms where people from one village may not understand what the next village is saying. It has always changed not just new words but how existing words are used. Something’s get on my nerves, using "So" when answering is one. I do feel like singing the rest of the song when I hear it "So, a needle pulling thread, La, a note to follow So, Ti, a drink with jam and bread and that brings us back to Do-oh-oh-oh"

 

I have dyslexia so have a problem with written English, both writing it myself and reading it. I have been told off, criticised, had the pee taken out of me for my spelling all my life by managers, peers, teachers and even my own kids. I now have an answer for anyone who decides to pick on my spelling or English in general, “Did you understand what I was saying? Good, because the problem lies with you not me."

 

You can have all the rules you like, but if the person you are communicating with makes you understand him/her and she/him understands you then who needs rules.

[Jock67B]

Clive,

Our No1 son had dyslexia (admittedly a mild case) but the public school he attended in Bideford (with the help of his grandad!) had a couple of specialist teachers on the staff. His spelling is still poor but at least the English is good! I think he puts 'Word' to good use as a tool to help iron out the problem. You have my sympathies because I know how cruel children can be when they fasten on to such a disability!

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Anotheran]

Having been born in Llanelli I started school in Alness (just north of Inverness) and after a year there moved to Corpach near Fort William. A further two years and we moved to Orpington in Kent at which time I had what my grandmother called a lovely Scottish accent. When you're seven and in Orpington, it's not "lovely", so I lost it very quickly. Just two years later and we moved again, this time to Stafford. Of course, long vowels and "plimsoles" were now a target for derision. So the Orpington accent went the way of the Scottish one. After eight years in Stafford I moved to London for university, and stayed the for work. I now have a non-descript accent with short vowels but the rest predominantly from the south east (not Estuary of course!) with the odd bit of East London dropping of letters when I'm getting tired. But I now really wish I had a Welsh accent, or a Scottish one!

 

If everyone spoke the same then the world would be a boring place, and for centuries schools tried to make everyone speak the same (indeed in Welsh schools until even after my parent's time fingers were caned and pupils were forced to wear the Welsh Knot if they dared to speak in their native language). I think it's brilliant that the BBC dropped the requirement for Received Pronunciation. RP is defined in the OED as the standard pronunciation of English... but to me you need to define standard as it's only around 3% of the population that speak with RP!

 

English is a very young language, and young languages change quickly. Historically once any language can be identified as a separate tongue it changes roughly 50% of its words in the first thousand years, and then about 25% in the next thousand. Given that English is only about half way through it's second millennium it should still be changing at around 3-4% per century. That's normal linguistic change. Just look at the differences between Chaucer, to Shakespeare to now. Welsh as an example is much much older and a book that was written in Welsh at the time of Chaucer uses extremely similar language to one written today (obviously missing words for new things that weren't around in Chaucer's time), but that's because Welsh is a good way into its third millennium.

 

Of course, new technologies lead to imported words. The Roman's brought glazed windows to many parts of their world, and German, French and Welsh use almost the same word, imported from Latin (the early English obviously didn't think much of glazing and instead adopted the Norse wendeg - a hole in the wall). Advances made by English speaking people brought many other things to many places, and their words went with them. But these are all new words for new things, additions to, not changes to language.

 

Communication technology is changing the way in which languages change. The fact that everyone now has access to American TV and films means that American English is quickly becoming standard English everywhere it is spoken. Though strangely that means that some words that were old English are now becoming new English because having crossed the Atlantic they didn't change there, but did here. Pants instead of trousers, or vest instead of waistcoat for example. In both cases the American words are what was spoken here four centuries ago!

 

The above is all of interest to me, so you'd think that I welcome change in language. Well I do... and I don't. Because of modern technological communication change now seems not to cause differences to increase, but rather everyone to sound more the same. Even without the American influence and the BBC dropping RP, people are gradually talking more and more the same. Old dialects are reducing and accents are decreasing. I think as that happens the world becomes a duller place linguistically and much cultural inheritance becomes endangered. So yes, people should speak correctly... but that doesn't mean they should all speak the same. As long as someone can make themselves understood they should be proud of their dialects and accents. I wish I had been, and retained it!

