cornish trains jez Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Power districts. Given the size and complexity of the station throat I'd say some power district kit would be a worthwhile investment. Have you given any thought about how you're going to control/signal the layout? If you're going down the road of interlocking etc then think about block detection and where you'll cut track/put wires for each block. Would be awesome to have a NX panel for this! Lol Cheers, Paul Hi Paul, First of all, apologies for the late reply. I'm unsure how I'm going to signal the layout but in terms of turnout control, I'm going to go for the traditional panel with the plan drawn out and switches with LED lights indicating the route selected. Probably go for the Cobalt slow action turnout motors as they seem to have good reviews and are relatively quiet. Best regards, Jeremy Edited March 7, 2016 by cornish trains jez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cornish trains jez Posted March 7, 2016 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2016 Bit of track laid tonight on the final double slip. First common crossing has been fixed into place and the stock rail added. I've also laid some more bullhead sleepered straight track to link it to the previous turnout. Couple of photos with progress: Best regards, Jeremy 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Looking good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hi Jeremy, You work is looking superb and I don't think anyone can question your commitment with this project... perhaps your sanity but never your commitment How much more track do you have to build before it's all done? Good luck with the remaining track work Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hi Jeremy, You work is looking superb and I don't think anyone can question your commitment with this project... perhaps your sanity but never your commitment How much more track do you have to build before it's all done? Good luck with the remaining track work Cheers Lee Hi Lee, Many thanks, I think I have gone past insanity now! I still have the track leading up to platforms 11 to 18 to lay plus the motorail sidings. However these are less complicated and don't have so many turnouts. Once I've finished the last slip (only 3 remaining to build) the rest of the track should come together quite quickly. Then I'll move onto wiring and finally get a loco moving around the station! Can't wait for that last bit! Best regards, Jeremy 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted March 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2016 Splitting up the layout into separate DCC 'power districts' not only gives you separate DCC buses, but also provides separation, so a derailment of a down train, causing a short, will not stop an up train on a different district, for example. If you are thinking about using DCC to control the points and signals, these should also be in their own DCC district, again so that a short on the layout does not stop you changing a point to clear the short (the most common cause of a short being an incorrectly set point). Of course, as a member of Merg, I would advocate a proper accessory control bus, like the Merg CBus. This is a real 2-way bus, allowing proper feedback from ToTIs (Train on track indicators) and even RFID readers for train identification. CBus modules are available for driving all types of point motors (solenoid, stalling motor and servos), and switches and LEDs, so a control panel only needs a 4 wire connection to the layout. Couple the CBus with a computer running JMRI and you can also have your display panel on a TV or computer monitor, or even a tablet or mobile phone. For point motors, you should also look at using servos. These will give you smooth, quiet slow-motion operation at a fraction of the cost of Cobalts, etc. Four servos, four Merg servo mounts and the basic Merg Servo4 control kit works out at about £5 per point. From your track plan on the first page, I counted about 30 turnouts (slips count as 2 each). This could save you around £300. Good luck with this layout, I really look forward to seeing it in action, Ian Morgan Hampshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Splitting up the layout into separate DCC 'power districts' not only gives you separate DCC buses, but also provides separation, so a derailment of a down train, causing a short, will not stop an up train on a different district, for example. If you are thinking about using DCC to control the points and signals, these should also be in their own DCC district, again so that a short on the layout does not stop you changing a point