Chester Northgate Station (Layout of a Lifetime)maybe

[5050]

I too have just found this thread and found it very interesting - and with great photos of excellent modelling.  I am a Wrexham lad and lots of my trainspotting days were spent at Chester General in the late 50's - alongside Tony Wright I am sure, as we have some mutual 'experiences' that we share, even though I didn't know him at the time.  I only visited Northgate once, probably some time in the 60's, and this was via the GC from Wrexham Central in order to visit the Chester MRC Exhibition (by DMU) which had, by then, moved from the Town Hall to rooms on Northgate platform.  What I do remember is seeing a D11 'Director' from the Western Region train heading into General, probably my first Eastern 'namer' (didn't see that many at all!) and I can possibly work out which one it was from my old 'Combine' that I still treasure.  Regarding locos, my memories of Wrexham Exchange and Central are of C13 and Standard later 84xxxx tanks on virtually all trains although there was a regular J39 goods working at one time which must have come via the 'Northagte Line'.

 

Another memory of travelling from Wrexham Central is a Derby DMU in Green with Whiskers with roof boards stating that it was 'The 1000th' to be built.  Sadly I can't remember any date to tie in with this but no later than early 60's.

 

The Coaling Tower looks to be identical to the one Vernon scratch built in brass for 'Retford' about which he wrote an article in MRJ around 2003 complete with a working drawing.  I wonder where Worsley Works obtained their working drawing to produce the kit?  Perhaps t-b-g might have more info?

 

My late brother-in-law went to the Teacher Training College where he qualified and discovered the sport of Fencing in which he went on to be a well known individual.

 

I, along with my friend Bryan, will in all probability be coming to Llangollen mid-June for the Patriot Society Members Day.  Carrog will definitely be on the agenda.  I believe that one of my Uncles worked there before the war but can't be sure of any finer detail sadly.

Edited April 30, 2016 by 5050

[t-b-g]

 

 

The Coaling Tower looks to be identical to the one Vernon scratch built in brass for 'Retford' about which he wrote an article in MRJ around 2003 complete with a working drawing.  I wonder where Worsley Works obtained their working drawing to produce the kit?  Perhaps t-b-g might have more info?

 

 

 

Sorry, I can't help with that one but I will ask Vernon when I see him (if the old memory works).

[gismorail]

Thanks for your memories all good stuff and I do remember attending a show at Northgate Station. The club had a layout called Chestergate if I remember correctly sure I've got some pictures somewhere will try to dig them out. 

Interesting about J39 on freight to Wrexham Central any further information that you can remember would be of great interest. 

Cheers 

[5050]

Thanks for your memories all good stuff and I do remember attending a show at Northgate Station. The club had a layout called Chestergate if I remember correctly sure I've got some pictures somewhere will try to dig them out. 

Interesting about J39 on freight to Wrexham Central any further information that you can remember would be of great interest. 

Cheers 

Yes, I remember Chestergate, it was based on one of Cyril Freezer's designs i think?  A double track circuit with a terminus in the centre at a higher level.  One thing that sticks in my mind is a graveyard built on a near vertical slope!

 

I can possibly dig out a number(s) for the J39 from my Combine as I didn't see many so there won't be many underlined.

[gismorail]

I've been busy getting the loco depot ready for the Bala Lake Model Railway show at the end of May. It's strange thing about offering a layout for a show even if you think there's ' not much to do'  loads of jobs suddenly crawl from beneath the baseboards   

The biggest task has been getting locomotives chipped and weathered and it's surprising how much work is involved as well as getting some rolling stock prepared all be that there's not a great deal for this particular layout. I have  gone for kadee couplings which work well in my experience but considering NEM's boxes are supposed to the fitted to rolling stock to a standard, in reality there are many height differences. I have found that Dapol wagons suffer from serious 'droop'  in the coupling department     so I have used three link couplings and these wagons will have to have barrier wagons fitted with Kadee's at one end. The loco's that will be employed in shunting operations have had Kadee's fitted and the remaining will be fitted at a later date, in reality there will look better without couplings as they will just be ' on shed' 

 

So here are a few photographs to show progress to date:

 

C13 no: 67436 and N5 no: 69362 on their home depot as the early shift have a chat

 

    

A view from the other side of the turntable

 

84001 has just come on shed and takes on water ready for it's next duty

 

N5 no: 69281 shunts grain hoppers from Northgate Brewary

 

Robinson 04 no: 63598 a loco from Gorton shed on depot for servicing this loco was a regular visitor to Northgate 

 

Another Gorton Locomotive B1 no: 61265 being turned having brought in a 'Race Day Special' from Manchester. 

