Metalsmith's 70' turntable kit

[gordon s]

I'm seriously considering selling my Fleischmann turntables and using the funds generated to purchase a Metalsmith's 70' Cowan and Sheldon Turntable for Eastwood Town. I'm hoping to get a call tomorrow re the availability of a 4mm version, but am curious as to how difficult it is to build this kit.

 

I'm reasonable confident with soldering and build all my own turnouts from pcb components, although I have never built any rolling stock. Is this a simple kit to build or are there many items that require bending and forming? On a score of 1-10 for ease of assembly, with 1 being the lowest and easiest to put together and 10 being the hardest, how would you rate the kit? They are quite expensive, but do look very good, so I'm sorely tempted. Do you need the installation kit and what about motorising?

 

Any impartial views would be very welcome.

[alcazar]

I've not built one myself, but have seen them in 7mm and they look great.

 

I have also read an article about the build and the builder was tearing his hair out at some bits, mostly locating tiny nuts etc into difficult places.

 

And yes, unless you can scratch build one, you need a well kit.

 

Metalsmiths and others do motorising kits. Metalsmiths themselves have been promising an indexing kit too, but it's not appeared in the press yet. Their, and other, motorising kits need the tuntable lined up by eye.

[Blue Max]

Would I be correct in assuming from your post that Metalsmith are about to launch the 70 foot Cowans Sheldon turntable in 4mm. I received an e-mail response from them in December suggesting that the pre group 60 foot turntable was to be first in 4mm followed by the 42ft and 50ft versions, with the 70ft CS not following until some way after these.

 

My preference for the 70 foot table would generate an order being sent off straight away.

 

 

[gordon s]

Apologies if I've mislead you BlueMax, I don't know as yet. I've left them a message to call me, so I'm hoping to hear tomorrow. I got the impression from their website that 4mm versions were launched a year ago and like your goodself, hoped that the 70' version would be available.

 

They also said that the initial batch of kits in the 0 gauge version was produced as the 70' version, so I'm hoping the same order of priority will follow in 4mm.

 

I'll let you know if I have any luck.

 

 

[5XP]

I would also like the 4mm 70' unit so will await with interest to see what they say.

 

I did actually send them an email on the 24th Jan and although read on the 25th (read receipt returned) they couldnt be bothered to reply so am still waiting.

Not a good start customer service wise.

[Ian G]

Im building a 70'' Metalsmith TT or our clubs Oakhampton layout, they are realy a complete bag of bits, you will need a decent rivit press as there are lots to press out, they go together well but if you need to alter it can be a pain sourcing the items.

 

Ian G

[gordon s]

Thanks Ian. I found your workbench and this comment has made me think......

 

I have put the 33 aside for a while as I have a 70 foot turntable to build for the clubs layout, It is a Metal Smith TT and a pig to build as it is more of a model engineering build than a kit, the instructions are sparse and a lot of bits to form.

 

Is that a 7mm version?

 

I'm feeling quite brave about attempting such a kit, but need to be realistic about what can be achieved. I guess good forming and bending tools are a must. Clearly you are an experienced kit builder and if you are finding it quite complex, it may be beyond my current capabilities.

[Ian G]

The worse part of the build is having to punch all the rivits on the strip, the strips are about 12" long with rivit spacings about 1.5mm, off the top of my head I think there where 12 strips in the kit. the brdige section bolts together well, I used plastic chairs as this was easyer to glue down in the well with MEK or Butanol. The plans are basic but its not to dificult to work out what you need.

 

Ian G

[Steve Taylor]

These look rather tasty, P4 anyone?

Keep us informed about the 4mm alternatives and any progress you may make.

[gordon s]

I have spoken to Metalsmiths this morning and they were very helpful. The first 4mm version will be released within the next few days and will be a pre grouping 60' Cowan and Sheldon one.

 

The drawings for the 70' vacuum driven table are complete, but etchings have yet to be made. They are hopeful it will appear within the year, but suggest we follow their website for updates.

[gordon s]

I've just had this mail from Metalsmiths re their range of brass turntables. Trying very hard to resist one for Eastwood Town...

 

 

This email is addressed to all those who have expressed interest in our new

range of 4mm scale turntable kits.

 

It is now several months since we first announced our intention to expand

our range of turntable kits to include 4mm scale, so the purpose of this

note is to explain where we are at in terms of development and production.

Some of you will have already received an email advising expected release

dates, (which have now passed), so the following will hopefully give an

insight into the problems which have been encountered, and resolved, during

the past months.

 

Firstly, can I explain that the company Metalsmith Ltd. consists, basically,

of me! Whilst I do have assistants, who perform office duties, and certain

machining operations, the bulk of the design and development of the

turntable kits is down to me. I have, however, been assisted greatly in the

design of the turntable kits by an experienced 4mm scale modeller, who also

has knowledge of CAD design. In addition to producing t/t kits, we also have

the engineering side of the business to run, although this has been affected

somewhat by a general downturn in subcontract work. Fortunately, retail

sales of metals and materials have increased dramatically, and now form the

bulk of our turnover.