to clear the short (the most common cause of a short being an incorrectly set point). Of course, as a member of Merg, I would advocate a proper accessory control bus, like the Merg CBus. This is a real 2-way bus, allowing proper feedback from ToTIs (Train on track indicators) and even RFID readers for train identification. CBus modules are available for driving all types of point motors (solenoid, stalling motor and servos), and switches and LEDs, so a control panel only needs a 4 wire connection to the layout. Couple the CBus with a computer running JMRI and you can also have your display panel on a TV or computer monitor, or even a tablet or mobile phone. For point motors, you should also look at using servos. These will give you smooth, quiet slow-motion operation at a fraction of the cost of Cobalts, etc. Four servos, four Merg servo mounts and the basic Merg Servo4 control kit works out at about £5 per point. From your track plan on the first page, I counted about 30 turnouts (slips count as 2 each). This could save you around £300. Good luck with this layout, I really look forward to seeing it in action, Ian Morgan Hampshire Hi, Thanks for your advice. Turnout and signal control is an area where I have absolutely no knowledge at all so any advice I can get is great. I'll certainly look into servos. Are they fairly easy to wire? The attraction with Cobalts is that they are very simple to wire up. I'm still unsure on whether to go analogue or DCC with the turnouts/signalling as I'm still getting to grips with DCC for the locos. I don't want to over complicate things if I can help it. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted March 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2016 Servos come with a length of three-core cable and a 'standard' connector that will plug into a servo 'controller'. The simple Merg Servo4 board can take up to 4 servos plugged into it, and you connect 4 on-off switches and a power supply to its input terminals to control the servos. You do need to 'configure' the Servo4 to set up how far each servo moves in each direction, and how fast you want it to go. This can be done by plugging in a servoset box, or a computer. Once configured, these are no longer required. The Merg servo mount can be fitted with up to 4 micro switches, so they can be used to switch frog polarity, and to feed back the point positions to your displays. If you go for CBus, the Servo4 can be replaced with a CANServo8 module, which can drive up to 8 servos. All the setting up and operation of this module is done by sending CBus 'Events' across the bus. These can come from a computer attached to the bus, or by switches attached to a CBus switch module (eg. CANACE8) in a control panel. There are lots of ways to skin this particular cat, and lots of CBus modules available, such as the CANMIO that can control a mixture of inputs, outputs and servos in a single module. It all sounds frightening at first, but when you see that a single 'event' can cause multiple things to happen, and various 'events' can be made to make the same thing happen, you will understand how flexible and powerful the system can be when it comes to route setting and displays. For a layout of this complexity, you really need to attach a computer to configure all the CBus modules - ie. 'teaching' modules what events to create when switches are operated, and what to do when they see certain events on the bus. Once configured, the computer is no longer required. Most CBus modules can be configured using on-board switches, but this is only really practical to do on smaller layouts. I would be happy to meet up some time to discuss options, and demonstrate a similar control system I am working on for the Basingstoke club. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Servos come with a length of three-core cable and a 'standard' connector that will plug into a servo 'controller'. The simple Merg Servo4 board can take up to 4 servos plugged into it, and you connect 4 on-off switches and a power supply to its input terminals to control the servos. You do need to 'configure' the Servo4 to set up how far each servo moves in each direction, and how fast you want it to go. This can be done by plugging in a servoset box, or a computer. Once configured, these are no longer required. The Merg servo mount can be fitted with up to 4 micro switches, so they can be used to switch frog polarity, and to feed back the point positions to your displays. If you go for CBus, the Servo4 can be replaced with a CANServo8 module, which can drive up to 8 servos. All the setting up and operation of this module is done by sending CBus 'Events' across