 

N5 69281 moves off the water tower 

 

So that's progress to date still got further stock to finish and scenic bits and bobs to finish off. 

 

Just to remind anyone who is in striking distance of North Wales on the last weekend of May:

 

Sat 28th Sun 29th and Mon 30th May 2016

Bala Lake Railway Show. 

Venue: 

Ysgol Y Berwyn Secondary School Bala Gwynedd LL23 7RU ( on the A4212) 

 

Show is running alongside the Bala Lake Transport Festival which is being held next to Llanuwchllyn Station and a Free Vintage Bus Service is running from Bala Lake Railway station to the show at the school.

 

So why not enjoy a classic transport show take a train through some beautiful lakeside scenery and have a free Vintage Bus ride to the Model Railway Show. 

 

See separate thread for further details. 

 

 

[Andrew P]

The Layouts looking very good Martin, I wish I could get down for a play, what chips are you using? I've gone away from Bachmann ones as I found they gave a Motor Buzz before moving off, I'm now using the Gaugemaster DCC 27, 8/21 PIN with good results and quiet slow running.

[gismorail]

The Layouts looking very good Martin, I wish I could get down for a play, what chips are you using? I've gone away from Bachmann ones as I found they gave a Motor Buzz before moving off, I'm now using the Gaugemaster DCC 27, 8/21 PIN with good results and quiet slow running.

Hi Andy 

Yes am pleased with progress to date I keep getting inspiration from my visits to your 'Potting shed ' 

 

With regards to 'chips' most of the loco's have sound Zimo projects fitted which I get from ' Digitrains ' Lincoln. I have found Jeremy very helpful and get good advice from him. 

I have used a couple of Digitrax none sound chips in a couple of loco's but am not happy with the running at present, think I need to get into the CV's and change some settings. The 84001 loco and a J39 which have Bachmann split chassis have Gaugemaster none sound chips which i got Lucy at Modellers Mecca to fit for me and an excellent job she has done indeed. 

I have a Hornby 8F fitted with Legomanbiffo sound project and it's amazing plus I went a bit mad at York at Easter and purchased a Class 24 D5000 Suttons Loco Works with sound which is the ultimate 4mm model to be honest but it does cost     but what the hell can't take it with me can I       

 

Really like the latest work on  Pencarne  those flowers etc have added a whole new dimension to the layout. Shame your not up in Bala and the end of the month the Transport Festival and model Railway show looks good. The Bala Lake Railway put a notice in the Railway Modeller a couple of months ago asking as to whether there were any local model railways in the area so I thought it would be a good chance to meet so local modellers. 

[t-b-g]

I finally remembered to ask Vernon Harrod about the coaling hoist on Retford.

 

He did write it up for an article in MRJ No 143, should anybody want to look it up.

 

There are some subtle but visible variations between the hoist at Retford and the one represented by the Walworth kit. There are at least two known variants of the hoist and possibly more.

 

So Vernon ended up doing his own drawings and scratchbuilding and very nice it looks too.

 

The one in the prototype Chester photo is more like the kit version so using that one on the model is entirely appropriate.

 

Tony

[gismorail]

Thanks for that research Tony glad I got it right it's some contraption that's for sure the dust in the summer months must have been bad but it was better than the shuvel I supose . The Walworth kit I believe was modelled on the example at Hitchin

[Merfyn Jones]

Highlight of my weekend at Bala was Northgate shed.  Super layout Martin and good to have a good chinwag over the quiet periods.

 

Merf.

[coachmann]

What were the loco coaling facilities like at Northgate shed? 

[billy_anorak59]

Hi Martin - just stumbled on this one - I'll be following with interest!

 

Just wondering if you've seen the Flickr Site 'KDH Archive' shots taken of Northgate the day before it closed? Can't see that it's been mentioned here, but I might have missed it...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96859208@N07/12931356055/in/album-72157634859512951/

 

Quite a few interesting shots of Northgate itself, and loads more around Chester in the wider album. Even if you've seen it before, it might be of interest to the rest of your audience perhaps...

 

Billy.

[Andrew P]

Hi Martin, I hope your weekend went well mate, shame I couldn't make it, I hope to see it in November when I come up / across to Bala.

[postman23]

After much head scratching    and banging my head against the wall       I have come realise that I just cannot get the proposed layout into the space available without major comprises to the prototype. It is mainly because the main station and goods yard is just too wide to be manageable in model form and I know that I can move things around to make areas more accessible but I just feel that the atmosphere of the prototype will be lost. It has been a real disappointment to have to make this decision but experience from passed projects tells me that if I just carry on regardless I just will not be happy with the outcome which it will only cause further heart ache latter on plus and waste of time and money. 

