tc Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Tom, you have made it almost impossible to divine its origins and I salute you! It is a sad commentary on our times that few if any modellers would know how to do the job now and fewer still would even contemplate it. Chris I've dropped a quick blog on the MRC website here http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/blog/entry/class-127-dmu outlining how I did the conversion, I suspect there are more considered descriptions elsewhere. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I've dropped a quick blog on the MRC website here http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/blog/entry/class-127-dmu outlining how I did the conversion, I suspect there are more considered descriptions elsewhere. Tom This is very helpful, and thanks for the link. I've been comtemplating similar butchery on Lima DMU's for a while, but was unsure whether to just cut out parts of the sides, and move them about, or as I think you have done cut complete sections including the roof as well. I can see that just cutting sides you'd lose or mess up the fine line of rivets just below the cantrail, but then the final result would be a bit stronger as it had an intact roof. I'd welcome any views you have on this. Many thanks, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains4U Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Minories (GN) is set up, and ready for the bright and early start. SInce its last outing we have a new signal gantry with searchlight signals, and a new signal cabin. http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/blog/entry/on-our-way-to-peterborough And more importantly Hugh and I have recharged our batteries with a good meal at the Grain Barge... Looking forward to finding time to look at the Nelvation in action and am tempted by the Severn Models workshop set. Say hi if you are coming - we're on stand 112, or follow us @minorieslayout Given what little time I had to look around the show, I have to say this was one of my favourite layouts - I just wish I'd had more than the 3 or 4 minutes available to watch it more closely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I've been comtemplating similar butchery on Lima DMU's for a while, but was unsure whether to just cut out parts of the sides, and move them about, or as I think you have done cut complete sections including the roof as well. I can see that just cutting sides you'd lose or mess up the fine line of rivets just below the cantrail, but then the final result would be a bit stronger as it had an intact roof. I'd welcome any views you have on this. John - I tried this making the DMS for the 116 using this method, replacing the brake van section of a DMBS with the Silver Fox resin side pieces sold to make the correct 117 DMS. I struggled to get a clean cut on both sides of the saw - I got a clean line on edge of the roof to fix the new side piece to, but a less clean line on the side I had removed. I don't think I'd have been able to re-use the side pieces without plenty of filler, and yes it damages the rivet detail. I've found the strength is enough with some decent glue and reinforcing strips down the inside, especially if you can keep the end sections intact to prove some structure. Just to prove it, during a running session before the show, the Class 127 TSL took a tumble off the front of the layout onto the tile floor at the club - it knocked out most of the glazing and the body separated from the chassis but the body remained intact. I'm hoping not to repeat that stress-test... Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted October 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2015 Here's a slightly fuzzy picture of Andy in his temporary office. AndyEdits.jpg Since he is sitting on a distribution box, it really IS an electric chair! i knew i'd seen that pose before, cant decide if.... your not the messiah, your a very naughty boy or if your auditioning for book of mormon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted October 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2015 I went again this year. Disappointed that there is no seniors concession (yes, I qualify now). Thought the positioning of stands in the small hall was most odd. The main hall was OK. found the sound on the G gauge layout too intrusive, the operation of it was also poor at times with one operator trying to talk to visitors and operate at the same time ending up with at least one derailment. One layout was suffering too much from the big hand in the sky to prod loco's into life. Generally not too bad though but came away feeling a bit let down for some reason. Very taken with the Nelevation demo. Nothing there really made me want to stop and watch for any real length of time apart from the trams and cyclist already mentioned. Don't get me wrong as there was some lovely modelling on show. Wondered what had happened to the idea of talks as they seemed popular in the past. Food was ridiculously expensive so didn't bother and had a bite to eat at home about 10 minutes after leaving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 yes, i was very very impressed with the nelevation demo. Really a very impressive demonstration of what it is they are aiming to do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 yes, i was very very impressed with the nelevation demo. Really a very impressive demonstration of what it is they are aiming to do I was too, until I checked the price on the website when I got home.... Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 John - I tried this making the DMS for the 116 using this method, replacing the brake van section of a DMBS with the Silver Fox resin side pieces sold to make the correct 117 DMS. I struggled to get a clean cut on both sides of the saw - I got a clean line on edge of the roof to fix the new side piece to, but a less clean line on the side I had removed. I don't think I'd have been able to re-use the side pieces without plenty of filler, and yes it damages the rivet detail. I've found the strength is enough with some decent glue and reinforcing strips down the inside, especially if you can keep the end sections intact to prove some structure. Just to prove it, during a running session before the show, the Class 127 TSL took a tumble off the front of the layout onto the tile floor at the club - it knocked out most of the glazing and the body separated from the chassis but the body remained intact. I'm hoping not to repeat that stress-test... Tom Many thanks for your very prompt response. This is extremely helpful, in my view you can't beat real experience from someone who's actually done it! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I was too, until I checked the price on the website when I got home.... Stewart My sentiments entirely when I got home and first looked at the price list. However, I then thought a bit more and worked out the cost (for N) of 36 points, motors and switches, at least £20x36 and probably more, plus more again for 30 yards of track (with the 4ft 6in version). So the Nelevation is actually cheaper, not to mention the space saving. I should say I'm thinking of a project in Continental N for the future. I guess my other thought, bearing in mind this is a totally new product, is what problems might emerge in use, and if they'd be repairable. If not you'd be in some trouble! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2015 I went again this year. Disappointed that there is no seniors concession (yes, I qualify now). Senior concessions are now a fast disappearing feature of shows. I think the Farnham club explained it very nicely when outlining why they made the decision not to have them this year - in summary:- our costs are rising, but we didn't want to make a general price increase, many visitors are seniors, therefore we decided to improve revenue by ending the concessionary price for seniors. All of which struck me as a logical and well reasoned move and when you think about it for many shows the cost of actually getting in is only a part of your total day's expenditure although obviously that varies between individuals. In my case - although the journey time is too great - I could get to/from the Peterborough show for nothing, but it would mean an early start and getting home late so I would need to spend more on refreshments as I would like some hot food & drink on a long day out, compared to that a few quid on the entry price would be irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colney123 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 While walking round the exhibition on Saturday I spied a model shop owner from the past Mr Blunt from Blunts models mill hill nw7 based on the mill hill circus roundabout , Bunt's have been shut down for at least 15 years to my knowledge , for my sins I thought he must have died years ago (it's alright he doesn't even own a computer to see this.) but he is still going and just getting back in to trains after a long period he must be in his 90's, wondered if there were many on here who remember the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted October 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2015 Senior concessions are now a fast disappearing feature of shows. I think the Farnham club explained it very nicely when outlining why they made the decision not to have them this year - in summary:- our costs are rising, but we didn't want to make a general price increase, many visitors are seniors, therefore we decided to improve revenue by ending the concessionary price for seniors. At our small local village show a few weeks ago we also removed the concession - it was noticeable that the ticket numbers for Child/OAP dropped from a combined 309 to 37 for child only. At the large Derby show at The Roundhouse there are no concessions and children are free - we might do the same at the small show as well as it would create goodwill for our family visitors as only the adults would pay - this would only cost us about £100 and might encourage more visitors - if more than 25 extra adults come we are actually better off ! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trains4U Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think free child entry (at Warners shows) would be a great idea. I didn't spot an enormous number of children, but it is them who we ought to be encouraging into the hobby. Free child entry might encourage more parents/grandparents to attend, who otherwise might not go on their own, or can't justify their own ticket inaddition to the children - whilst at the same time encouraging new entrants. It might end up generating greater revenues... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think free child entry (at Warners shows) would be a great idea. I didn't spot an enormous number of children, but it is them who we ought to be encouraging into the hobby. Free child entry might encourage more parents/grandparents to attend, who otherwise might not go on their own, or can't justify their own ticket inaddition to the children - whilst at the same time encouraging new entrants. It might end up generating greater revenues... I think it would be a good idea judging by what can be seen at All Pally (the only Warners show I attend nowadays) as there are very obviously families who come along to see what it is all about and it would be good to encourage even more of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 As a first time exhibitor at Peterborough, I'd just like to say that we had a great time there, we were well looked after and hopefully well received. The show? Sorry didn't really get to see that much of it, anyone stuck behind a layout will know the feeling, but what I did see I enjoyed and came away with a few ideas...... There's some video that one of the Grime Street team took (of Grime Street) whilst we were there on my blog for anyone interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think it would be a good idea judging by what can be seen at All Pally (the only Warners show I attend nowadays) as there are very obviously families who come along to see what it is all about and it would be good to encourage even more of them. I agree but it also takes some evangelising to get people along. I took my son year before last and as we have friends who live near Ally Pally, I suggested they bring their