Track painting and ballast

[jhock]

Hope you don't mind if I share my attempts at track painting and ballasting:

 

 

I want a realistic look but I don't want to spend to long time doing it.

 

I sprayed the track black with a Games Workshop spray, they all have scary names, in this case Chaos Black. I then dry brushed on brown games workshop paint (Bestial Brown) and did the same much a lighter brown (not sure what this one is called).

 

The ballast is Woodland Scenics fine cinders, sprayed with water and then diluted PVA dropped on.

 

Comments welcome.

[Miss Prism]

Great ballasting, but on the colour, I would say you've overdone it with the light brown. There needs to be a lot more grey in the timbers in my opinion.

[jhock]

Great ballasting, but on the colour, I would say you've overdone it with the light brown. There needs to be a lot more grey in the timbers in my opinion.

 

I did think that myself, it looks much more brown in the picture than it does to my eyes. However I might try a further dry brushing of light grey to see if that brings out the timber better.

 

I have also just noticed the little bits of flash on the end of the sleepers, did not seem them until I took the photo.

[beast66606]

Don't make the ballast too uniform in colour, the real stuff has all sorts of tones.

 

hth

[zarniwhoop]

I want a realistic look but I don't want to spend to long time doing it.

 

Ah, you want a holy grail! Unfortunately, most things in modelling benefit from spending unreasonable amounts of time on them.

 

Your rails - very plausible for a heavily used line. Your ballast - very fine, I like that. Difficulty deciding on the ballast colour, it looks a bit murky brown on my monitor which is probably very realistic for many places - I'm guessing you ballasted first, then sprayed the rails and the ballast ? As others have said, I don't like the sleepers - unless this is a preserved line with modern timber - but I'd go for a *dark* colour if it's a well-maintained line. Wouldn't worry about the flash on the ends of the sleepers, in real life nobody will notice.

 

??en

[jhock]

Ah, you want a holy grail! Unfortunately, most things in modelling benefit from spending unreasonable amounts of time on them.

 

Your rails - very plausible for a heavily used line. Your ballast - very fine, I like that. Difficulty deciding on the ballast colour, it looks a bit murky brown on my monitor which is probably very realistic for many places - I'm guessing you ballasted first, then sprayed the rails and the ballast ? As others have said, I don't like the sleepers - unless this is a preserved line with modern timber - but I'd go for a *dark* colour if it's a well-maintained line. Wouldn't worry about the flash on the ends of the sleepers, in real life nobody will notice.

 

??en

 

Hi Ken,

 

the track was sprayed before ballasting, the ballast is very dark colour (almost black), on reflection it might be to dark. I will post some pics later but I have dry brushed to light grey to the track and it looks much better. I have got some raw umber that I will apply railes and chairs to get them to look rusty.

[craigwelsh]

Did you paint the far track before bending to shape as the rail looks to have moved and left shiny bits?

 

Personally I don't use my Games Workshop paints for track painting.

 

I do undercoat with Chaos Black but then use Precision paints track colour spray. Then lay ballast (I use the sort of light cream woodland scenics one). Then mask the sleepers either side of the rail and apply rusty rails, it should bleed through to the ballast under the rail like real rust. Its probably not as apparent today but in South Wales in steam days you see this alot in pictures, mainly due to the rain I guess!

 

Then you can get out the paints and deal with individual sleepers and grease the fishplates etc.

 

Vomit brown may be a better choice, bestial is quite a medium brown and probably better for highlights.

 

Neat ballasting though and you went for the right size.

[jhock]

Did you paint the far track before bending to shape as the rail looks to have moved and left shiny bits?

 

Personally I don't use my Games Workshop paints for track painting.

 

I do undercoat with Chaos Black but then use Precision paints track colour spray. Then lay ballast (I use the sort of light cream woodland scenics one). Then mask the sleepers either side of the rail and apply rusty rails, it should bleed through to the ballast under the rail like real rust. Its probably not as apparent today but in South Wales in steam days you see this alot in pictures, mainly due to the rain I guess!

 

Then you can get out the paints and deal with individual sleepers and grease the fishplates etc.

