bertiedog Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes the listing for the Farish shows the wooden box they were packed in.....I have one in my hand at the moment, used for years to store model cast lost wax parts etc., just the Hudson Missing! Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 I had not intended to reply in multiple replies about the pilots, the forum is a bit crippled this evening, I posted, but everything simply hung up, so multiples happened as I tried to un-hang the open pages. I think Andy still may have issues with the servers capacity. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 A closer reading of the listing for the Graham Farish admits damage to the front pilot, and the fact it's a tender motor, but I assume with the Pittman motor, I hope not the two pole motor version, which the US importer refused to take deliver of when Farish showed them at the Toy Fair. I think only a very few had the infamous two pole motor, Graham Farish, I was told, contacted Gordon Varney for advice, and ordered the Pittman motors, and did some with tender drive, then changed to a loco mounted motor for the final ones. The bit of advice Gordon omitted was not to bother, as his own, and Mantua, etc., were better made and cheaper!! The later ones with the Pittman and normal chassis, are actually good runners, especially if the wheels are modified to RP-25 standards, the loco is extremely powerful. The price is a buy it now, frankly very high, the usual level is about £100, less if damaged, as it must be said, and admitted by the seller, this one is. Mind you there are the coaches as well. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 This is the Kemtron 280 in the HOn3 10.5mm version, very close to the Brass Betsy from Kemtron and Great Western, the original makers. The brass kit contained various smokestacks and fittings to add to taste. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well, having looked at the loco I have, and then comparing it to the two Graham Farish Hudson's on Ebay, I don't think it the same loco. The body casting looks different in several places and the motor and drive is not the same. Mine has a traverse three pole motor and spur drive. So, any idea's what this one is? I'll strip it down and get some pics of the mech afterwards. The wheels are non-original Romfords. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well, having looked at the loco I have, and then comparing it to the two Graham Farish Hudson's on Ebay, I don't think it the same loco. The body casting looks different in several places and the motor and drive is not the same. Mine has a traverse three pole motor and spur drive. So, any idea's what this one is? I'll strip it down and get some pics of the mech afterwards. The wheels are non-original Romfords. Tom That's not a Farish, at a glance I would have said Varney, but with a TRANSVERSE motor? Exceedingly rare on old HO designs except Stewart Reidpath or Continental makers. It might be a European chassis mated with a Varney or Mantua body. The tender looks like Mantua etc. The fact the wheels have been changed indicates a Euro chassis to my mind, can you take a shot with the body off? Done up with extra super detailing, new valve gear, and a good paint job it would make a good impressive loco, how does it run? Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 The body shell does not appear to exactly match either Varney or Mantua, the sandboxes and domes do not tally, but I do not have a definitive list of earlier bodies, they did many, many variations. I have no list for Roundhouse, but I don't think they made the type. It should be remembered that several continental makers like Marklin and Fleishmann made lots of HO American outline in the early 1950's. I think the chassis and body may well be Fleishmann, especially with the transverse motor. AHM marketed Fleishmann at one point in the States. Although modern Fleishmann usually couple the wheels together with spur gears, the early stuff used the side rods, but with a single spur gear drive from the motor. By the way, the Farish is easy to identify, it splits along the footplate into two halves, upper and lower. Varney and Mantua always, (a risky rule of thumb!) cast their name on the die castings. Bowser and Penn line cast the name, ther bodies can be lead not mazak. There were other makes like Lionel and Gilbert, but this loco is not theirs, it's much better made. My vote for the tender is Mantua, often things were assembled as Frankenstein assemblies, as in the early 1950 imports were either banned, or taxed very heavily to discourage imports. This meant European loco makes were not imported, especially German, until about 1955. So there was a severe shortage of US material over here, which was why Farish got involved, expecting sales from the UK as well as the US. Ultra high import tax and duties kept US made equipment out of the UK, Gordon Varney was most upset about this as he had exported his models to the UK pre-war, Hamblings sold them along with Mantua and Mantua track. But Atlee's government banned any imports due to the countries bankruptcy with the war costs. Also severe exchange control meant importers could not finance imports. Gordon Varney had investigated making UK outline models in 1938, and had talks with Hamblings about marketing a OO GWR King class, but the war stopped it, and the restrictions afterwards finished the plans off. I personally think that Graham Farish got involved with the Hudson after finding out about the Varney plans, he did after all go for a diecast King in his range. The RTR Farish Hudson was better made than most Varney, but then Varney were kits, and Varney expected and indeed urged the buyer to super detail his locos, adding lots of extras and customisations to the basic locomotive. Looking forward to the photo of the naked chassis! Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 I cannot find a decent shot, and have never handled one, but the body does somewhat resemble an AC Gilbert HO loco, the domes match, markers cast on, bell cast on, etc., the original wheels were crude, steam roller and the whole thing rather toy like, but the body may have been transferred, or the chassis altered with the Romford wheels. I do not know what style of motor the Gilbert HO products used. The S scale ran OK, don't know about the HO. As the S scale die cast Gilbert is clearly marked, have a look inside for cast on makers names. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well here is the chassis in all it's glory ! It's definitely made for the body as they are a very good fit, not a bodge. After I lubed it up it ran remarkably well apart from some of the Romfords being wobbly( now there's a surprise !) It seem very smooth and very powerful for such an old mech. It was sold to me as a Grafar but I must agree with you that it's not. Bought it about 10 years ago but never really got around to looking at it before..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well here is the chassis in all it's glory ! It's definitely made for the body as they are a very good fit, not a bodge. After I lubed it up it ran remarkably well apart from some of the Romfords being wobbly( now there's a surprise !) It seem very smooth and very powerful for such an old mech. It was sold to me as a Grafar but I must agree with you that it's not. Bought it about 10 years ago but never really got around to looking at it before..... Phew that is a hell of a motor! AC Gilbert is the make coming to the fore! it is their style, over engineered! The body being that good is a surprise. Any minute makers marks anyway after forensic examination? It might be Fleishmann but they used more brass in gears etc., and theirs had trademarks. It's definetly 1950 + / - a bit. The Romfords should clean up easily, or since it can take 1/8th axles, any other make like Gibson would fit. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 I trust the brass articulated is getting a service!! Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 Not a Gilbert, here is a parts diagram for the Gilbert, body the same but different mechanism. So........ maybe an early Fleishmann? have a look for "Made in US Zone" stamped or cast on anywhere........ Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I trust the brass articulated is getting a service!! Stephen. Naw - it's in my scrapbox ! It's one of a pair of these I bought some years ago, one from Clitherore the other from the US ! Both were in fairly bad shape but I was intending them to become the smallest class of Mallet on my large freelance line - The original plan had been to do a John Allen and convert Sierra 2-6-6-2 to 0-6-6-0 's. Not long afterwards though I came to the conclusion that trying to keep a large fleet of mostly brass steamers in operation in a basement was going to be too much like hard work and as I was getting more interested in realistic operation I moved the period forward 20 years and switched to diesels. Now however, I have a much smaller line, but I built it with 4-axle diesels in mind and 24 inch curves without easements. I'm thinking of backdating it and bringing all my steam locos out of retirement. I'm just at the point of trying to make one of these locos work again so I can test it round the curves. They may become the largest class of loco on my new line ! Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well I've looked high and low all over this loco and can't find a makers name or the like on it. The only things I can find are the numbers p9350 cast into the loco body, p9327 on the tender body and p9377 on the smokebox door. It is massively built. The loco weighs in at 891 grams and the tender is 482 g - that's almost three lb in total ! It does look to be a contemporary of the Farish version of this loco, it's interesting that even then manufactures where duplicating the same prototype, nothing ever changes....... Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 Well I've looked high and low all over this loco and can't find a makers name or the like on it. The only things I can find are the numbers p9350 cast into the loco body, p9327 on the tender body and p9377 on the smokebox door. It is massively built. The loco weighs in at 891 grams and the tender is 482 g - that's almost three lb in total ! It does look to be a contemporary of the Farish version of this loco, it's interesting that even then manufactures where duplicating the same prototype, nothing ever changes....... Tom Well at least all the parts came from the same maker, worth restoring, it is quite well proportioned etc., that motor is massive .......strip, fettle, sand any marks away, add super details......and fix the Romfords. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Sadly it's too big to use on my current line and I have another 5000 or so projects in the pipeline already, so this one is probably going to be scheduled several years after I die....