Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

Camera batteries flat and can't find the charger.  So, words must suffice:

 

All converging routes are current off stage.

 

We have the following routes into Castle Aching:

 

1) Mainline north to the Birchoverhams and the north Norfolk coast

 

branching from which:

 

2) Branch line east to Achingham

 

3) Branch line north west to Wolfringham and a junction with the GE Lynn & Hunstanton line to the south of GE Wolferton Stn

 

branching from which:

 

4) GE&WN Joint Committee Bishop's Lynn Tramway

 

Continuing north up the mainline,

 

5) Junction with the M&GN just north of the WN station at Massingham Magna.  The junction runs south from the M&GN's Lynn & Fakenham line, just west of the M&GN's Massingham stn.  Remember, Massingham is where one Ps Softly. 

 

Massingham Magna marks the boundary of the WN's Southern Section.  The continuation of the mainline, the workshops, and various other branches, including the absorbed and rather run-down North Norfolk Coast Ry, that converge on Birchoverham Market, lie in the WN's Northern Section.

 

6) There is also supposed to be a junction somewhere with the Aching Hall Estate Railway

 

All these connections are off-stage, except, if I extend around the room.  If I do that, the line to Achingham would be modelled, but everywhere else would continue to be represented by a cassette yard .

[Donw]

One of my favourites is the 16mm live steamers run in the garden (line has to be built since the move)  no problem with pick up but even then on the old radio controls you could get all sorts of problems although the newer 2.4GHz stuff seems much more reliable. The worse problem was when you couldn't stop it. Mind you can get that with a manually controlled one. Chasing a loco which is going too fast is a novel form of exercise particularly of lines where the track is behind prickly plants in places.

Where there is on board power there remains the issue of how is it controlled and any loss of control means a runaway loco. Nothing is perfect. Track pick up means you can remove the track power preventing runaways.

 

Relying on track joiners and blade contact for continuity often works very well but once you start ballasting and dribbling dilute PVA all over it it can affect the electrics. I speak from experience here.

 

One engine in steam is such a boring way to operate a layout that apart from something very simple like an inglenook plan I would not consider it. Full size it would only be practical if trains ran to the junction which would need to be a complex station and there was just a shuttle service from there to CA. Not something that would suit Edwardian. 

 

In case anyone is in doubt a suitable DC scheme for CA is fairly easy to arrange.

Don

Edited September 29, 2017 by Donw

[Edwardian]

Went shopping.  If I don't make some purchasing decisions, this track business will not get started.

 

Hopefully this stuff will arrive next week, so track laying can commence next weekend.

 

I have ordered some cork underlay from Charles Cantrill (thanks, Kevin) and have gone for the luxurious deep-pile option of 3/16s depth.  I believe that is around 4.5mm in New Money, so about what I was aiming for with the foam-board.

 

While I don't doubt that this depth is unnecessary from an engineering perspective, it gives me the depth I wanted for forming the land around the track.

 

I also ordered the following from SMP/Marcway:

 

- Code 75 BH rail (I already have FB)

 

- More standard length sleepers (in case I interlace the points sleepers)

 

- Some longer PCB strip (in case I don't).

 

What I have yet to do is order cosmetic chairs from C&L.  That is a further expense that I shall defer.

[uax6]

I agree that one engine in steam is not as fulfilling as having many wandering about, but if we are creating a model world, then even the railway has to work economically. Having lots of locos about will be expensive.

 

Infact, at this conjunction its probably the correct time to think about the timetable before any track gets laid. If we can get a plusable TT written then the p-way dept can get the isolating sections in the correct places, the CME can get the correct stock for the services, and the Loco Dept can make sure that the rosters for the crews and the engine diagrams are correct.

 

How is CA going to be operated? I quite like operating by 'clock'. A friends layout is a timed railway. When I say timed I mean that every movement (that is if you stop and change direction, if you attach a vehicle, if you run round, etc) 'costs' 3 mins. He has homemade clocks that every little move of the hand is calibrated at 3 mins. His timetable is drawn out correctly so that each train should be able to move in its timetabled path (which of course will be longer than 3 mins!), and then with the addition of multisided dice you can add intrest with extra trains etc.

 

This method of working is perfect for this sort of layout, and brings a measure of reality...