 

Vomit brown may be a better choice, bestial is quite a medium brown and probably better for highlights.

 

Neat ballasting though and you went for the right size.

 

The shiny bits are a bit of trick of the light, it is the white of the baseboard showing through as the picture is taken at an angle.

 

Thanks for the tips I will apply them to the rest of the layout.

[mikemeg]

Just over a couple of years ago, I did some experimenting with track painting and ballasting. You may find the following of use :-

 

All of my sleepers are 1/16th obechi, which I cut and dye myself. OK most people wouldn't do that so if you're using proprietary track then that aspect is not relevant.

 

For ballasting 4mm track I use 'n' gauge ballast; 'OO' is just too coarse. The ballast is actually granite chippings, fixed with diluted pva, after 'misting' the ballast. This turns a very odd shade of green when wetted, so must be painted.

 

All track was ballasted before a rail was laid, including the turnouts, which were hand built; all of this track, which is 18.83 mm gauge, is hand built.

 

The ballast was first painted grey, simply using very diluted white emulsion, coloured with water colours. This dries perfectly impervious to water and, if sufficiently diluted, does not 'clog' the stones of the ballast.

 

After the grey, various colours - again using the very diluted white emulsion (those sample pots that any DIY outfit sells) as the base, coloured with water colours - are flicked across the whole ballasted area, simply picking out highlights - white, black, beige, light and dark brown.

 

The whole process, for this seven foot length of four track main line took two days; I leave you to judge whether it was worth it. Far be it from me to offer advice, but there is no quick way (though this isn't difficult) to achieving that realism of the prototype.

 

The second photograph probably gives a better impression of the results of this process.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Guest Digital]

Just over a couple of years ago, I did some experimenting with track painting and ballasting. You may find the following of use :-

 

All of my sleepers are 1/16th obechi, which I cut and dye myself. OK most people wouldn't do that so if you're using proprietary track then that aspect is not relevant.

 

For ballasting 4mm track I use 'n' gauge ballast; 'OO' is just too coarse. The ballast is actually granite chippings, fixed with diluted pva, after 'misting' the ballast. This turns a very odd shade of green when wetted, so must be painted.

 

All track was ballasted before a rail was laid, including the turnouts, which were hand built.

 

The ballast was firat painted grey, simply using very diluted white emulsion, coloured with water colours. This dries perfectly impervious to water and, if sufficiently diluted, does not 'clog' the stones of the ballast.

 

After the grey, various coulours are flicked across the whole ballasted area, simply picking out highlights - white, black, beige, light and dark brown.

 

The whole process, for this seven foot length of four track main line took two days; I leave you to judge whether it was worth it.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Looks great mike well worth the effort

John

[newport_rod]

All track was ballasted before a rail was laid, including the turnouts, which were hand built; all of this track, which is 18.83 mm gauge, is hand built.

 

 

Mike - how did you proceed from there? Plastic chairs glued to the obechi sleepers? It looks excellent whatever you did.

 

The ballast was first painted grey, simply using very diluted white emulsion, coloured with water colours. This dries perfectly impervious to water and, if sufficiently diluted, does not 'clog' the stones of the ballast.

 

After the grey, various colours - again using the very diluted white emulsion (those sample pots that any DIY outfit sells) as the base, coloured with water colours - are flicked across the whole ballasted area, simply picking out highlights - white, black, beige, light and dark brown.

 

This produces a very convincing finish - as beast66606 mentioned ealier a substantial degree of colour variation is necessary. For a station area though I think a darker finish would be a little more appropriate.

[ajdown]

For a station area though I think a darker finish would be a little more appropriate.

 

 

If you're doing a "modern" layout don't forget to leave oil stains and dark patches on the track where locos would be stopped at signals too. Or if you're feeling particularly adventurous, a few tomato plants growing in the "four foot"!

[mikemeg]

Mike - how did you proceed from there? Plastic chairs glued to the obechi sleepers? It looks excellent whatever you did.

 

 

 

This produces a very convincing finish - as beast66606 mentioned ealier a substantial degree of colour variation is necessary. For a station area though I think a darker finish would be a little more appropriate.