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 Sadly it's too big to use on my current line and I have another 5000 or so projects in the pipeline already, so this one is probably going to be scheduled several years after I die....... Ebay then! Firstly, miss list in O gauge, Then describe as......... "From a deceased estate", "My grandads, so very old ", "I know nothing about it", but it's "very rare", "Comes with coal wagon", "Untested, as I have not any way to do it", :icon_e_wink: "Good condition, but then add the broken steps are in the box", :icon_lol: "low start at £60 pounds", photo on a duvet, out of focus......it will sell well!!!! Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Ebay then! Firstly, miss list in O gauge, Then describe as......... "From a deceased estate", "My grandads, so very old ", "I know nothing about it", but it's "very rare", "Comes with coal wagon", "Untested, as I have not any way to do it", :icon_e_wink: "Good condition, but then add the broken steps are in the box", :icon_lol: "low start at £60 pounds", photo on a duvet, out of focus......it will sell well!!!! Stephen. yes I've seen a few like that, come to think of it I've bought a few listed like that ! Sometimes you can get a bargain from these, sometimes it does turn out to be a load of junk! - but at least the odds are better than the lottery. I think I've only have really bad buy from them - a kit built baggage car that turned out to have been painted with the proverbial tar brush, though I have a few others that the jury is still out on, including a PFM ATSF 1950 class for the grand sum of 59 dollars . The loco was very rough, but I need a spare chassis, but the tender I was hoping to use, but somebody had added a coal load to the oil bunker with cardboard sides. The problem was they seem to have secured the coal load with some sort of hard resin and I can't get it off! Only think that's made any impression on it so far is a propane torch, and that will probably de-solder the rest of the tender first..... I'm in the middle of having a Major dump of unfinished projects and "things I might find a use for one day" on Ebay right now so this might get added to the list, but I was so impressed by the way it ran I'm almost tempted to keep it.... but there lies the path to madness........ Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Going back one level of off-topicness, here are a couple of photos of my two mainline type Boxcabs. The top one is inspirerd somewhat by B&O 50 and is two ATSF steel caboose bodies joined on a Roco chassis. Roof details are mostly MDC, bogies side frames are ofd an old Mehano loco, end steps are MDC and the cab windows are Silver Streak Caboose ones. This loco has a large motor and flywheel, traction tyres on one bogie and is incredibly powerful - once had it pulling 18 brass heavyweight coaches round Calder Northen's layout. The other was built by the late Derick Gibbs and again has a Roco chassis. Body is ATSF steel caboose with MDC boxcab ends. I may rebuild the bogie ends on this soon as the couplers are only glued in place ( there's nothing to fasten them to ) and it keeps pulling them off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 love ,em, tebee.....especially the second one..... what's that wirrybox in the background? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 The rather strange chassis is from one of the original Playcraft North British diesel locos - Early 60's vintage Back in the days when I first got into US locos I saw the MDC Climax - and I thought that's what a Climax loco really looked like. But sadly I could not afford one - so I built my own on this chassis using a B&O C-16 0-4-0st body and a scratch built cab and long bunker. There was however, a slight problem with my choice of chassis - I now had the only supersonic Climax loco in existence ! it's one of the things that turned up when I was sorting out stuff to Ebay - you know I'm rather inclined to keep it as it brings back fond memories...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 I had recognised the motor, a Disteller Joeff, it was of course Jouef that made Playcraft. The motor was very, very advanced design, a coreless type!!, pity the rest was awful.....along with the two pole Farish it must be the strangest motor in model trains,...... unless you know different. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 I've asked elsewhere about my Hudson and the thought there is that it is the pre-war version of the Gilbert /American Flyer one . If you look closely at this ad - http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=23310 you can see something that looks like the end of the motor shaft sticking out just ahead of the firebox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I've had another Ebay purchase that I've never been able to identify – a Berkshire, but missing front and rear trucks. Well looking at the Hudson I thought about this loco which I've always suspected may be a kitbash. Well I compared the boiler of it side by side with the Hudson and I reckon they are one and the same , though much modified and detailed in the case of the Berkshire. That still leave the question, where did the Berkshire chassis come from? I don't recognise it, especially the enclosed worm drive. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 The eight coupled chassis is a Mantua, 100%, as is the boiler as far as I can see, the other chassis does not match any Gilbert I can find, and in detail the Gilbert is a good match for the boiler, bar cab windows. So the spur drive chassis remains an enigma, especially as I do not think Gilbert made many pre-war as such, an they rarely changed designs, featuring chuff noise generators and smoke even on the HO versions. All to big for the shortline of course, the Lindsay 1000hp will be the biggest locomotive on the line. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.