 

Andy G

[mullie]

I went DCC around 13 years ago and even though I only build small layouts I wouldn't now do it any other way. The ability to fine tune individual locos as well as modelling loco yards without sections is a massive advantage. If starting out or if you only have a small roster definitely the best way in my view, there are decoders for pretty much every application now and they are cheaper than they used to be.

 

Thirteen years ago, some people said you couldn't use DCC with handbuilt track, that also proved to be wrong!

 

Martyn

[Edwardian]

 

Infact, at this conjunction its probably the correct time to think about the timetable before any track gets laid. If we can get a plusable TT written then the p-way dept can get the isolating sections in the correct places, the CME can get the correct stock for the services, and the Loco Dept can make sure that the rosters for the crews and the engine diagrams are correct.

 

 

 

 

Hmm ...

 

We would need to have certain types of service, based on what we know of the places concerned.

 

Take Achingham, for example.

 

I can't help thinking in "Great Western", so you may need to translate.

 

Achingham is a town, think "Fakenham", and is, therefore, a larger place than CA, though it is at the end of a branch.  So, I think of it like Kingsbridge, a place of greater significance than South Brent.  So, like, e.g. Ashburton, I would expect a fairly frequent branch passenger service of, say, 6 trains each way daily.

 

For goods, I image a train comes into CA and traffic is re-marshalled to go to Achingham, or one of the other branches, each of which would,presumably, need a daily goods service.

 

Wolfringham will, by contrast, have a scant passenger service. 

 

Bishop's Lynn would be somewhere between the 2.

 

For general goods traffic, I imagine that the Wolfringham branch might use mixed trains.  The same might happen on the tramway from Lynn.

 

Mainline passenger services would all go between CA and Birchoverham Market.  They might go on to Birchoverham Next the Sea (a major resort (think "Cromer") that attracts much through traffic), or elsewhere.

 

We talked about coal shipped via sea to Wolfringham Staithe.

 

The Midland Railway will run through services from the Midlands via Saxby - Bourne.  A M&GN locomotive will take the service onward. 

 

The GE will run a daily service off the Lynn-Hunstanton line.

 

The orientation of the GE and M&GN junctions means that the service will run to CA, and there reverse before heading up the mainline to the resort of Birchoverham Next the Sea.    

 

Now, this might sound a lot given the sparse facilities of CA.  The aim is not necessarily to operate a very intensive service.  Rather, it is to justify the maximum variety of traffic, locos and stock possible for such a little station!

Edited September 29, 2017 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

When trying to dream-up timetables for imaginary places, I usually start by trying to think why, and when, people might want to travel between said places, then try to construct a schedule that meets their wants. Similarly what might be wanted in terms of goods services.

 

Just as in reality, this never works!

 

It gives rise to trains that run full one way, and empty the other, conflicts at junctions, excessive numbers of engines, carriages and crew, etc. So, the desirable schedule has to be turned into the economically operable one ...... which contains awkwardly times trains, long waits for connections, last trains home that seem absurdly early in the evening etc, exactly as in reality.

 

Time consuming, pointless, and hugely entertaining! It's a bit like crossword puzzles or sudoku.

[Regularity]

Another factor to consider is the impact of reduction in working hours, particularly with the extra time required for engine preparation and disposal, which could reduce the available time for engines to be ready, pushing early starts to a bit later in the day, and last trains to earlier, without needing too many engine crews.

 

Of course, that further reduced the appeal of public transport, without subsidies, which would be paid by everyone for the benefit of very few people only some (very little) of the time.

[BG John]

I went DCC around 13 years ago and even though I only build small layouts I wouldn't now do it any other way. The ability to fine tune individual locos as well as modelling loco yards without sections is a massive advantage. If starting out or if you only have a small roster definitely the best way in my view, there are decoders for pretty much every application now and they are cheaper than they used to be.

 

Thirteen years ago, some people said you couldn't use DCC with handbuilt track, that also proved to be wrong!

 

Martyn

That's pretty much why I'm going for radio control. Even better, as the layout needs absolutely no wiring at all . Unless you want motorised points, which should be pretty straightforward using servos. I've got a layout with all the track laid, but incomplete wiring meant it was some way off working. Once my RC gear is working, I can just bung a loco on the track, and off it will go! I could have been playing trains once the glue was dry on the first length of track, if only it had been planned for RC from the start.