 

So to the future 

Chester Northgate 6D

 

I have been busy on the locomotive depot which I started as a test track and am glad to say that it will be going to the Bala Lake Railway Exhibition  on the Bank Holiday weekend at the end of May 2016. I will post a thread regarding this event.

 

 

I came to a similar conclusion with my Buxton midland trackplan based Chester north recreation... but I decided to make some boards wheel able so I can pull them out of the way to get further in.

[masmodels1]

I was really interested to read about your layout based on the MSLR and CL railways out of Chester Northgate. I have long been fascinated by these lines, probably this is as a result of my Nain's house at 18, Moss Bank which overlooked the line by the old Liverpool Road Station. My early recollections of hearing the roar of trains approaching and racing to the upstairs window of the front bedroom to view class 40s and later double coupled class 20's pulling freight trains to and from Shotton. I was lucky in that my Aunt and Uncle also lived in a house adjoining Croes Newydd Depot in Wrexham, there I got to see lots of blue diesels there, this being the 1970s and very early 1980s.

 

Until I saw books such as that by Paul Bolger and the North West Rail Centre's by Rex Christiansen I only had one family photo taken by my Dad of the view from the window minus train! I depended on the descriptions of my Nain and Dad to conjour up an image of the buildings!

It was only today seeing your picture of the station concourse - if we can call it that- on Liverpool Road that I now know what it looked like. My Dad had said it was nondescript! I wonder why it wasn't of a similar standard to that at Blacon and Sealand? I have searched far and wide for plans or images of buildings on this line. The NRM has nothing and National Archives claim to have nothing. Do you know if perhaps other images exist of the other elevations of this building?

 

As an aside the National Library of Wales has a number of Railway plans some of which relate to the old GCR lines both in Wales and England.

 

Here is one example:

[Plan showing the central line of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway, Chester to Connah's Quay branch, from Chester to Little Saughall] [cartographic material].

1st ed. Scale 1:2,500. ca. 1873

Available at NLW South MAP (PIERCY (COOK) Piercy (Cook) 316 035/5 )

 

They are often in the Piercy Cook or Piercy Fraser collections of archives and drawings.

 

Again thank you for posting such interesting information and images.

[DLT]

Great project, thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Dave.

[gismorail]

I was really interested to read about your layout based on the MSLR and CL railways out of Chester Northgate. I have long been fascinated by these lines, probably this is as a result of my Nain's house at 18, Moss Bank which overlooked the line by the old Liverpool Road Station. My early recollections of hearing the roar of trains approaching and racing to the upstairs window of the front bedroom to view class 40s and later double coupled class 20's pulling freight trains to and from Shotton. I was lucky in that my Aunt and Uncle also lived in a house adjoining Croes Newydd Depot in Wrexham, there I got to see lots of blue diesels there, this being the 1970s and very early 1980s.

 

Until I saw books such as that by Paul Bolger and the North West Rail Centre's by Rex Christiansen I only had one family photo taken by my Dad of the view from the window minus train! I depended on the descriptions of my Nain and Dad to conjour up an image of the buildings!

It was only today seeing your picture of the station concourse - if we can call it that- on Liverpool Road that I now know what it looked like. My Dad had said it was nondescript! I wonder why it wasn't of a similar standard to that at Blacon and Sealand? I have searched far and wide for plans or images of buildings on this line. The NRM has nothing and National Archives claim to have nothing. Do you know if perhaps other images exist of the other elevations of this building?

 

As an aside the National Library of Wales has a number of Railway plans some of which relate to the old GCR lines both in Wales and England.

 

Here is one example:

[Plan showing the central line of the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway, Chester to Connah's Quay branch, from Chester to Little Saughall] [cartographic material].

1st ed. Scale 1:2,500. ca. 1873

Available at NLW South MAP (PIERCY (COOK) Piercy (Cook) 316 035/5 )

 

They are often in the Piercy Cook or Piercy Fraser collections of archives and drawings.

 

Again thank you for posting such interesting information and images.

Moss Bank was right opposite the back of my parents house and when I considered modelling the Liverpool Road station and the Chester West Junction  the houses would have made a excellent back scene and would have been interesting to model as the left hand side of the road was shorter than the right hand side (hope that makes sense ) so the first part of the houses would have been the backs and the second part would of been the front view. This would have given real depth of field if modelled correctly. 

 

With regard to the Station building on the Liverpool Road which was just a 'tin shed' to be honest and in total contrast to the buildings at Blacon & Saughall which were quite grand. It should be remembered that this part of the line was built by the Great Central and the building on the Liverpool Rd is very similar to the 'tin shed' which was erected at Wrexham Central which I'm led to believe was purchased from a metal buildings company who specialised in Tin Chapels !!! 