 

Now that's all a bit heavy for me at gone 01:00... so I'm going to go to bed (as I've probably put anyone else reading this to sleep!) 

 

Gute nacht (as would be said in that almost English language from across the channel), or Nos da (in that far older language from across Offa's Dyke)

Neil

[Donington Road]

Communication technology is changing the way in which languages change. The fact that everyone now has access to American TV and films means that American English is quickly becoming standard English everywhere it is spoken. Though strangely that means that some words that were old English are now becoming new English because having crossed the Atlantic they didn't change there, but did here. Pants instead of trousers, or vest instead of waistcoat for example. In both cases the American words are what was spoken here four centuries ago!

 

My daughter is currently travelling worldwide and has been astounded by the number of foreign speaking people that want to speak to her (in their Americanised English) so that they can learn and better their English language skills.  She says that their main gripe being that American English is nowhere near as nice sounding as properly spoken English English.  Her funniest encounter was the three days she had with an American lady who could not grasp hardly anything my daughter said.  She had to talk very slowly word by word much to the amusement of her fellow companions, yet my daughter understood the lady very well.

 

What really annoys me when engaging in conversation is people talking grunting text speak, just downright lazy and rude IMO, and it is not always the younsters that do it.

[Donw]

Aside from accents and speaking styles I find the young of today give me the impression that either they don't have much to say or they are unable to express themselves. A lot sounds like the repetition of 'hip' phrases that are not there own thoughts. The concern of course is whether the elders thought the same about me when I was young.

 

I hope not and the fact that in my teens and early twenties I was an avid reader may be a factor.

 

Don

[Allegheny1600]

Of course, new technologies lead to imported words. The Roman's brought glazed windows to many parts of their world, and German, French and Welsh use almost the same word, imported from Latin (the early English obviously didn't think much of glazing and instead adopted the Norse wendeg - a hole in the wall). Advances made by English speaking people brought many other things to many places, and their words went with them. But these are all new words for new things, additions to, not changes to language.

Hi Neil, All,

Spot on mate!

On our travels in Greece, we attempt to integrate with the locals as much as possible while learning the language and it is amusing to listen to them talking rapidly to each other in Greek and suddenly "English" words pop into the conversation like "Television" or "Supermarket" for example. Surprisingly though, they have evolved a lot of new Greek words for some things despite the language being the oldest documented Indo-European language - 34 centuries worth!

Even more surprising of course is that many "English" words are actually Greek anyway!

Cheers,

John.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Well, summer must have arrived as I just heard the Red Arrows fly over.

 

Couldn't see them because of the low cloud though.

[Physicsman]

Aside from accents and speaking styles I find the young of today give me the impression that either they don't have much to say or they are unable to express themselves. A lot sounds like the repetition of 'hip' phrases that are not there own thoughts. The concern of course is whether the elders thought the same about me when I was young.

 

I hope not and the fact that in my teens and early twenties I was an avid reader may be a factor.

 

Don

 

I don't think much has changed over the years, Don. Despite the "improvements" in exam results (as the tests have got easier) and the "increased numbers" at University (don't get me started on that one, especially degree qualifications), a similar proportion of articulate and interested young people still exist. At one level they are better informed than ever, with the globalisation of information via the internet. Conversely, too much available information can cause overload.

 

If you find the right topics to talk about it's surprising how much younger people can have to say.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Well, summer must have arrived as I just heard the Red Arrows fly over.

 

Couldn't see them because of the low cloud though.

 

About time you lot "darn Sarth" got some cloud! It's been dull up here, seemingly, for weeks. Nice to see the golden orb in the sky!

 

Jeff

[Peter Kazmierczak]

And a Merry Christmas to you too Jeff.