 

The announcement of the proposed range of 4mm turntables was originally

intended to test the water, in order to determine the potential interest.

The resultant steady stream of enquiries has confirmed my belief that there

is certainly a demand out there for a SCALE t/table kit. The decision was

made to introduce the range in the following order:-

 

Pre-grouping style, initially 60ft, to be followed by 50ft. & 42ft versions.

"Modern" Cowans & Sheldon vacuum 70ft.

(Possibly) GWR over-girder 65ft. (I say possibly because there is already on

the market a kit for a 4mm GWR turntable, albeit a 55ft. and then only the

floor and side girders. i.e. no wheels, track, handrail, well etc.)

 

The kits follow the general format of our successful 7mm range (now in their

26th year), consisting of 3 modules - the bridge, the installation kit (the

well), and the motor kit. The Installation kit consists of a 300mm x 300

module, and enables the whole turntable to be constructed and tested "on the

bench" before being dropped into a square aperture in the layout baseboard.

Two methods of motorisation will be available - conventional dc motor

powered from the loco controller, and stepper motor drive, which requires

connection to a PC, and which provides programmable indexing.

 

Production of the prototype (PG 60ft.) was completed early last year.

Several constructional problems were identified, and remedied, involving a

complete re-work of the etchings. Patterns and jigs were made to facilitate

machining of certain components, as the intention was to produce as much as

possible in-house. However, time constraints and lack of suitable machining

facilities (our lathes are not fast enough to turn some of the tiny

components required in 4mm scale!) means that several parts are now

outsourced.

 

During the past year, we have suffered a number of setbacks which have

caused disruption to production of kits, both new and existing. We are no

longer allowed to machine the MDF installation modules on the premises (HSE

ruling due to lack of dust-extraction equipment), our factory was broken

into (twice), and I was hospitalized (twice). We have also been involved in

a protracted legal altercation with our landlords regarding irregularities

with our factory lease, and this has caused frequent interruption to our

work programme due to the need to attend meetings, make interminable phone

calls etc. Fortunately, this situation has been resolved, and despite

earlier uncertainties over the continuation of our lease, we are about to

sign-up for another three year extension (at a considerable increase in

rent)!

 

Now the good news. The prototype 4mm model has been donated to the Market

Deeping Model Railway Club for their layout "Canons Cross", the construction

of which is being serialised in British Railway Modelling. This was a useful

test-bed for the model, which performed faultlessly at the recent Doncaster

and Alexandra Palace exhibitions. A kit has been offered to Tony Wright for

review in BRM. Kits are being packed, and illustrated instructions have been

finalised. We have just received a delivery of fully machined MDF boards for

the Installation Modules, so kits are now ready for despatch. Motorisation

will be offered, initially, in the form of the standard dc motor kit, as

used with our 7mm turntables. This consists of a motor/gearbox mounted

beneath the well, with a belt drive to a large disc attached to the centre

shaft. The stepper-motor indexing system will be available later when a

couple of modifications are incorporated by the manufacturer. These will

provide a foolproof system of connecting power to the motor controller

board, and enable a variety of readily-available plug-in power supplies to

be used. (At the moment, power is connected via screw terminals, and the

fact that the jack plug of the power unit has to be removed could result in

accidental polarity reversal, destroying the circuit board. Modification of

the board involves the addition of a voltage regulator, and provision of a

jack socket for the power supply, since removal of the plug would invalidate

the CE certification of the power unit.) This method of motorisation is

likely to be considerably more expensive than conventional dc motor drive,

and it remains to be seen whether the need for connection to a PC will be

acceptable to users, or a deterrent to sales. The actual cost will not be

known until the manufacturer has incorporated the modifications.

 

Prices have been set as follows: (GBP)

PG turntable kit (all sizes) 70.50

Installation Module 45.00

DC Motor Unit 64.50

Stepper Motor unit * tba

Carriage (UK mainland) 6.00 for all 3 modules

 

* Consists of stepper motor/gearbox, circuit board, power supply, USB lead &

CD-ROM.

 

Orders are invited for the first batch of kits, please include a phone

number or email address for advice of despatch. Please also state gauge

required - OO, EM or P4.

 

Thanks again for your interest and patience.

 

Regards

 

Dave Smith

Metalsmith Ltd.

Tel/fax 01536 410536

International +44 1536 41 05 36

sales@metalsmith.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

[beeman]

I'm seriously considering selling my Fleischmann turntables and using the funds generated to purchase a Metalsmith's 70' Cowan and Sheldon Turntable for Eastwood Town. I'm hoping to get a call tomorrow re the availability of a 4mm version, but am curious as to how difficult it is to build this kit.

 

I'm reasonable confident with soldering and build all my own turnouts from pcb components, although I have never built any rolling stock. Is this a simple kit to build or are there many items that require bending and forming? On a score of 1-10 for ease of assembly, with 1 being the lowest and easiest to put together and 10 being the hardest, how would you rate the kit? They are quite expensive, but do look very good, so I'm sorely tempted. Do you need the installation kit and what about motorising?

 

Any impartial views would be very welcome.

