Woolwich Dockyard (working title)

[Kelly]

The one at Barnehurst was one of the original 1925 rotary convertor substations but was relegated to just a Track Paralleling hut (4 DC circuit breakers only - no rectifier equipment) under the Change of Frequency scheme in the early 1954. Alternative "bungalow" substations were built at Slade Green and Bexleyheath to compensate. It will now (probably) be a substation again (albeit with new modular building) under the "High Power" Networker / Electrostar 10-12 car scheme (I am a bit out-of-date on Kent Electrification these days since heading west............)

 

As for Charlton substation - it was one of the Cathedral type subs that originally had a rail connection through the large roller shutter door. The inset rails can still be seen in the sub floor and there was about 30' of track still existent outside back in the early 90's.

 

Was working at the sub one day and happened to notice one of the original green totem signs for Charlton station lying on the ground between the original station trestle platform and the sub compound boundary fence (it must have been there for 20+ years at the time), needless to say a bit of judicious fishing with some wire and it went to a better home........................

 

The Angerstein branch was electrified on the SR's 750v dc overhead system (from the overbridge down to the wharf reception lines) so you have the perfect excuse for a Class 71 .................

 

Thanks for the information.

 

The Barnehurst is one I recall seeing often. So a model of it may appear at some point, as well as Charlton one and swap them around at times perhaps (the plan is the layout could represent the Kidbrooke area with a bit of alteration of scenery/buildings (which would be removable), so it'd be feasible to build models of both.

 

A 71 would be nice, but it'll be bofore my initial era to start with. I'll probably wait and see what the Hornby/DJH ones end up looking like and seeing if I can afford them nearer the time.

[Kelly]

So with some assistance from the Templot club forum, a few tweaks have occured to the plan. Still needs more work.

 

 

I've overlaid the 3ftx2ft boards so I can see how they'll line up. The 2ftx2ft board for the level crossing is so it can be taken out or replaced with a gated one easier at a later stage. I'm still considering dropping the level of one board to recreate this:

 

 

Maybe a second 2ftx2ft board future down. WIll have to be given some thought I guess. Its a nice feature I'd like to incorporate, but Im wary of compressing too much and trying to cram too much in.

 

woolwich_dockyardch_2016_06_01_2226_56.box

Edited June 1, 2016 by Kelly

[Kelly]

I've been trying to think of a suitable name for the layout and have been hitting a bit of a wall.

 

I could just go with Woolwich Dockyard, though none of the station or the dock area are modelled, but are suggested to be off scene.

 

I could call it after one or other of the nearby roads too.

 

So a few examples:

 

• Victoria Way (this is the name of the road that goes over the bridge at the crossover end at charlton Junction)
• Lord Warwick St ( this is a road parallel to the woolwich dockyard area)
• Woodland Terrance (a road I used to live on in the area)
• Charlton Lane (the name one of the crossings)
• Sand Street (the name of a former crossing)

The problem with the above is they all put it in the Woolwich Dockyard/Charlton area for the layout name, which isn't a problem as such, but if I want to make use of the genericness of the plan to suggest areas like Kidbrooke, etc then it'd feel wrong.

 

Thoughts? suggestions?

[Kelly]

Just a quick update to note that I've made changes to the first post to tidy it up and make it more of an index for the thread. I'll try to keep that updated as work continues.

[Southernman46]

I've been trying to think of a suitable name for the layout and have been hitting a bit of a wall.

 

I could just go with Woolwich Dockyard, though none of the station or the dock area are modelled, but are suggested to be off scene.

 

I could call it after one or other of the nearby roads too.

 

So a few examples:

 

• Victoria Way (this is the name of the road that goes over the bridge at the crossover end at charlton Junction)
• Lord Warwick St ( this is a road parallel to the woolwich dockyard area)
• Woodland Terrance (a road I used to live on in the area)
• Charlton Lane (the name one of the crossings)
• Sand Street (the name of a former crossing)

The problem with the above is they all put it in the Woolwich Dockyard/Charlton area for the layout name, which isn't a problem as such, but if I want to make use of the genericness of the plan to suggest areas like Kidbrooke, etc then it'd feel wrong.

 

Thoughts? suggestions?

Artillery Road ??

[Kelly]

Artillery Road ??

