ianb26 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Hi there,I have an old Triang loco (my favourite actually) R159A/R250A built in Australia. I am getting back into H0/00 after 15 years or so. I am using code 100 track, but as you can in the attached photo, that the wheels on the power bogie are the milled? type - and old to boot!!! The other bogie is the same, although the wheels are plastic.Is it possible to change the bogies to the more modern type? I'm having trouble running it even on code 100 track, which I never had originally. The loco is what is known in Australia as a B class loco. In Melbourne our electric metropolitan network operator - Metro Trains - have 2 of this class as recovery vehicles. I want to repaint it into their livery (see last photo), but I don't want to do it if I can't change the bogies. I am hoping to wire the new layout as DCC. Also attached are a couple of photos of my layout. Any help would be appreciated.Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2015 Probably the easiest solution is to replace both bogies with a "spud" or "Black Beetle". What is the wheelbase of each bogie? But it is also possible to change the wheels. You could do that either by drilling out the centre of some finer flanged wheels to fit the Triang axle (3mm?) or by using finer axles and bushing the gears (I've only done the latter - many years ago!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I would suggest that a complete bogie change may be the most benificial - the full size locos were Co-Co, so it would not only get you better wheels but you may even get the right number too! What you use to replace them may be down to what you can find locally and if there are any doner locomotives you can get hold of cheaply with suitable bogies. You will have to do some surgery to the body to get them to fit as they will undoubtably have different mounting arrangements, or perhaps you could open out the bottom of the body to fit an adapted chassis. Depends how far you want to go! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The Triang bogies came with a variety of different wheels, yours look like very early, 1960 ish, the Dock Shunter uses the same bogie, and some of the later ones run fine on Peco Code 100, however the same ones bottom out on "GT" Code 100 so maybe later Dock Shunter wheelsets may be an answer, With the non knurled wheels you can gind down the flanges with a sanding disc and some care but the knurled ones are too hard, but with non knuled wheels you will lose a lot of pulling power. Another solution Romf9rd / Markits Triang Axles (3mm?) with the Triang gear wheel, and I suppose 14mm? Romford driving wheels, insulated one side? The trailing Bogie would need compatible Coack wheels and some of those old brass bearings designed for the old open axlebox Triang bogies? I have several of these old locos,50 ish years old and still going strong, but used on a Triang Super 4 Floor layout! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Triang (& Hornby) produced both knurled wheels and plain ones, I've replaced many with the plain ones during my period as a service engineer. Also from experience, they WILL run ok on Peco code 100, just maybe need the back-to-back adjusting. It is very easy to do with a small screwdriver, or small electronics pliers. 1st examine the wheel centres, one has a plastic insulated centre. Go to the solid wheel on the other end of the axle, and gently lever it to widen the gauge. If you go too far, take the wheelset out and squeeze together again (fingers if you are lucky, or a vice, or even a gentle tap with a small hammer on the solid wheel while supporting the other on a hard surface). Personally I would rather have finer wheels, but have used many by doing the above. Not sure of the b2b dimension, but trial and error on the track will suffice. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2015 Maybe you'd be better off getting a Lima version. At least they have the correct number of wheels & run OK on code 100 track. Yes I know its not the same as refurbishing your old favourite, but... There are also Auscision, PSM & ALCO versions available too. Depends on your budget, but the Lima one, ought to be the cheapest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 What is the wheelbase of each bogie? Sorry, where do I measure the wheelbase? Gee I'm ignorant, aren't I? Also attached another 2 photos of the livery I want to give the old Co-Co loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted June 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2015 The wheelbase is measured dead-centre on the axles. But that will also be the distance from the leading edge of the wheel to the leading edge of the next wheel. Or the distance of the outside edges of the wheels minus the diameter of the wheels. Someone a while back thought that TriAng had made the wheels out of surplus army tank metal. Long tale about how many lathe tools and grinding wheels he'd worn out trying to reduce the flanges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 I would suggest that a complete bogie change may be the most benificial - the full size locos were Co-Co, so it would not only get you better wheels but you may even get the right number too! What you use to replace them may be down to what you can find locally and if there are any doner locomotives you can get hold of cheaply with suitable bogies. You will have to do some surgery to the body to get them to fit as they will undoubtably have different mounting arrangements, or perhaps you could open out the bottom of the body to fit an adapted chassis. Depends how far you want to go! Discovered they are Bo-Bo. Sorry to contradict you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2015 Sorry Ian Titan was correct Those photos are Co-Co - 3 axle boxes and brake cylinders per bogie is the give away. Producing them as Bo-bos was a typical triang compromise! Are there similar bo-bo prototypes causing confusion? Kind regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yes, 3 axles/six wheels per bogie. I even went to the trouble of checking Wikipedia before posting in case they were A1A-A1A as I am not very familiar with the prototype, but the full size loco is a definate Co-Co. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yes, 3 axles/six wheels per bogie. I even went to the trouble of checking Wikipedia before posting in case they were A1A-A1A as I am not very familiar with the prototype, but the full size loco is a definate Co-Co. OOPS I apologise. Looking at the prototype it sure does have 3 axles. I was going on the ebay listing which said Bo-Bo. Sorry again. It appears manufacturers take some liberties in their designs. There was an eBay listing for a dummy locomotive here in Aus. How easy would it be to put a motorised bogie in it? It doesn't matter now as the item has been sold Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Scalespeed offer a full overhall of older Triang and Hornby mechs. They even offer a reprofiling service of the coarse scale wheels. From website OLD TRIANG WHEELS Old course Triang drivers & power bogie wheels can be re-profiled & re-gauged to run on modern track (Code 100 only).