bertiedog Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 A longer look at Gilbert shows two Hudsons were made, and in AC as well as DC, but the DC ones have a conventional motor in both cases, so my bet is now on a Gilbert model on another makers chassis, don't forget the simple US chassis location often means others will fit. I had previously assumed Gilbert were three rail, but it looks like the HO were DC 2 rail. The Gilberts were just Pre-war, but stopped in 1942, resumed after the war. The tender does not look Gilbert, who fitted a chuffer under the coal, which is raised right up to cover it. Some Gilberts are listed as having the smoke unit in the tender, presumably with the smaler switchers to save space. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 regarding the Berkshire.....the boiler doesn't seem to fit Mantua's house style [their locos were apparently 'generic']......the firebox end, with that 'saddle' cast in, differs from Mantua's castings....which usually had a 'box-shaped' lump atop the firebox. As far as I can tell, MAntua had tw 'large' cast boilers.....a parallel one and a conical one.....the latter coming from their Pacifics.....I have the remains of a pacific, and a Hudson [with boxpok wheels!]... note, Mantua added airpumps to the left side.....even though they also had air pump shields on the pilot deck![on the berk and mike] http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/article.php?article=2606 has a lot of pix..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Well at least the Chassis is Mantua, but they made them for 60 years! so maybe variations on the boiler came along, the HO seekers site has an archive of Mantua paperwork on there courtesy of Model Power. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 And now for my next trick, answering a post before it's made, I appear to have received a notification of a post by Shortliner on a reference to the Atlas forum, by email, from RMweb, but there's no post here yet, in case it has gone missing , can Shortliner re-post here please!!!! I think it's in connection with Arbour models and the Hudson/Mantua/Gilbert....... Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 In reference to Arbour they did do a 484, but a distinct taper boiler, and specific type, does not match the more generic boiler in the shots, which matches the Gilbert quite well. Arbour did castings to fit other mechanisms and makes as well as near complete kits. A catalogue is on the Ho seekers site, un-dated. Not much done today, computer broadband visit from Virgin, council collections that did not come, and electrical wiring inspectors not coming despite appointments....wasted day, but some model figure painting done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 I got that notice too. I thought the loco Arbour did was a 2-8-4 Berkshire? My Berkshire is defiantly a kitbash - Gilbert body on Mantua chassis. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 I got that notice too. I thought the loco Arbour did was a 2-8-4 Berkshire? My Berkshire is defiantly a kitbash - Gilbert body on Mantua chassis. Tom The catalogue on Hoseekers shows a 284 and a 484 by Arbour, more than that I do not know....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Excellent deductive work - I did indeed post regarding an Arbour model mentioned on another site - and then deleted it as I realised it was asking about a different loco altogether! - Senelity creeps onwards! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Excellent deductive work - I did indeed post regarding an Arbour model mentioned on another site - and then deleted it as I realised it was asking about a different loco altogether! - Senelity creeps onwards! There I was thinking I was rivalling Paul Mckenna or Ure Geller in answering a post before it was made.........thanks for the explanation, we all do these fingerslips....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Amongst various kits for 40' and 50' boxcars that arrived yesterday from ebay for my Harlem layout, was a brand new in the box MDC unpowered track cleaner boxcab. I will power it using an Underground Ernie chassis, and had a sudden flash of inspiration regarding the trucks. Away back I repowered a bluebox RDC with a spud and cast new sideframes, using the trucks from the orighinal, in fibreglass resin.Couldn't find the tin I used or thye hardner - so a quick trip to the local car bits shop and a small can of resin and a tube of hardner later, dug out the remains of the plasticine I'd used for the mould. Pressed the bogie side into the plasticine several times, mixed the resin, poured and left to set, (note - it is a bit niffy!) This shows the mouldings setting before they were removed from the mould - the backs will be rubbed down on sandpaer, the UE bogie sides will be rubbed on sandpaper to remove the detail and provide a "tooth" and I'll try assembling them with epoxy - if it doesn't work, I'll drill and pin. The upper two photos [cruel enlargements - the original is 37mm x 9mm! ] - have been added to show the initial results of a very quick tidy up and spray over - needs more work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Shortliner, Now, now...... you not meant to show how easy resin casting is, it gives things away!........I use hot pour vinamould for such plain castings, (the term only used to compare to much more complex shapes). Vinamould is available from Ebay easily, and melts at about boiling water temperature, and pours over the master. There are several grades, from very flexible to stiff. Being very flexible, even more than silicon, it pulls away from the master easily, and cleanly, unlike plastercine, and as a mould will take any pourable casting resin. Vinamould was developed for plaster castings, but resin castings are OK as long as the exothermic heat made by the resin as it sets does not affect the mould. In other words small items are OK, but big lumps might melt the mould. The best resins are the specialist types, but fibre glass resin also works well, a tip is to load it yourself, this means adding an inert colour or material like "brass dust", to add body or basic colour. Wood dust can be added to make wood like castings. Suppliers like Tiranti sell "loadings" and colours. Adding loading to resin makes it set with a cleaner surface. With care a vinamould mould will produce dozens of copies, and the material can be reused by re-melting. You mentioned gluing to the resin cast, and there are problems, the "Gorilla" glue will work, superglue usually takes, but 5minute epoxy may not take to it. However to glue a casting to say a brass backing , a coat or resin will do, abrade the brass or provide keying bolt heads etc, and glue with the resin. For bogies the bolster to side joint would really need a brass bolt, and you can cast them in situ in the moulds as the bogie sides are cast, a bit late now for your set, but a tip for next time. I mention brass bolts for a reason, steel may react with some resins and rust set in, brass bolts are better to cast into bogies sides. Also for bogie sides, you can add brass wire into the mould as strengthening, and cast brass bearing blocks into place as well. On the Lindsay 1000hp switcher, I have already made a set of vinamould moulds of the lost wax EMD cast frames they made, for future use. Most lost wax items can be copied in vinamould.......use brass loaded resin, and they look just like the real thing! Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Thanks for that, Stephen, which colour Vinamold would be bst for the purpose - not sure that the plastic sides of the bogie would appreciate having hot mould material poured over it though! I might have to manage with the plasticine! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Thanks for that, Stephen, which colour Vinamold would be best for the purpose - not sure that the plastic sides of the bogie would appreciate having hot mould material poured over it though! I might have to manage with the plasticine! The red Vinamold is more flexible, some suppliers call their version "natural", and the yellow colour is harder. The two types can be mixed to give an intermediate flex.(And all makes mix as well) The melt is 170 deg c, pours at 140 deg c, so it will affect some plastic, but backing with brass plate will protect a bogie side frame, it heats but also disperses the heat quickly. The first pour can be a thin skin, let it cool, and then pour more, it will fuse with the skin. Best do a test with scrap plastic before wasting an original master. Vinamold contains release agents in itself. It can stand most resins, but not ultra thin types with hydorcarbon thinners added, and it does not like toluene or similar thinners near it. Vinamold is great for plaster surfaces like rock, and road surfaces like granite sets, and fine architectural gingerbread details for buildings are easy to mass produce in dental plaster. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Thought I try an experiment - rubbed down the side of a spare UE bogie and put some Araldite Rapid on it, dropped the bogie casting on top. It seems to work - the copper reflections are because that bit of track is glued to a bit of copper clad - the basis of an experimental traverser! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I've used the gray(natural) Vinamould before, but I found for making castings from plastic items a two part mix mould worked better. Forget the name of it now but I got it from Glasplies of Southport who I just discover, now have their own web site ! http://www.glasplies.co.uk/ - they were one of those old fashioned companies, with a huge great warehouse and you would go into the trade counter and someone would slowly emerge from the depths..... They also used to do resins at about half the price of anyone else especially if you bought large quantities, sadly I can't find the moulding material I used on the website though. They do do Vinamould at £4.50 per kg One slight problem though - the sideframes that come with the track cleaner are 1880's vintage coach frames, not really the right thing for a loco - though I'm sure there's a prototype for it somewhere..... If you look at them what they are is a wood beam at the top and cast iron mountings for the axle boxes bolted on. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 I have two of the powered boxcabs, so if it came down to it, I could take castings from the bogies on those, but I doubt too many people will know the difference if it has the wrong externals on the UE bogies - unless they have read this thread, of course! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Not bad at all, and from a plasticine mould very good! The only type I found impossible in HO were archbar, the bars sections are too small to take the strain. Most other types are OK. With archbar trucks the solution was to add fuse wire or brass fine wire to the mould before pouring, in all the sections of thin bar. The other way was lost wax in brass..................uhh!, but I did have success with injection moulding black nylon into metal loaded resin moulds, but the undercut problem may strike, and nylon is impossible to paint or glue later on. Makes good bogies sideframes though, in black or very deep brown nylon. The injector is the Colin Binnie type, a single cylinder, with a heating element in the nose end, and a very large lever to drive the piston! I am musing about using it to make P4 sleepers complete with scale chairs at the moment, but the mould is complex, in brass and steel, not resin. I would like to try ABS but the temperature is higher, and the plastic deteriorates in the simple injector, you have to inject only the correct amount, and the force required is high, it would need a hydraulic ram. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 Back to the new layout, shot of the Lindsay 1000hp, now in working order for running in, before a strip to add all the fine detailing, standing on the new base for the Stewartstown Locomotive shed. This comes out at 14 inches, a bit more than scale, 12 inches, to allow two locos in it, and 2.2 inch wide at the base, the pine, bass and oak wood is all cut out, but the track is to go in first tonight, on wooden sleeper track with planked floor. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 14, 2010 Author Share Posted March 14, 2010 A bit of track and frame work done for the locomotive shed, the main posts erected, I about to add the battens and top beams. the track surface is dead flat, sanded with block, so the flatbottom rail will be glued on to the top. PC sleeper will be used up to the join as the track be come flush tarmac to cross the main road. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 These are the shots I am working from for the Loco shed building, I am curious about the roof finishing, it's currently covered in bituminous cloth/sand shingles or moulded surface from appearance, but I would assume was once wood shingles in the past, which would look a bit more period. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 A couple of shots of the shed woodwork,so far about 150 pieces, the windows and door are to be cut in after assembly, the far side to board first,quite a lot of sanding and sealing. The wood is to be painted white, very thin coats over wire wool finish on the sealer. The glue used is PVA/superglue combination, a quick grab and joint filler from the PVA. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Further on the boxcab, some possibly suitable sideframes in brass, equalised pedestal tender frames, but very like the type under the Boxcab, bidding on ebay for them. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Frames on the way from US Ebay, I hope the right wheel base, they could be shortened a bit with a saw cut in the middle and re-silver soldering back together. Very near match to the types on the IR boxcabs, and in cast lost wax brass..... Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Not too bad a match I think, not going to find closer match truck easily,Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Oh, yes, very nice! Now if I could just trouble you for some resin castings....... about a dozen would be good........ [ only joking, but they are very nice indeed, and as you say, possibly the closest match you are likely to find] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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