 

Could work, but a bit focused on the Woolwich area to be a 'universal' type name for a layout that could feature other areas.

[Guest]

I very nearly used Thames Road for my layout. It was about as generic as I could think of and could have been sited anywhere from the City eastwards, north or south of the river. Good luck with choosing a name, it can sometimes be quite difficult. It needs to work geographically, you have to "like" it, and it also has to look good on signage. The last point may seem a strange one, but some names just don't seem to look right, be it on a station nameboard or a factory wall.

[Kelly]

I very nearly used Thames Road for my layout. It was about as generic as I could think of and could have been sited anywhere from the City eastwards, north or south of the river. Good luck with choosing a name, it can sometimes be quite difficult. It needs to work geographically, you have to "like" it, and it also has to look good on signage. The last point may seem a strange one, but some names just don't seem to look right, be it on a station nameboard or a factory wall.

 

That could well work. Will look at Google Maps again and see if that comes up with something as well as business names etc.

 

Unlikely to be many nameboards on the layout I suspect

[Budgie]

Does that footpath under the railway have a name? You could use that if it is not too specific.

 

You could use Eastcombe (there is Eastcombe Avenue and the Eastcombe estate not far from the junction.)

 

Or, nearer Woolwich Dockyard, what about Maryon? Or if you want a neutral name, how about Park Terrace?

[mightbe]

]The last point may seem a strange one, but some names just don't seem to look right, be it on a station nameboard or a factory wall.

 

And here we have the reason why the LBSCR chose Epsom Downs over... Nork.

 

Quentin

[unravelled]

If the crosing is going to be on the key module, why not include that in the name. To link up with the Kidbrooke possibility, how about Brook Lane Crossing? You could omit or replace lane. Other generic names  could include  Factory, Ferry, Gas Works, followed by Lane, Road  etc.

 

On the baseboard side, why does modular have to mean rectangular? Rectangular is possibly cheaper in the first place but not necessarily best.  I would be templed to make up some cardbord mockups .of layout modules with their transport  covers to see what would fit in your car. Non rectangular might pack in better, think sloping ends fitting under the back window (your vehicle may vary).

 

Hth

 

Dave

[Kelly]

Does that footpath under the railway have a name? You could use that if it is not too specific.

 

You could use Eastcombe (there is Eastcombe Avenue and the Eastcombe estate not far from the junction.)

 

Or, nearer Woolwich Dockyard, what about Maryon? Or if you want a neutral name, how about Park Terrace?

 

Those could work. Will have a discussion at some point with Natalie and see what she thinks of various suggestions.

 

And here we have the reason why the LBSCR chose Epsom Downs over... Nork.

 

Quentin

 

A very good reason too. Can just imagine the station announcement making a slight slip of the tongue 'The next train for Norks...'

 

If the crosing is going to be on the key module, why not include that in the name. To link up with the Kidbrooke possibility, how about Brook Lane Crossing? You could omit or replace lane. Other generic names  could include  Factory, Ferry, Gas Works, followed by Lane, Road  etc.

 

On the baseboard side, why does modular have to mean rectangular? Rectangular is possibly cheaper in the first place but not necessarily best.  I would be templed to make up some cardbord mockups .of layout modules with their transport  covers to see what would fit in your car. Non rectangular might pack in better, think sloping ends fitting under the back window (your vehicle may vary).

 

Hth

 

Dave

 

The crossing is going to be on its own module, so it can be swapped out for a module without a crossing or with a different layout of crossing etc.

 

Factory, Ferry and Gas Works wouldn't really work for the size of the layout, perhaps if a module on its own were to be exhibited then that could be a feasible name (perhaps each module having a name?).

 

Rectangular has the advantage of being easier and quicker to source (I'm sourcing them from Tim Horn), non-rectangular/square boards would likely increase costs/complications/delays in building. However I am thinking of having curved end boards to bring the traversers at a 90 degree angle to the layout, but that'll be a later addition I think.

 

I have a Mondeo estate, so fitting modules in isn't such a big concern in some respects (the 3ftx2ft board I got yesterday is swallowed by the boot). Though I do have to factor in that my mobility scooter takes up perhaps 1/3rd of the boot space, though as it breaks down it can be split in terms of placement. I suspect with the back seats down 3x 3ftx2ft boards should fit in pretty easily, fitting in traversers and stock boxes might be more difficult, but we'll see when I come to that as at this stage it is more about getting it built at home really. But withough the scooter theres more than enough room for any layout boards I might desire I suspect.

