David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 This is my current workbench, batch building P4 locos! In the photo are a GWR Prairie tank, two LNER A5s and an LNER N5. I have sprung each loco, although the method on each class is different, The N5 is a Judith Edge kit with a Masokits loco subframe system, my preferred way of loco chassis building if possible, the radial truck is a lash up of bits but is built like a pony truck but lightly sprung. The A5s are Bill Bedford chassis although I have replaced the hornblocks with High Level bits and the bogies with Masokits parts. Springs are guitar strings above the axleboxes, the radial truck again is a lash up of bits I had to hand or turned up. The Prairie is a Martin Finney Kit although again I have replaced the hornblocks and axle boxes with High Level bits although in this case the guitar wire springs are below the axleboxes, there is absolutely no clearance behind the crosshead and front of the coupling rod, but it does run without anything hitting each other. I took me an age to get all the chassis running smoothly without binds or tight spots even though each chassis was built on an Anonside jig, but I was determined to make sure I did not progress any further until each six coupled unit ran sweetly. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Four at a time - I don't think I manage four a year. Whose A5 are you using for the body (selfish reason for asking as I have a Craftsman A5 in the to do pile)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Four at a time - I don't think I manage four a year. Whose A5 are you using for the body (selfish reason for asking as I have a Craftsman A5 in the to do pile)? The A5 body is Craftsman, I understand PDK are going to do a kit soon, The Bill Bedford chassis has resin springs, brake shoes and hangers. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I took me an age to get all the chassis running smoothly without binds or tight spots even though each chassis was built on an Anonside jig, Do you find that a bit worrying David? Or has it more to do with getting the CSB suspension organised? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Do you find that a bit worrying David? Or has it more to do with getting the CSB suspension organised? I don't use CSB I have a single spring to each axlebox. I dont find it worrying as I am always checking for binds it can be a case that the wheels are not quite quartered or a coupling needs opening up a fraction or just a burr somewhere thats making something rub. the wheels and crankpins have been on and off quite a few times checking each part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 GCR frenzy.... I'm interested to see how the N5 goes since I have one tucked away How did the chassis go together with this David please? I seem to recall one needs to mark up ones own cutouts or am I getting muddled up? And the A5's look nice as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I don't use CSB I have a single spring to each axlebox..... Interesting to see that you've gone for the simple individual, non-adjustable leaf springs there. How do they perform in service? When I did my Standard Five (DJH), and Stephenson Black 5 (Comet / Gibson / Bedford hybrid), I built both with the screw-adjustable system advocated by Bradwell / Pendlenton. Took ages working out where the individual screws should be mounted..... I have the Masokits parts for the "ladder-frame" chassis to be somehow put into a Lord Nelson, but am not looking forward to the prospect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 You can ajust the spring rate by changing the thinkness of the guitar string, I may drill a hole through a small bolt solder a nut to the inside of the frame and made the springs even more ajustable. but if it works well enough as it is I will leave well alone. The Masokits system works really well it easy to build follow the instructions to the word and you can't go wrong, I will use it if I can. The N5 just has axle/bearing holes in the chassis sides so its perfect for the Masokits system. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 .....the radial truck is a lash up of bits but is built like a pony truck but lightly sprung.... That reminds me: LRM do a useful radial truck etch which seems to have universal applications. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Dave - have you started the Craftsman A5 body yet? There are a couple of minor mistakes:- Bunker is too narrow, the whole thing needs to be wider. If you set the tank tops slightly low to create the 'lip' around the tank, the cab will be too low. I realised this after I had finished mine! I might have a drawing I can lend you PM me if you need it. 4 chassis at once is pretty impressive! Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 That reminds me: LRM do a useful radial truck etch which seems to have universal applications. Now you tell me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 You can ajust the spring rate by changing the thinkness of the guitar string, I may drill a hole through a small bolt solder a nut to the inside of the frame and made the springs even more ajustable. but if it works well enough as it is I will leave well alone. The Masokits system works really well it easy to build follow the instructions to the word and you can't go wrong, I will use it if I can. The N5 just has axle/bearing holes in the chassis sides so its perfect for the Masokits system. David No hornblocks David or are they mounted inside? Methinks I need to investigate? VERY interesting Edit. Just had a look at the Masokits list - whoopeee! I had visions of hacking the N5 Chassis up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 Dave - have you started the Craftsman A5 body yet? There are a couple of minor mistakes:- Bunker is too narrow, the whole thing needs to be wider. If you set the tank tops slightly low to create the 'lip' around the tank, the cab will be too low. I realised this after I had finished mine! I might have a drawing I can lend you PM me if you need it. 4 chassis at once is pretty impressive! Cheers Tony I have started one body as I needed to work out the motor gearbox possition, if you have info or drawings that would be great, I do have the Yeadons book for info which is quite useful, I did look at the bunker and it is narrower than the tanks on the prototype, although if needed I may change things. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 No hornblocks David or are they mounted inside?.... Masokits use hornblocks that are part of a cradle - it's another variation on the idea used on their inside-bearing universal tender chassis. You then remove the middle of the cradle for the driven axle. The instructions supplied are an essential read. I've read mine several times, and do understand how it all comes together, but haven't had the courage to open the packets and start putting the frets together! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 Masokits use hornblocks that are part of a cradle - it's another variation on the idea used on their inside-bearing universal tender chassis. You then remove the middle of the cradle for the driven axle. The instructions supplied are an essential read. I've read mine several times, and do understand how it all comes together, but haven't had the courage to open the packets and start putting the frets together! The Masokits subframes are a joy to build I used it first in my J50 and it is my sweetest running loco, It may look a complex system but follow the excelent instructions and you wont go wrong, ensure you make sure you get the right ones as there are wide and narrow types, The wide ones are when you have single thickness frames the narrow ones when the frames are thicker or made up with overlays. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 .... there are wide and narrow types, The wide ones are when you have single thickness frames the narrow ones when the frames are thicker or made up with overlays. Correct. I went for the wide ladder version, as I'm using Comet's single-thickness frames on the Craftsman "Lord Nelson" . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Considering I've used Masokits wagon bits for ages, I cannot fathom how I missed the loco system? The S4um shopping list gets longer.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted June 16, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2010 Considering I've used Masokits wagon bits for ages, I cannot fathom how I missed the loco system? Same here, hadn't heard of it before! Anyway, that's the benefit of sharing stuff on a forum like this... As regards having to tweak each chassis to get it to run smoothly, despite using a chassis jig, I'm not that surprised. Whilst I would probably have bought the Avonside jig, had it been available first, I have ended up with the Hobby Holidays one, and whilst it is a boon to chassis building, care is still needed (obviously), and I don't think that many of the many chassis I've done in either OO or P4 have ever run smoothly first time. It always seems to be a case of 'blood, sweat & tears' before it goes right.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 Same here, hadn't heard of it before! Anyway, that's the benefit of sharing stuff on a forum like this... As regards having to tweak each chassis to get it to run smoothly, despite using a chassis jig, I'm not that surprised. Whilst I would probably have bought the Avonside jig, had it been available first, I have ended up with the Hobby Holidays one, and whilst it is a boon to chassis building, care is still needed (obviously), and I don't think that many of the many chassis I've done in either OO or P4 have ever run smoothly first time. It always seems to be a case of 'blood, sweat & tears' before it goes right.... The subframe units have been around for quite a few years, something says in my head 2003 or 2005 I will have to check the artwork as Mike Clark normally puts a date on it. I have had to remove some of the footplate between the frames under the boiler as I want to be able to see between the frames, I may have to pop some idea of inside motion has anyone photos of whats there on Butler Henderson as I guess it would be simular. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 ......I don't think that many of the many chassis I've done in either OO or P4 have ever run smoothly first time. It always seems to be a case of 'blood, sweat & tears' before it goes right.... Same here, but I don't use either the Avonside or HH jigs since I'd much rather keep the money for other things. I was taught that the acid test of sprung/compensated chassis building was - once you had the basic frames, rods, and hornblocks/bearings assembled - to wheel the thing up, with coupling rods on, and then let it roll down a small board or plank under its own momentum. If it all rolled freely, then you'd basically hit the bullseye. I've only ever managed this feat about three times - all with "big" engines. ....I may have to pop some idea of inside motion has anyone photos of whats there on Butler Henderson as I guess it would be similar. Peter K. used to sell (as did Exactoscale) cast cranks, turned eccentrics and a full inside motion fret which had its origins with Rod Neep - my understanding was that, even though marketed as being of generic use, this was all designed to go into a GC Director chassis anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 The A5 body is Craftsman, I understand PDK are going to do a kit soon, The Bill Bedford chassis has resin springs, brake shoes and hangers. David Thanks David, I will keep my eye on this thread then to see what tips I can pick up. Mine won't P4 though (although I am not sure if that's an advantage or not). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I checked the Skinley drawing I have Dave - that is plainly wrong as it shows a narrow bunker! You can see from the pic you posted that the bunker back should be wider than that in the kit, almost if not the same width of the main tanks. I estimated the extra width from the length of buffer beam outside of the buffer housings! John quick very kindly pointed out the error in my first A5... Cheers Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 I checked the Skinley drawing I have Dave - that is plainly wrong as it shows a narrow bunker! You can see from the pic you posted that the bunker back should be wider than that in the kit, almost if not the same width of the main tanks. I estimated the extra width from the length of buffer beam outside of the buffer housings! John quick very kindly pointed out the error in my first A5... Cheers Tony I do think the bunker is too narrow although I have looked at quite a few photos and don’t think its that far out, maybe 1-2mm at the most so I may well leave alone, Has anyone corrected it anyway if so how did you do it. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 This is worrying that you can't get chassis to run smoothly using the Avonside jig. Recently I've built four locos using John Brighton's methods, and all have run smoothly without tweaking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share Posted June 17, 2010 This is worrying that you can't get chassis to run smoothly using the Avonside jig. Recently I've built four locos using John Brighton's methods, and all have run smoothly without tweaking. The Avonside jig will set the chassis square and set the coupling rods to the axle centres, so that will mean that either the coupling rods will need easing (I use 1.6mm crankpins) so they need opening out a bit anyway or the quartering is not quite there. I also pop the wheels in the lathe and ease the centres a bit with a reamer to allow the wheels to be pushed on without cracking the boss which happens with tight Gibson wheels. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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