 

Yes plastic chairs glued to the obechi sleepers. One thing I did do was to soak the section of the sleeper - where the chair would sit - in mek pak and allow it to soak into the obechi, prior to then gluing the chair - just helps with adhesion. Strangely, this process also affects the dye, creating pools of rust around the chair.

 

If I were modelling a station area, even in steam days, then I would darken the thing with more dark browns and some nice oily stains, plus some brown stains where passengers had failed to heed the 'do not flush while the train is stationary' signs in the toilets (moderators, this is all in pursuit of realism, not smutty).

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[newport_rod]

Actually it is a steam era layout (with a station) that we're planning - but I'm not too sure about the brown stains - maybe a few bits of paper though! But (more seriously) oil drips and brake dust where trains stopped need to form part of the story.

 

Have you (Mike) had cause to make any adjustments to the track since you laid it? If so how? My main trepidation with that track-laying method is the difficulty of making adjustments compared to a soldered construction.

[mikemeg]

Actually it is a steam era layout (with a station) that we're planning - but I'm not too sure about the brown stains - maybe a few bits of paper though! But (more seriously) oil drips and brake dust where trains stopped need to form part of the story.

 

Have you (Mike) had cause to make any adjustments to the track since you laid it? If so how? My main trepidation with that track-laying method is the difficulty of making adjustments compared to a soldered construction.

 

No I haven't had to make any adjustments to the track since it was laid. I do, occasionally have to clean the rails but I guess that's just normal maintainance. I've been very pleased with the way this track has stood up and really haven't experienced any problems. Bear in mind, though, that I don't run anything very often (hence the need to clean the rails) - I spend most of my 'train time' actually building them rather than operating them - so the track really hasn't had a serious work out.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Pete the Elaner]

I agree with the comments on colour. The sleepers look a little too brown to me. Ballast looks fine, but the sleepers make it look wrong.

I've also given up using PVA because it's a resin . This makes running trains very noisy & you always seem to get ballast granules falling off when moving the layout.

I also used to find that PVA gave the ballast a green tinge. Maybe it is the ballast I used to use but also possibly the colour of the detergent I added to reduce surface tension.

 

I've recently started using Copydex & it is a huge improvement, mainly because it dries rubbery. I insist that the washing up liquid I add must be pink.

 

Most ballast I've seen is either pink or grey & also agree that it is rarely uniform.

 

A gentle dusting with brown should then blend it all in.

 

I've got more experimenting to do with weathering & ballasting before choosing the final solution for my current project.

[Karhedron]

Most ballast I've seen is either pink or grey & also agree that it is rarely uniform.

Depends on the location. Ballast on the GWR was usually a light brown/buff colour. On the Cotswold line it was almost golden, probably local cotswold stone.

[R A Watson]

The colour of ballast can be very subjective. up to about thirty years ago there were many relatively local quarries and ballast came from the nearest.The chamge came roughly the same time or slightly later than wholesale dieselisation, having said that the ballast lingered on the track much longer than the locos. Even here in the deep south west we had three quarries in operation Menheniot in Cornwall, Stoneycombe between Totnes and Newton Abbott, both on the G W /W R section and the now better known Meldon on the Southern. This gave the situation that on the western lines in Cornwall (and into the Plymouth area) the slightly slate grey (Menheniot) stone was prevelent and the redder Stoneycombe took over from the Hemerdon area towards London, until of course Menhenniot closed and Stoneycombe supplied the whole area. Meldon stone was then restricted to ex S R lines only, both in Devon and Cornwall and the rest of the Southern world up the hill past Exeter Central.

 

Nowadays stone does not come from quarries, but a big pile (which never seems to run out) at Westbury. I believe this is in fact topped up, under cover of darkness to confuse the enthusiast, by various sources including Meldon leading to an inconsistant colour.

 

Wally

[Karhedron]

I've also given up using PVA because it's a resin . This makes running trains very noisy & you always seem to get ballast granules falling off when moving the layout.

I understand the issue with PVA creating a solid lump. Some modellers have done very nice work using Klear instead of dilute PVA so I have got a couple of bottles to try this on my WIP layout. Sticking the track down with copydex instead of PVA also seems to work well as it dries slightly rubbery.