[bbishop]

Living locally, I got out my AtoZ.  As a locality, it is remarkably lacking in memorial names.  The railway tunnel is under Maryon Park and that is maybe the most common name between Charlton and Woolwich Dockyard stations.  There is always the Antigallican pub in Charlton Church Lane; if Camberwell can have the Elephant & Castle .....

 

Bill

[Blue]

Does that footpath under the railway have a name? You could use that if it is not too specific.You could use Eastcombe (there is Eastcombe Avenue and the Eastcombe estate not far from the junction.)Or, nearer Woolwich Dockyard, what about Maryon? Or if you want a neutral name, how about Park Terrace?

The footpath is Ransom Walk.

[Kelly]

So yesterday was DEMU Showcase again. A great day was had. I came away with one of these:

 

 

A 3'x2' board from Tim Horn (as well as a Stormtrooper wall plaque as a gift for Richard my other half).

 

Photos from yesterday are to be found here:

 

 

So a physical start to the layout has begun. I plan to pick up 2 or 3 more boards in September from Tim at Scaleforum, then it'll be a matter of concentrating on track building really.

 

Talking of track, yesterday Natalie decided she'd rethought the left side of the plan to do away with the single slip which I'd spent a fair bit of time getting right wrong in Templot (and corrected by very helpful people on Templot Club).

 

So this is what I had planned before Natalie's suggested changes:

 

 

 

And Natalie's changes:

 

 

As can be seen, Natalie's changes add about 2ft extra to the length of the layout. I'm unsure which to go with. Natalie's changes do have the advantage of not needing the expense or complication of building a single slip, but the extra points and extra length are a downside. Thoughts?

 

 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Kelly

[Kelly]

Living locally, I got out my AtoZ.  As a locality, it is remarkably lacking in memorial names.  The railway tunnel is under Maryon Park and that is maybe the most common name between Charlton and Woolwich Dockyard stations.  There is always the Antigallican pub in Charlton Church Lane; if Camberwell can have the Elephant & Castle .....

 

Bill

 

I did consider Maryon Park as a name, but something about it didn't fit right for some reason.

 

The footpath is Ransom Walk.

 

Thanks for that. I'm still uncertain if I'll manage to fit the underpath in to the plan without a lot of rejigging as it'd have to be in a different spot to where the crossing is going to be and far enough away to be believable, etc.

[Kelly]

Not much to update with at present. I've gotten the first board painted however (in plain white emulsion) to protect it from any damp in my flat (my flat being an old 60s/70s council flat is prone to condensation/damp) as best I can. Next stage will probably to give it a spray of a green colour I probably.

 

I've been playing about in Templot trying to see how curved boards to add a 90o at one or both ends might work out. Being P4 this means said boards will likely be rather long. It'd be impractical though to have a curve board attaching to the end of the crossover unless I hide the second set of tracks joining back to to the others under scenery perhaps. It'll take some thought i think, but it would allow at least a traverser to be placed at a 90o angle and easier to set up in my flat. Though it could well mean losing the hidden sidings, but they might well be able to just not be connected with the curved boards attached, and used to have stock ready, though how that'd work i'm not sure, it would be quite complicated for those to join the curved boards though. Again a bit of thought and playing around in Templot needed I think. In the next couple of weeks I'm going to make a start on the first P4 point, though it likely won't be used on the layout as I've used mostly B7/1:7 points (kit is a B6), but it will be fine for another smaller plan I have, which I might work towards getting set up sooner than this one in some respects as a test bed.

[Kelly]

Been a while since the last update. Not a great deal to report to some extent.

 

I've bought the MERG CBUS and MERG DCC kits to have the basis for a CBUS/DCC system, this will be used on a test plank I think. I've worked out roughly what modules will be needed now at least, so can start getting the kits and other bits together slowly now.

 

The plan is evolving a bit, with the plan change Natalie suggested rejected (though it is considered that off scene there is a loop, which might later feature on a possible extension).

 

I've been looking at changing the plan to more of an L shape to save length, but I've yet to get it looking how I want or how I am happy with.