six year old along. My friend was sceptical about going but thoroughly enjoyed it. By no stretch a rail enthusiast, but a keen woodworker, he was intrigued by both the demonstrations of how the scenery and boards were put together as well as the scale/vision of some of the exhibits. The DDay harbour layout was particularly admired. They'll come again with us next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2015 yes, i was very very impressed with the nelevation demo. Really a very impressive demonstration of what it is they are aiming to do I was too, until I checked the price on the website when I got home.... Stewart My sentiments entirely when I got home and first looked at the price list. However, I then thought a bit more and worked out the cost (for N) of 36 points, motors and switches, at least £20x36 and probably more, plus more again for 30 yards of track (with the 4ft 6in version). So the Nelevation is actually cheaper, not to mention the space saving. I should say I'm thinking of a project in Continental N for the future. I guess my other thought, bearing in mind this is a totally new product, is what problems might emerge in use, and if they'd be repairable. If not you'd be in some trouble! John. Surely the main attraction is space saving not how many points it replaces? I view it simply as a vertical traverser saving considerable horizontal space at baseboard level. I does need considerable headroom however. Seems to be putting into production similar things that some modellers have done in the past. IMHO this would be a better idea: http://www.aston.ac.uk/50/history/paternoster-lifts/ I remember that one well! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Surely the main attraction is space saving not how many points it replaces? I view it simply as a vertical traverser saving considerable horizontal space at baseboard level. I does need considerable headroom however. Seems to be putting into production similar things that some modellers have done in the past. IMHO this would be a better idea: http://www.aston.ac.uk/50/history/paternoster-lifts/ I remember that one well! Keith I remember the one at Peterborough hospital (now demolished). At the time I was a radio engineer looking after the emergency services, we took on the local Ambulance radio who had a radio site up on the roof. When visiting the site, (2 of us usually), I had to carry a test set (equivalent to a small suitcase without wheels) and a metal toolcase as well as a leather (BT type) toolbag. We were confronted with this monstrosity, and we had to get in and out of it whilst moving - not easy! But then the trek up the stairs (was it 6 floors?) was equally as bad - we only did that once. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 When I was a kid, a friends Dad used to work in one of the drawing offices at C Parsons in Heaton. One Saturday we went into work with him and was amazed to see the paternosters in the offices. You can see them in use during the first couple of minutes of this film. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/parsons-genius-of-power-reel-2-also-known-as They look like fun us kids thought... We use the stairs his Dad insisted! Years later I think it was the university that took over the building and it didn't take long for the younger generation to start using the lifts to their full potential by going over the top and completing a full circuit. It didn't take long for the inevitable to happen. Result: Decommissioned paternosters. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I remember the one at Peterborough hospital (now demolished). At the time I was a radio engineer looking after the emergency services, we took on the local Ambulance radio who had a radio site up on the roof. When visiting the site, (2 of us usually), I had to carry a test set (equivalent to a small suitcase without wheels) and a metal toolcase as well as a leather (BT type) toolbag. We were confronted with this monstrosity, and we had to get in and out of it whilst moving - not easy! But then the trek up the stairs (was it 6 floors?) was equally as bad - we only did that once. Stewart yep was 6 floors for wards and a bit on top, most is still standing as they seem to be taking an age to pull it down there are still loads of antenna strapped to the roof Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Prior to this event there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth because of the perceived animosity of exhibitors and traders to the "early start". I have seen no comment since the show, and wondered how well it worked in practice. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Prior to this event there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth because of the perceived animosity of exhibitors and traders to the "early start". I have seen no comment since the show, and wondered how well it worked in practice. Ed Sadly totally pointless, as personally no more people were attracted to the show. Gaydon the week before had 5000+ with a normal start. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2015 Sadly totally pointless, as personally no more people were attracted to the show. Gaydon the week before had 5000+ with a normal start. Charlie I think an early start probably only really makes any sense when you have a good size local catchment area - with 'serious' exhibitions many of the punters have to travel to get there and around this time of year many might not be so keen on an early start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bourneagain Posted October 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2015 Was there a long queue at Peterborough before the doors opened, as when I arrived just after 09.15 I walked straight in. In previous years, arriving at the same time it’s taken over 15mins to get in after the doors opened, even longer if you are at the back of the queue. I wonder if Doncaster will also be an early start and will there be changes to the ticket structure that gives us hard copy subscribers a better deal? We shall find out on Friday, when the booking opens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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