£17.50.+ £4.50 p&p http://www.scalespeed.co.uk/ Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Does anyone know if there is a service like this in Australia? I might try and find out this weekend at the Waverley Model Train exhibition at Glen Waverley here in Melbourne. Thanks for all your replies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 3, 2015 Sorry Ian Titan was correct Those photos are Co-Co - 3 axle boxes and brake cylinders per bogie is the give away. Producing them as Bo-bos was a typical triang compromise! Are there similar bo-bo prototypes causing confusion? Kind regards Phil No, the Bo-Bos that the V.R. had, looked nothing like the B Class, so no possible confusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victorian_Railways_diesel_locomotives Edit 'T' & 'Y' Classes are the closest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The loco you have is probably late 1950s as it has the early version of the tension lock coupler; this was superceded by the familiar closed loop and hook type in about 1960. the wheels are sintered iron and almost impossible to turn to any sort of fine standard. It may be best to keep it as a collectors item! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2015 OOPS I apologise. Looking at the prototype it sure does have 3 axles. I was going on the ebay listing which said Bo-Bo. Sorry again. It appears manufacturers take some liberties in their designs. There was an eBay listing for a dummy locomotive here in Aus. How easy would it be to put a motorised bogie in it? It doesn't matter now as the item has been sold Best to take what you read on Ebay with a huge pinch of salt - unless you have confidence in the seller!!!! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2015 There was an eBay listing for a dummy locomotive here in Aus. How easy would it be to put a motorised bogie in it? If you really want to go down the additional motorised bogie option, why not buy a 2nd model? If you're going to Waverley's exhibition, you might well find one on their 2nd hand stall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just come across this thread. The pic is of V-line loco A70. It had just worked in a suburban train. I took the pic in November 2010. I think it's Southern Cross station in Melbourne, it's the one the airport bus leaves from. I gather that since then this loco and another still run but not on service trains and the other A class locos both passenger and freight are stored. I'd be interested to know more about them since it's an interesting looking loco.(There is some info on a link from an earlier post). So - could a Triang Australian double-ended diesel be made to look sufficiently like an A class to be convincing? It would just be a stand alone model, (that's if I can find a second hand one in the UK of course). I shall follow this thread with interest! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 The A class locos were refurbished B class. None of the A class remain in service. The working you describe here was probably an outer Melbourne service to Bacchus Marsh as the electrified network doesn't serve that area - yet. I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong. (V/Line has withdrawn their fleet, with A60 operating the final service, the 16:15 Southern Cross to Bacchus Marsh on 24 April 2013.) The pic of the B class in Metro livery is one the original B class. It is actually leased from Chicago Freight Car Leasing (CFCL). CFCL also have another B class - B76. Have a look at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victorian_Railways_diesel_locomotives It details all of the Victorian diesels built. Just click on the links from that page. I hope that helps you PS. There was also a separate class based on the B class. It was the S class - single ended instead of a double ended. The "flat" end also had driving facilities. The were usually used in tandem with the flat ends coupled together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thanks for that, Ian. Looks like the train I saw in 2010 was nearly at the end of an era. Very useful link as well, lots of information about locos I saw in passing, so that's filled in some gaps for me. Good luck with the Triang loco, be interesting to see how it works out. cheers, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Went to the Model train show today. Grandson had a good time. Bought second hand Digitrax DCS50. But I now need a PS315 power supply. Does anyone know where I can get one in Melbourne, preferably in the southeast suburbs. The unit requires Max input 2.5 Amps, 15VAC, 37.5VA CONTINUOUS. NOT to exceed 16v rms AC, 50/60HZ OR 22v dc Input. There are some on eBay, but they are only 120V AC power packs and can't be used on 240 V. Any help appreciated. As for the Triang R159A/R250A, looks like it will have to be something to look at, as it is almost impossible to get a motorised bogie with the smaller wheelsets. OH well have a birthday coming up in a few weeks so guess I will have to throw out some VERY strong hints round the family in the mean time. I think between 3 kids, wife, and grandchildren, something should eventuate. Bye for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'm pretty sure this model has the same power bogie as the early Tri-ang DMU's. That being the case, there's a seller on Ebay who offers the wheels you need. Search for "finer OO scale wheels". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 6, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 6, 2015 Went to the Model train show today. Grandson had a good time. Bought second hand Digitrax DCS50. But I now need a PS315 power supply. Does anyone know where I can get one in Melbourne, preferably in the southeast suburbs. The unit requires Max input 2.5 Amps, 15VAC, 37.5VA CONTINUOUS. NOT to exceed 16v rms AC, 50/60HZ OR 22v dc Input. There are some on eBay, but they are only 120V AC power packs and can't be used on 240 V. Any help appreciated. The PS315 is obsolete and is replaced by the PS314, which is only supplied with a set (according to its label). IMO better to buy something with plenty of capacity such as a Powertech (Jaycar brand) MP3096. A few suppliers around, including eBay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianb26 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 The PS315 is obsolete and is replaced by the PS314, which is only supplied with a set (according to its label). IMO better to buy something with plenty of capacity such as a Powertech (Jaycar brand) MP3096. A few suppliers around, including eBay. Thanks Kevin, I looked up the Jaycar catalogue and that unit is about $100!, waaaayyyyy out of my Budget. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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