the bus. These can come from a computer attached to the bus, or by switches attached to a CBus switch module (eg. CANACE8) in a control panel. There are lots of ways to skin this particular cat, and lots of CBus modules available, such as the CANMIO that can control a mixture of inputs, outputs and servos in a single module. It all sounds frightening at first, but when you see that a single 'event' can cause multiple things to happen, and various 'events' can be made to make the same thing happen, you will understand how flexible and powerful the system can be when it comes to route setting and displays. For a layout of this complexity, you really need to attach a computer to configure all the CBus modules - ie. 'teaching' modules what events to create when switches are operated, and what to do when they see certain events on the bus. Once configured, the computer is no longer required. Most CBus modules can be configured using on-board switches, but this is only really practical to do on smaller layouts. I would be happy to meet up some time to discuss options, and demonstrate a similar control system I am working on for the Basingstoke club. Hi, It would be useful to meet please if you have some spare time and Basingstoke is only an hour away from me so it would be time well spent for me to see how the system is connected, configured and operated. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted March 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2016 Jeremy, I have sent you a PM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Good evening, Small update tonight with "and here's a bit more track that I've laid tonight"! Another stock rail added to the double slip and also the track leading into platform 12. Dapol are once again offering their 86's at a bargain price, so I decided to pick up two more. They will of course be resprayed. Best regards, Jeremy 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Nice Jeremy, could you not have one of those as 86502 Lloyds List with Railfreight General markings? Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Like this? You also have this option of course as shown on 86505. It seems looking through google/flickr that 86503 virtually lived there given the amount of photographs of it at Euston. Edited March 11, 2016 by RBE 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Spot on guys! 86505 will be my choice however the bottom grey section on the Dapol loco has a greeny look to it so it will probably need a respray. The railfreight loco will certainly add some variety too. I'm planning some Rfd class 90's too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
87023Velocity Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Another class 86 livery variation would be 86426 in its version of Electric Blue. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Another class 86 livery variation would be 86426 in its version of Electric Blue. Cheers Simon I do like that one. However I've always fancied one in the original livery, with the original headcode arrangement, like this one at Euston, taken 1966. https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5622143900/in/photolist-9yNXvw-jUW5vK-5v4xD6-jUQnTv-jUQo2g-a1GJua-a1KBuU-a1KBpw-a1GJsF-aDpmXE-j1UBm6-a333sE-aLtgZD-aVHhZz-qYzjAp-jDprDi-vHUQfz-vZLM3W-w1NAZ8-vHKHgS-vHMorq-v4owgG-vY5Cbs-vHSVNc-vHMa1f-vHMoNY-vHNbsy-iNLcuD-jWxHav-qTquLo-CdBwZm-jUTf9D-dHB5vP-jP8fDT-qZ49Tj-fPgiHg-9v28Qr-nvdskx-9v5bQ3-aLtgNT-aKh7AP-4yntW4-jWTxBb-dNMSr2-e13HYR-kC3Zss-9WJcsM-bmEhPp-aB13Zh-aBzekc Best regards, Jeremy Edited March 11, 2016 by cornish trains jez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I do like that one. However I've always fancied one in the original livery, with the original headcode arrangement, like this one at Euston, taken 1966. https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5622143900/in/photolist-9yNXvw-jUW5vK-5v4xD6-jUQnTv-jUQo2g-a1GJua-a1KBuU-a1KBpw-a1GJsF-aDpmXE-j1UBm6-a333sE-aLtgZD-aVHhZz-qYzjAp-jDprDi-vHUQfz-vZLM3W-w1NAZ8-vHKHgS-vHMorq-v4owgG-vY5Cbs-vHSVNc-vHMa1f-vHMoNY-vHNbsy-iNLcuD-jWxHav-qTquLo-CdBwZm-jUTf9D-dHB5vP-jP8fDT-qZ49Tj-fPgiHg-9v28Qr-nvdskx-9v5bQ3-aLtgNT-aKh7AP-4yntW4-jWTxBb-dNMSr2-e13HYR-kC3Zss-9WJcsM-bmEhPp-aB13Zh-aBzekc Best regards, Jeremy Begone these thoughts of Satan! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Bridge Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Hi Jeremy Martin (Templot) Wynne is looking for large Templot projects with some track building, can you help him? http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2859&forum_id=1&jump_to=20131#p20131 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 Hi Jeremy Martin (Templot) Wynne is looking for large Templot projects with some track building, can you help him? http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2859&forum_id=1&jump_to=20131#p20131 Hi, I'll see if I can send him a PM. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Just stumbled across this absolute gem of a photo. I've never seen the station from this angle before! https://www.flickr.com/photos/photograph_provider/4422483600/in/photolist-7JNoif-ofZpNz-fJqYZ-zMZcuh-aeXsEF-pRgaer-69eE5D-9sRKtx-bxmSDD-apzno2-c26T2L-pZp4wC-oxugMP-9sUKew-51hEAa-51mUHh-9CZiCy-4nhhox-9WzUFX-pqPDoF-9gGh1v-9sUGmo-92jgF-apA3mn-9sUMYW-71h9r6-acA61p-b8sSn-oJLUBq-c26WgL-apCJwU-jUg6Zx-pHGNRP-5Kk49P-avAhA9-71m8sh-5WXHCc-gjoWAK-nJePn4-5PDhXS-nrKDe2-e5kjXp-cF9PVo-4m5R7W-drLG1f-8HVkU8-km1EU-ragjyd-pjVkAo-8gFVqe 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy750 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hi, I only found this thread yesterday, I am building my stock of 86's at the moment, are you doing the respray/modelling yourself, I noted on one of your intercity branded versions there is no HI Headlight fitted, was the cut off and filled? Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hi, I only found this thread yesterday, I am building my stock of 86's at the moment, are you doing the respray/modelling yourself, I noted on one of your intercity branded versions there is no HI Headlight fitted, was the cut off and filled? Cheers Dave Hi Dave, Thanks for looking in. The headlight was removed with a knife and then sanded down to finish with the small hole remaining filled in with plastic filler. The resprays are the superb handy work of Cav (RBE on rmweb). I'm hoping to persuade him to do a few more for me! Are you building a WCML based layout? Best regards, Jeremy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy750 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hi Dave, Thanks for looking in. The headlight was removed with a knife and then sanded down to finish with the small hole remaining filled in with plastic filler. The resprays are the superb handy work of Cav (RBE on rmweb). I'm hoping to persuade him to do a few more for me! Are you building a WCML based layout? Best regards, Jeremy Hi Jeremy, Really just got back into modelling after selling all my fathers old stock, I had a couple of Farish 90's and a TPM 87 kit plus some of his older 86 conversions for the Farish 87, which I never got around to using (in the late 80's early 90's) So roll on today I saw the Dapol 86's and now have 5 runners and 3 dummy versions, I'm not sure if I want to run blue versions or the sector versions or maybe both!. I have 86902 which has duff lights so I'm thinking of 'fixing' this by taking the headlight and cables off to respray in blue. If this works it could well transform my mainly freight NW England line into a full on 4 track section of WCML. I just wish the Farish 90 and 87 were a better model to be honest, then I would expand my stock with a couple of each. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismears Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Just re-reading this thread now again. What an amazing project. I'm certainly interested in watching it unfold. May I ask what you're planning on using to move the points? With so many and in such a concentration I was wondering if the points would be "thrown" by hand or by motor? Then what method. /chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 Just stumbled across this absolute gem of a photo. I've never seen the station from this angle before! https://www.flickr.com/photos/photograph_provider/4422483600/in/photolist-7JNoif-ofZpNz-fJqYZ-zMZcuh-aeXsEF-pRgaer-69eE5D-9sRKtx-bxmSDD-apzno2-c26T2L-pZp4wC-oxugMP-9sUKew-51hEAa-51mUHh-9CZiCy-4nhhox-9WzUFX-pqPDoF-9gGh1v-9sUGmo-92jgF-apA3mn-9sUMYW-71h9r6-acA61p-b8sSn-oJLUBq-c26WgL-apCJwU-jUg6Zx-pHGNRP-5Kk49P-avAhA9-71m8sh-5WXHCc-gjoWAK-nJePn4-5PDhXS-nrKDe2-e5kjXp-cF9PVo-4m5R7W-drLG1f-8HVkU8-km1EU-ragjyd-pjVkAo-8gFVqe That's a good shot for what you are doing. Really helps visualise the finished model. Hi Dave, Thanks for looking in. The headlight was removed with a knife and then sanded down to finish with the small hole remaining filled in with plastic filler. The resprays are the superb handy work of Cav (RBE on rmweb). I'm hoping to persuade him to do a few more for me! Are you building a WCML based layout? Best regards, Jeremy Yes Jeremy I am keen to get more of your electrics repainted. I do love a WCML loco and the Dapol class 86's are lovely given a bit of a fettle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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