 

The first thought was a 90 degree bend. But it doesn't look right.

 

 

Next a gentler curve was tried.

 

The crossover isn't right, nor is it on the left where it joins to the slip.

 

Some more tinkering and thought when I'm not sleep deprived is in order.

 

The only issues with this arrangement are the loss of the hidden sidings and consequently a lot of unused space on the left hand side, It also makes it harder to operate without the curved board.

 

For the modular nature to work with this arrangement a special board would be needed, which would allow the crossover to join to the single slip in a straight fashion, probably needing a small board to link them to account for the differences in track locations.

 

The reasons for wanting to add the curve is to reduce the length a bit, but keep the length overall. Another option is to have curved end boards that link to the traversers so it isn't 4' traverser + 11' scenic + 4' traverser in one long length, though the need to keep the radius gentle enough for stock would add almost 4' each end anyway most probably. Back to the drawing board to some extent maybe.

 

Thoughts appreciated.

[Guest]

I can be quite lazy and would be sorely tempted to stick with the straight version. That said, the gentle curve does look good but as you say, throws up other issues. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[meld]

Thanks for the information.

 

The Barnehurst is one I recall seeing often. So a model of it may appear at some point, as well as Charlton one and swap them around at times perhaps (the plan is the layout could represent the Kidbrooke area with a bit of alteration of scenery/buildings (which would be removable), so it'd be feasible to build models of both.

 

A 71 would be nice, but it'll be bofore my initial era to start with. I'll probably wait and see what the Hornby/DJH ones end up looking like and seeing if I can afford them nearer the time.

The Barnehurst Sub-station has been demolished and replace with a new set of silver buildings and transformers from Siemmens.

 

It was a shame as it was probably the easiest to do field research on, being next to the up platform.

 

HTH

 

MC

[Kelly]

I've not put much more thought to the layout plans as have been busy with the soldering iron.

 

After a bit of trouble shooting, have gotten the first MERG kit finished. It's just the CANUSB4 module, so nothing particularly special, but the first of a few hopefully. Next are the CANACC8 and CANCMD/CANCAB (more complicated with SMD parts). Then I'll have a few basic units for control (and DCC) available for less than £100.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Recently made a happy discovery of an album of prints that I hadn't scanned (no idea about the negs). In March 1984, I cycled from Dartford to Charlton along the N Kent line. 

The slightly misty day seemed to add to the somewhat run-down aspect of the area. That's my excuse for the relatively poor photos. Loco and unit details are in the file names after the date.

So... Dartford, near the tunnel, ferry wagons for Dover:

 

Dartford station:

 

Dartford, the junction for the Sidcup loop, the 73 with MCVs

 

Slade Green:

 

Belvedere:

 

Abbey Wood:

 

Plumstead (which seemed to act as an overflow for stuff being worked on at Slade Green. Here, there is half of unit 5402 along with a tarpaulined EPB coach in the background:

enlarged as best I can:

 

Woolwich area:

 

Charlton Lane Crossing:

 

Charlton and the junction for Angerstein Wharf:

 

Passenger headcodes:

62 Charing Cross-Lewisham-Woolwich-Gillingham

80 Charing Cross-Greenwich-Dartford

81 Cannon Street-Greenwich-Dartford

The 58 on the MLV was something weird like Victoria-Dartford-Dover, but was regularly used for some kind of parcels working with a single MLV. I've other photos of the same working with the same headcode through Medway.

Edited July 12, 2016 by eastwestdivide

[Kelly]

Thanks for posting those. Slightly before the date of what I'm working on initially, but still of interest.

[Kelly]

Haven't forgotten about this project, it has just fallen on the back burner a bit as I've decided to build a smaller layout first to get some things practiced before starting on the track for this one.

 

At scaleforum I'll be picking up a couple more boards for it though however.

[Kelly]

At scaleforum I picked up 4 more 3x2 boards.

 

 

Appologies for poor photo, they've been stored out of the way on top of the wardrobe and it is too late at this hour to move them. The bottom one has been painted with white matt emulsion to protect it, the others will get this in due course hopefully.

 

Have not decided still about the curved boards, thinking will stick with traverser each end for now, with curved boards for a later date and a big fiddle yard as a round-round type layout for (possible) exhibition.