 

I also used to find that PVA gave the ballast a green tinge. Maybe it is the ballast I used to use but also possibly the colour of the detergent I added to reduce surface tension.

 

I have herad that the colour change is a chemical reaction due to something in the granite. In theory if you use either a non-granite stone or one of the synthetic types of ballast you should avoid the greening problem. Apparently adding a few drops of IPA instead washing up liquid is also a very effective way to reduce surface tension.

[Kenton]

I have heard that the colour change is a chemical reaction due to something in the granite.

I have only found this greening with commercial ballast and then only the grey variety.

 

I have for many years made my own, from a lump of pinkish granite, it is a bit like a victorian punishment - but does it not half reduce the tensions of the day.

 

I wonder if it is some chemical they use in the processing which reacts with the grey granite, or just a trick of the light?

[gordon s]

I've been given a slightly different method by Capn Kernow of this Parish and it really works well. I find it easy to achieve decent results and it totally does away with the water/pva/spray method. It involves painting neat PVA between the sleepers and you can see/read this approach in my layout thread...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3422-eastwood-town-update

[The Black Hat]

When painting track how much of the railhead needs to be still clear so that the engines pick up power from the rails. I am using a DCC system to power sound locomotives, but am having teething trouble and could do with some advice. As a result of this some engines are running fine on straight plain track but they are sticking on points mainly. How much of these should be done, as think leaving the blades clear stands out a bit. Essencially the question is - how much of the rail should be clear, and where should rails be untouched?

[Kenton]

When painting track how much of the railhead needs to be still clear so that the engines pick up power from the rails. I am using a DCC system to power sound locomotives, but am having teething trouble and could do with some advice. As a result of this some engines are running fine on straight plain track but they are sticking on points mainly. How much of these should be done, as think leaving the blades clear stands out a bit. Essencially the question is - how much of the rail should be clear, and where should rails be untouched?

 

It depends a bit on how you have wired your points.

Have you electrically bonded the switch rails to their adjacent stock rails (best practice) or are you relying on the contact point of the switch rail - if that is the case then the slightest bit of paint or even dirt is going to cause you potential problems in either DC or DCC.

 

Generally though, both the top surface and the inside of the top of the rail needs to be clean of paint and dirt. This may be even more noticeable on curves where there may be a tendency of the wheel profile to lift the flat off the rail top.

 

But do not forget to make sure the wheels are clean - especially if you have been using one of those grotty rubbers to scrape away paint from the surface of the rail. Bits of the rubber and the paint will get everywhere.

[The Black Hat]

Im relying on point of contact with the rails, although not all of the blades or rails where there is a connection have been painted. A lot of the area there has been left blank so should be providing a connection. Some of the problem i think is coming from the fact that the locomotives are stopping on the frogs on the points rather than the areas where the painting was bad. Some engines are making it over smoothly, others not so. Im trying to get all locomotives to run with two bars of movement on the dynamsis system but thinking that with them having sound too this might bring them to a stand sooner as they need a better connection for power. Am I right in thinking this, as at the moment Im thinking that ballasting might make it worse....

[Will Vale]

Some modellers have done very nice work using Klear instead of dilute PVA so I have got a couple of bottles to try this on my WIP layout.

 

I've used Klear for ballast and some scenic touch-up work on a small layout and I'd definitely recommend giving it a try. It's much quicker than dilute PVA (which I was previously happy with) both to apply and to dry. The applying in particular is great - I just grab my jam jar and eye dropper and go for it - no spraying as it wets very well as-is. It does darken the ballast slightly (probably because of the slightly shiny finish) but not unacceptably so. Dry brushing and a bit of weathering seemed to kill most of the gloss I could see.

 

This is how it was straight after applying. You can see some of the "dry" ballast mix on the slip of card to get a feel for how much the colour changed. The ballast was Hornby fine buff I think, mixed with MIG powders which may account for the colour change as well.

 

 

This is how it ended up. There's still a hint of gloss, but it's not really noticeable in the flesh. At least not unless I put my reading glasses on

 

 

I'm intending to have a go at using Klear on a bigger layout, fingers crossed it turns out OK.

 

Will