[runs as required]

I know that I ask this about once a month, but can we have a map aga in, please? I keep forgetting where the three routes into CA converge, and can never find the map. What I'm wondering is whether the point of convergence is within 'station limits', or whether the junction has a block post.

The best map I can find within period (1904) is this early use of a bar diagram by the M&GN

but it doesn't deign to include the WNR (but then neither does it recognise the GER)

 

Is the Management aware of touristy 'Poppyland' just to the east of Castle Aching

dh

[Edwardian]

The best map I can find within period (1904) is this early use of a bar diagram by the M&GN

M&GN map.jpg

but it doesn't deign to include the WNR (but then neither does it recognise the GER)

 

Is the Management aware of touristy 'Poppyland' just to the east of Castle Aching

dh

 

Great poster, David.

 

Relating the diagram to the system map, 'Poppyland', presumably heart of the lucrative Norfolk heroin industry, lies to the north of the mainline between Melton Constable and North Walsham.  The area is bounded by the Cromer branch, travelling north from Melton and round to Cromer.  The diagram then shows the 'box' completed by what was, in fact, the Norfolk & Suffolk Railway (GE & MGN joint) from Cromer to  North Walsham.  

 

The line that cuts the corner, the GE's Cromer line via North Walsham, is not, of course, shown. 

[TheQ]

The best map I can find within period (1904) is this early use of a bar diagram by the M&GN

 

M&GN map.jpg

but it doesn't deign to include the WNR (but then neither does it recognise the GER)

 

Is the Management aware of touristy 'Poppyland' just to the east of Castle Aching

dh

Between the blobs marking Stalham station and Potter Heigham station , is another blob which marks Catfield station. Tonight, well in 2 hours, I shall drive down that railway line which is now the A149 to to what was Catfield station at that point I will be about 200 yards from my MRC.

[mullie]

Great poster, David.

 

Relating the diagram to the system map, 'Poppyland', presumably heart of the lucrative Norfolk heroin industry, lies to the north of the mainline between Melton Constable and North Walsham.  The area is bounded by the Cromer branch, travelling north from Melton and round to Cromer.  The diagram then shows the 'box' completed by what was, in fact, the Norfolk & Suffolk Railway (GE & MGN joint) from Cromer to  North Walsham.  

 

The line that cuts the corner, the GE's Cromer line via North Walsham, is not, of course, shown. 

Map obviously drawn by a Londoner who had spent time in 'unstanton!

[St Enodoc]

The best map I can find within period (1904) is this early use of a bar diagram by the M&GN

M&GN map.jpg

but it doesn't deign to include the WNR (but then neither does it recognise the GER)

 

Is the Management aware of touristy 'Poppyland' just to the east of Castle Aching

dh

Never mind the map - what a strange-looking yacht...

[Londontram]

Never mind the map - what a strange-looking yacht...

Yes but don't forget it is Norfolk.......

[Londontram]

Between the blobs marking Stalham station and Potter Heigham station , is another blob which marks Catfield station. Tonight, well in 2 hours, I shall drive down that railway line which is now the A149 to to what was Catfield station at that point I will be about 200 yards from my MRC.

Q you should have said we would have put the kettle on

[Nearholmer]

Knowing nothing about naval architecture, it was the eerie green glow that concerned me. Martians altering their itinerary? Weybourne, rather than Woking?

[St Enodoc]

Knowing nothing about naval architecture, it was the eerie green glow that concerned me. Martians altering their itinerary? Weybourne, rather than Woking?

if they were using Google maps, quite possibly.

 

H G Wells

[Hroth]

Knowing nothing about naval architecture, it was the eerie green glow that concerned me. Martians altering their itinerary? Weybourne, rather than Woking?

It looks like a converted Wherry, rather than the more usual miniscule Broads Yacht.

 

Perhaps we should speculate about what its last commercial cargo had been. Or perhaps it was the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909 that was hushed up.  Or it might just be Martians, though HG Wells characterised them as having reddish glows rather than green.  And they hooted a lot too.  Venusians, perhaps?

[St Enodoc]

It looks like a converted Wherry, rather than the more usual miniscule Broads Yacht.

 

Perhaps we should speculate about what its last commercial cargo had been. Or perhaps it was the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909 that was hushed up.  Or it might just be Martians, though HG Wells characterised them as having reddish glows rather than green.  And they hooted a lot too.  Venusians, perhaps?

