ed 66 plant Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hi gentlemen---I am about to purchase nameplates for the above loco but would like clarification on a few points first. Namely---was the nameplate background colour red? --- was there a shield? -- were scrolls in eviedence? I have trawled through the info. in place on RMWeb but cannot find answers to the above. Thank you in advance of any help forwarded. regards,Ed Plant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted May 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Hi Ed 34043 did not have a shield but did have the "West Country Class" scroll. Name plate colour is always a tricky one as far as I understand it pre 1952 all loco nameplate were still painted in their own company. In 1952 BR decreed that all nameplates will be painted black but some sheds did not like this colour on their loco nameplates so continued to paint their loco nameplates unofficially red anyway. BR officially went back to red in 1961. As she was in the works in March / April 1954 for a Heavy Intermediate visit I guess she would have been outshoped with black backed nameplates. Seen here in 1953 http://froxfield2012.smugmug.com/BRSouthernRegion/BR-Southern-Region-1950s/i-sMNhMWM/0/L/30_3_1953%2034043%2010.25%20York%20Southcote-L.jpg or here http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/0001-j-payne-34043-basingstoke-60.jpg or here http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/img/s3/v42/p997753867-3.jpg you can see the position of the nameplate (just above the sand access holes) and the scrolls up from the bottom edge of the side sheeting. Edited May 31, 2015 by Graham_Muz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Graham, Thank you very much for your kind response and it goes a long way in answering my queries . Looking thro, the semgonline info and photos on the web the West Countries always seem to have red background plates so I was tending to be drawn that way? I enjoyed your Fisherton Saum layout at trhe Alexandra Palace show--very Southern/atmospheric. best regards, Ed Plant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 There is a brief discussion about 34043 somewhere on RMweb, the point being it was one of the guinea pigs for the cut-down tender trials as early as 1952. As a result the lining was non-standard, or rather different to what later became standard. The predominance of red name plates in photographic records is due to the relative rarity of colour photographs in the 1950s when WC plates were prodominantly black, compared to the flood of colour film becoming more widely available in the 1960s when red became standard. A particular problem arises with regard to the colour of 34043 plates in that it was a Somerset and Dorset loco and almost never cleaned. Hence there are many otherwise excellent colour photos of 34043 where it is simply impossible to determine the colour beneath the grime. Allegedly it was a poor performer and first WC to be withdrawn, which may partly account for the neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Combe Martin certainly was a Somerset and Dorset 'stalwart', there are loads of pictures of it in the S&D 'picture books'. It seemed to be 'allways' on the Pines. Driver Peter Smith in his book described it as a strong engine, but a poor steamer ! It certainly had red plates in the 60s, there are plenty of colour photos, but 50s photos seem to be black and white for reasons described above, so it's difficult to tell what the plate colour was then. It was also one of those WCs with the scrolls mounted higher up the sides rather than at the base of the sides. At some point in 1960 (I think) it also acquired the AWS battery box on the buffer beam. It also had the modified ash pan rather than the standard one as on the Hornby model. I think it was a prototype for the rebuilds ? RT models do a white metal (ex Albert Goodall part) modified ashpan if you want to get it really correct. Edited June 2, 2015 by Combe Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2015 One thing to check if you are going for FoxTransfers name plates, is that to me, they look too long for this loco. It may just be me when looking at photos of the loco but worth checking yourself. If I remember tonight, I will dig out the Fox plates and place them on the loco for reference. I kept with the Hornby plates till I can confirm which ones look nearer to the correct length. All the other Fox plates I have had look fine but as I say it could just be my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Gentlemen----thank you for your time and effort in trying to help--much appreciated--there is no great rush--I intend to use the cut down tender body from the forthcoming Bude model + the Dorchester locol/tender base renamed as Combe Martin . I can then put the high sided 4500 gallon tender body on the Bude tender base.Both should then be right enough for my era/1954-58.I assume all the fittings will be compatible!! regards, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Sharma Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Ed - You may be interested to know that Tim Shackleton in his Wild Swan published book "Plastic Bodied Locos" did a pretty extensive 25 page review of un-rebuilt WC pacifics based around his model of Coombe Martin. Well worth digging out a copy if you're interested in that particular engine. The front cover has a colour pic of his model - cycling lion on the tender, red nameplate and scroll but no crest. He does mention that the scrolls moved six inches vertically upwards after the 1953 overhaul! If you're interested, the ISBN is 1-874103-52-6 Ted Edited June 2, 2015 by ted675 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Ted--much obliged, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ted--much obliged, Ed Ed I am looking forward with eager anticipation to seeing your Combe Martin when in reveals itself. With all this invaluable help and advice, you cant fail to produce a magnificent model. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted June 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2015 The opening sequence from the Titfield Thunderbolt shows Combe Martin going over Midford viaduct. This was filmed in 1953. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 Do you mean 1963?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 If it formed part of the opening sequence of the Titfield Thunderbolt film, it must have been 1953 (or just possibly the previous year). The coaching stock confirms a 1950s date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 Do you mean 1963?? Hi, Ian. Nope, 1953. Ivo Peters photographed Combe Martin on the S&D in July 1953 with what he describes as her newly modified tender. Small cycling lion emblem. 34040/41/42/43 came to the S&D in the summer of 1951. As an aside, photos of 34042 Dorchester taken by Ivo, in July 1951 suggest she was in Malachite green with no emblem on the tender. Can anyone shed light on this? A later photo taken in June 1952 shows her in BR green with a large cycling wheel on the tender. Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sorry My mistake. The green coaches together with a filthy loco threw me for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 I agree, Ian. '43 is in a shocking state, more in keeping with the '60's than the '50's. Rob. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted June 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2015 Perhaps these Ivo Peters photos will help. The view in Bath Green Park is from 51. The view at Evercreech dates from July 53. Is it me or have the scrolls been raised in the later view? Hope this helps. Rob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Plenty of Southern corridor carriages never made it into blood and custard as photos (correctly) dated 1955 and 1956 will show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Gentlemen, No progress yet on Combe Martin whilst I await delivery of the forthcoming Bude and rerun of Exeter. I now understand that the newer current West Country locos differ from the older versions in a number of ways--- Decoder now in the tender---a different electrical connection between loco and tender---the new tenders have different fastening points to unite chassis and top therefore swapping of tender bodies is not straightforward. I currently have Dorchester with old clasp arrangement between tender/loco and wish to do some mix and match when the new models arrive to achieve my endpoint.------Dorchester renamed Combe Martin with 4500 g cut down tender ----- Bude with high sided 4500 g tender ------Exeter with high sided 4500g tender To achieve this I plan to --pair Bude loco with Exeter tender --pair Exeter loco with Bude tender --put Combe M. loco body on Exeter loco chassis -- put Exeter loco body on Combe M/was Dorchester loco chassis--this pairing would have the old clasp coupling between loco/tender-the tender being a high sided 4500g type. Question--having not seen the new Hornby West C. models is the above the best way to achieve my end point ? thank you for any responses, regards, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightspark Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Perhaps these Ivo Peters photos will help. The view in Bath Green Park is from 51. The view at Evercreech dates from July 53. Is it me or have the scrolls been raised in the later view? Hope this helps. Rob Yes the scrolls were moved. It caught me out. See the comments on my model of CM in the "Spam Can" thread. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55308-modelling-spam-cans-bulleid-pacifics/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Mr Brightspark-----thank you for your kind response, regards, Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 Gentlemen, Would you believe I have just got round to putting the Fox Combe Martin nameplates on and it is very obvious that the nameplate length exceeds the extreme distance between the sand box fillers. The nameplate length is 29mms. The distance between the sand fillers on the Hornby models is 26mms(extreme left to right). The corresponding distance on 4mm scale drawings is 28.5 mms. The 29 and 28.5 figures match up and seem to agree with pics of the real loco. Obviously one of these dimensions is wrong--which one please? regards, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 One thing to check if you are going for FoxTransfers name plates, is that to me, they look too long for this loco. It may just be me when looking at photos of the loco but worth checking yourself. If I remember tonight, I will dig out the Fox plates and place them on the loco for reference. I kept with the Hornby plates till I can confirm which ones look nearer to the correct length. All the other Fox plates I have had look fine but as I say it could just be my interpretation. Hi Mr Roundhouse, How did you finalise your Combe Martin nameplate project and have you got any view on my last post on this thread? Thank you, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted June 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Mr Roundhouse, How did you finalise your Combe Martin nameplate project and have you got any view on my last post on this thread? Thank you, Ed Ed My thoughts were that the Hornby one was the best option after studying the photos so left those ones in place. I hadnt considered that the sand box fillers could be incorrect so will have to do another review of this when I get chance. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed 66 plant Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Ed My thoughts were that the Hornby one was the best option after studying the photos so left those ones in place. I hadnt considered that the sand box fillers could be incorrect so will have to do another review of this when I get chance. Ian Ian---thank you--am opting for the Fox plates to replace Wilton. regards, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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