[beeman]

This was an interesting read for me, that a similar method of using a belt drive is adopted by Metalsmiths as my own endeavours, see 'Table a la Carte' elsewhere on this site' sorry, not sure how to create a direct link.Metalsmiths say they use a polyurethane belt, I hope its a toothed one otherwise slippage will mess up any stepper motor settings, Their offerings look interesting albeit quite expensive for many modellers. Seems you have 'abilities' re. track making, so why not contemplate using the Dapol turntable kit{Airfix} cutting and extending the sideplates/deck if you need a longer version, this is only 'cladding' for the engineering needed underneath anyway.If you check out my posting you will see I used some redundant pc. printer parts along with other ideas, some member suggested the idea of using a bike bearinged whel hub, good suggestion with adjustable bearing centres, another supplier of turntable componemts has a large disk type pulley that could be adapted, 'Casting' some teeth in a couple of diametric positions using Plastic Padding to match the belt tooth profile, or even a wooden/plastic item if you know someone with a lathe to turn it. the ideas for innovation can save expense, the detail can be increased to your own demands. good luck Beeman

[edcayton]

IIRC Canon's Cross was the Southern terminus layout at the Trains4U open day. In that case then it really caught my eye as being an order of magnitude better than any other 4mm tt I have seen. i'm guessing that it was Dave I was talking to and, yes, it did not sound an easy build (for my limited abilities anyway), but it was really stunning.

 

Ed

[iak]

They do provide assembled ones according to the web-site

 

Cowans Sheldon Turntables

 

Expensive but hey... If they look this good? B)

[gordon s]

Yes, I did see that, but I just thought it was about time I attempted to do a brass kit. It's the vacuum type I want to build and they're not available as yet.

 

I may live to regret it, but you don't know what you can do until you try. I sat on the fence with track building for over 40 years and I won't live another 40, so I'm going for it........

 

Thanks Beeman for your input. I'll take a look at your thread later tonight.

 

Just out of interest, the Fleischmann ones are over £250, so these are reasonable value for the quality.

[sixoh8sixoh]

Did you ever get the kit, Gordon? Having been looking at my Rothbury book, I started thinking about a 42' turntable and came across the Metalsmiths webpage and then this thread. Is there still a requirement for one on ET mk3?

[Jol Wilkinson]

Did you ever get the kit, Gordon? Having been looking at my Rothbury book, I started thinking about a 42' turntable and came across the Metalsmiths webpage and then this thread. Is there still a requirement for one on ET mk3?

You could also consider the London Road Models 42' turntable.

 

http://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/various/architectural-kits/

 

 

[polybear]

I've emailed Metalsmith numerous times over several years enquiring as to progress on the 4mm 70ft Turntable.  I'm still waiting for it to become available 

The Metalsmith website still quotes the 70ft table as being under development, with availability t.b.a.

Don't hold your breath.....

 

Edit:  Probably the most useful size, and with such a gaping hole in the market.  I seem to recall a VERY nice one with DCC & indexing being demonstrated at Ally Pally earlier this year (maybe from Golden Age Models?) but there is no sign of it on their website.  Not cheap though, oh no....but very nice 

[sixoh8sixoh]

You could also consider the London Road Models 42' turntable.

Thanks - I'll consider that. I was attracted to the Metalsmiths one as they have the ready assembled option listed (I'm not sure I have the tools or skill to make a good enough attempt at this type of kit myself), but the 42' turntable, like the 70' one, isn't yet available. On the plus side there's no rush for me so I may be able to wait for Metalmiths.

[CUTLER2579]

I've emailed Metalsmith numerous times over several years enquiring as to progress on the 4mm 70ft Turntable.  I'm still waiting for it to become available 

The Metalsmith website still quotes the 70ft table as being under development, with availability t.b.a.

Don't hold your breath.....

 

Edit:  Probably the most useful size, and with such a gaping hole in the market.  I seem to recall a VERY nice one with DCC & indexing being demonstrated at Ally Pally earlier this year (maybe from Golden Age Models?) but there is no sign of it on their website.  Not cheap though, oh no....but very nice 

 

Were you thinking of the ADM turntable in 4mm scale with an indexing system using a stepper motor (I think). It is a nice bit of kit.They have a website and Adrian is a very pleasant guy,willing to discuss things at length. I have a Metalsmith  7mm  70 foot turntable,but it was built by them not me.I have however changed the drive for a ABC gears turntable drive unit and I line it up by eye !!.  Overall I am reasonably happy with it,but a bit pricey.

Regards.

[Stanley Melrose]

I first enquired about the Metalsmiths 70ft Cowans Sheldon TT in May 2009.  I understand Dave Smith has had many problems but there is still no sign of the product.

 

Stan

[RANGERS]

I knew Dave many years ago when he worked for BT, his engineering skills are without question and all the reports of the turntables in 7mm have been very positive. Like us all, he won't be getting any younger (past retirement by my reckoning) and with a small business, even minor interruptions such as health issues can cause delays to despatching stock items, which generate the lifeblood revenue, so a backlog of new product development is inevitable.