Unless it's a trick of perspective the boom looks very short, which would make steering rather interesting.

[Hroth]

Unless it's a trick of perspective the boom looks very short, which would make steering rather interesting.

Thats the Gaff (hauls up to the top of the mast, which is the tall stick thing), wherries are loose-footed and don't have a boom.  Even so, the gaff is too small AND there's not enough sail bundled around it, though that might be a ploy by the hire company to stop the thing going too fast in the hands of the idiot hirers....

 

Norfolk Wherries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_wherry

[Edwardian]

Knowing nothing about naval architecture, it was the eerie green glow that concerned me. Martians altering their itinerary? Weybourne, rather than Woking?

 

It looks like a converted Wherry, rather than the more usual miniscule Broads Yacht.

 

Perhaps we should speculate about what its last commercial cargo had been. Or perhaps it was the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909 that was hushed up.  Or it might just be Martians, though HG Wells characterised them as having reddish glows rather than green.  And they hooted a lot too.  Venusians, perhaps?

 

 

I am rather a fan of invasion literature, and I can confirm that it would be a red glow had the Martians taken over the Norfolk , due to their ubiquitous red weed.  What with poppyland and red weed, I expect everyone would have been too stoned to steer a boat.

 

No, what we have here is something altogether different.  It was long assumed that the Broads was a natural landscape, though it is now understood that they are the flooded former peat workings.

 

What is less well known is that the Broads also contain the World's only Kryptonite deposits, thought to have been the result of a pre-historic meteor from Krypton.  This is why, of course, Superman and other super heroes following in his tradition only occur in the United States of America, and, why, thus, our idea of a comic is the Beano. A more down to Earth tradition, though perhaps less useful if, decades later, you want to start lucrative movie franchises.

 

I may have mentioned this before, but I did once concoct a sort of Riddle of the Sands/Thirty Nine Steps parody about the Beastly Hun trying to start WW1 early, which involved an invasion on the Wash, but clearly that was unambitious compared with the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909!  Brilliant!

[St Enodoc]

Thats the Gaff (hauls up to the top of the mast, which is the tall stick thing), wherries are loose-footed and don't have a boom.  Even so, the gaff is too small AND there's not enough sail bundled around it, though that might be a ploy by the hire company to stop the thing going too fast in the hands of the idiot hirers....

 

Norfolk Wherries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_wherry

Very interesting - I hadn't realised that. I had a look at the picture of the Sir Garnet on page 257 of Coot Club and I can see it now. Thanks.

[Londontram]

What is less well known is that the Broads also contain the World's only Kryptonite deposits, thought to have been the result of a pre-historic meteor from Krypton.  This is why, of course, Superman and other super heroes following in his tradition only occur in the United States of America, and, why, thus, our idea of a comic is the Beano. A more down to Earth tradition, though perhaps less useful if, decades later, you want to start lucrative movie franchises.

 

I may have mentioned this before, but I did once concoct a sort of Riddle of the Sands/Thirty Nine Steps parody about the Beastly Hun trying to start WW1 early, which involved an invasion on the Wash, but clearly that was unambitious compared with the Wroxham Zombie Apocalypse of 1909!  Brilliant!

Oh come on don't tell me you didn't know about the preserved site of the meteorite shower at Grimes graves and all those stories of them being prehistoric flint mines when in truth even today at the bottom of each pit is a small lump of Kriptonite. Its all being preserved as a future alternative energy source one small lump of that in a Y14 fire box and it would run for ten years without needing refueling.

 

Grimes graves Thetford

[Londontram]

Although much hushed up at the time for the sake of Anglo German relations there is a grain of truth in your story of the invasion of north Norfolk when in 1910 the Kaiser sent a raiding party to the North Norfolk town of Stanton as a prelude to an invasion.

 

Luckily they were spotted coming ashore by old Colonel Blinkingsop the old Indian army officer from the North west frontier who had retired to the town. He rushed down to the railway station in his bath chair and got them to telegraph all the Norfolk militia with the simple message

 

"Come quick - Hun - Stanton" 

 

Ever since that day thinking that even though it had been hushed up the Colonel should get some recognition the town adapted that telegraph message as the town new name to celebrate old Blinkingsops quick action and so the name Hunstanton has become part of Norfolk's History