[67A]

Hi Martin,

 

Those engine shed scenes look terrific! Its a real major project you are taking on there and all the research in the beginning will undoubtedly pay off in the end.

 

There is one item I have as yet found unavailable from any suppliers which would enhance the depot scene and that is the stacks of Fire Bricks and Brake Block commonly found stacked at depots nationwide as shown by the attached photo of 80000 at Corkerhill in the book BR Standard Steam by GW Sharpe. I did ask Ten Commandments about producing them when I was building 'Bermuda Road MPD' but he seemed unaware of such items and not really interested, shame really.

 

 

[gismorail]

Hi Martin,

 

Those engine shed scenes look terrific! Its a real major project you are taking on there and all the research in the beginning will undoubtedly pay off in the end.

 

2016-10-03 07.44.00.jpg

There is one item I have as yet found unavailable from any suppliers which would enhance the depot scene and that is the stacks of Fire Bricks and Brake Block commonly found stacked at depots nationwide as shown by the attached photo of 80000 at Corkerhill in the book BR Standard Steam by GW Sharpe. I did ask Ten Commandments about producing them when I was building 'Bermuda Road MPD' but he seemed unaware of such items and not really interested, shame really.

You are quite right about the lack of Fire Bricks and Brake Blocks etc and it's a shame that no one seems to want to produce this type of 'junk' piles as it were. I was aware of the lack of such items when finishing off Chester Northgate shed for the show at Bala and since then I have had an invitation to Wigan next year so I do feel that I need to address the situation. 

[Andrew P]

You are quite right about the lack of Fire Bricks and Brake Blocks etc and it's a shame that no one seems to want to produce this type of 'junk' piles as it were. I was aware of the lack of such items when finishing off Chester Northgate shed for the show at Bala and since then I have had an invitation to Wigan next year so I do feel that I need to address the situation. 

That's good news Martin,might just make visiting Wigan again next year a distinct possibility, might even get to have a PLAY, hahaha.

[gismorail]

That's good news Martin,might just make visiting Wigan again next year a distinct possibility, might even get to have a PLAY, hahaha.

Well lets get you booked in for the weekend    

 

Andy you would be very welcome to get up on the footplate and drive mate , but it will only in the shed limits I'm afraid ......there is a shunting turn on the Brewery too......

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

 

Just chanced across this thread. Anybody thinking of doing a model of Chester Northgate will find a book titled "Railways across Mid-Cheshire" by the Late Alan Wilkinson, published by Foxline (ISBN 1-870119-66-5) very useful, probably out of print now though (I believe secondhand copies are available).  By the way Chester MRC actually had their Chestergate layout featured in Railway Modeller and shortly afterwards had a show at their clubrooms in the station building, which I visited, can't remember much more about that though.

 

At the start of the thread there is a photo with what looks like an Austin Cambridge parked outside the station. I can't quite make out the registration but was wondering if it might start with VKY? If so, it might have been my fathers old car!

Edited October 12, 2016 by Stephen Freeman

[gismorail]

Hi Martin,

 

Those engine shed scenes look terrific! Its a real major project you are taking on there and all the research in the beginning will undoubtedly pay off in the end.

 

2016-10-03 07.44.00.jpg

There is one item I have as yet found unavailable from any suppliers which would enhance the depot scene and that is the stacks of Fire Bricks and Brake Block commonly found stacked at depots nationwide as shown by the attached photo of 80000 at Corkerhill in the book BR Standard Steam by GW Sharpe. I did ask Ten Commandments about producing them when I was building 'Bermuda Road MPD' but he seemed unaware of such items and not really interested, shame really.

Looks as though our prayers have been answered in the form of 

Modelu Figures & Components - see thread for details

[Andrew P]

Hi Martin, in looking for some divine inspiration I found this on Page 11 so I thought I'd see if there were any updates / New Ideas at all since my visit.

[gismorail]

A Happy New Year from Chester Northgate shed to all who have followed my thread this year. Layout is booked to appear at the Wigan Show 2017 so there will be some updates and added extras to be done during this coming year.

I'm hoping to add a J10 or two to the roster in time for Wigan as they were several still on shed here up to the end of the 1950's I have actually got three kit built examples in the project box so I'm hoping to  least  get two working with new more up 'to date motor and gear box drive systems' which will work better on the DCC control. Also all are in LNER livery so will have to be respayed and suitably weathered . 

 

I have also managed to purchase another 00 works C13 which will need DCC conversation with sound again they were good engines that were still around up the 1959 operating the Wrexham and New Brighton services.