Wartime Sussex 1943(ish)

[GreenGiraffe22]

Hello all, I'm Matt, I just joined this forum today as it looked like an excellent place to gain ideas, inspiration and knowledge!

I've been collecting model trains since I was a baby (I'm 24 now) although until the past year I'd always collected all sorts - nothing specific - just whatever I could find cheap second hand and I never really bothered much with scenery. Only in the past year or so have I decided to sell off most of my collection of odds and ends (aside from things of sentimental value) and do a proper theme.

Being both Brighton born and bred and a train enthusiast I've always been interested in the history of railways local to me, I used to volunteer at the Bluebell Railway when I was 12-14 ish and had my First cab ride in their E4, I've also always been really interested in WW2 so I've combined both interests and tried to create a representation of Sussex during World War Two. It has been a difficult era to research, I so far haven't been able to find an awful lot of information or photos, only that passengers services decreased while goods increased.. and everything was very dirty.

My current layout is just a small ish circuit layout in the corner of a room at my parents house, I am currently in the process of slowly saving for a mortgage so until I have my own place to do something bigger and better, I'm using this layout to practise on. It's not supposed to be  anywhere overly specific, just general East Sussex, probably somewhere between Brighton & Eastbourne. 

I tell you, this layout has been a massive learning curve for what not to do in the future, for example, avoid radius 1 curves like the plague and most definitely invest in some new points because most of mine are very temperamental and probably as old as I am.

Anyway here are some photos I took today, feed back and or constructive criticism is very welcome! My partner deserves a lot of credit for the scenery including the farm field & crashed Messerschmitt.  

This is a general view of the whole thing

 

 

I found these wagons on ebay, I assume they are scratch built? 



A wounded soldier being carried to a waiting ambulance 



The no. 12 in Waritme livery



one end of my Station, in one platform Hornby's 2Bil and the other Hornby's Earlswood Terrier re-painted into the Terrier that went on to become Brighton Works, I don't know if the real one ever carried sunshine livery but hey ho, also, can someone tell me, am I right in putting the numbers on the tanks or should they be on the cab? They didn't look like they'd fit on the cab... it is still a work in progress anyway, I'd like less rust and more soot on the weathering. Also an ambulance carriage next to it that I found on ebay.



I'm quite proud of this Spitfire load I made, it is an Airfix model I had lying around and an old necklace for chains. 



The other end of the station, my weathered Q1 on military goods. 



Weathered Bachmann C Class with Brighton wagons from Simply Southern 



Various Southern wagons in the yard



The coal loading yard, I actually weathered the Hornby Schools Class today!



Another view of the Coal yard, the turntable in the background is left over from the previous layout, I'm not really using it at the moment, in any case it isn't electrified at the moment either and the siding coming off it are barely big enough for my terrier let alone anything else, can see my rather rusty looking E2 on one of them.



My weathered Hornby M7, for a £117 model it has a very noisy and weak motor, quite disappointing but it does the job on 2-carriage services.

 

My E4 with with coal wagons and a rake of southern coaches in a siding, they'll all be weathered eventually. I figured my E4 would probably be more accurate if it was numbered 2473, thinking of getting it sent off to be professionally re-numbered, black engines are easy but I'd rather not wreck that one, I'd like to keep it pristine. I'm thinking of getting an early BR one to convert to Sunshine livery, will definitely be buying Bachmann's new one no. 2517.



The crashed Me. 109, I think this is my favourite piece of scenery on the layout!



The field in the other corner.



And finally, another bit of scenery that suggests there is a war on.

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by GreenGiraffe22

[380John]

Top marks mate,

Particularly like the Messerschmitt and the spitfire load. A layout like yours is as you say a great place to start. I'm 29 and have done the same learning curve as yourself. Keep enjoying it!

 

John

[South Central]

Hi there and welcome to RMweb!

 

A lot of love for this layout already, especially the number 12 bus which still runs past my lane to this day (although nowadays in a slightly more garish shade of green!)

 

One thing that springs to mind is another layout which has appeared in the Mags in years previous - Rowlands Castle - based on the real-life Hampshire village during WW2, so lots of war time paraphernalia as per your layout. Have a google for it as I think you'd find it really inspirational

 

Have you thought about some dummy third rail? That really would be a Brighton/Eastbourne area scene setter, and your 2BIL would appreciate it I'm sure

 

Following with interest, thanks for sharing! Phil

[GreenGiraffe22]

Thank you! Yeah my dad was always the one that did the building and the electrifying and all that, I just did the playing, it is about time I learnt haha.


Yes I have checked out Rowland's Castle and drooled with envy, that is pretty much what my modelling goals are! 

And I have considered a third rail, definitely one for the future layout ! Which I'm planning as being more of a straight line with a fiddlers yard each end, and probably a shunting yard somewhere. I have many ideas!

Edited April 22, 2016 by GreenGiraffe22

[380John]

Thank you! Yeah my dad was always the one that did the building and the electrifying and all that, I just did the playing, it is about time I learnt haha.

Well this is the place to assist you in your learning. Any questions just sing out chances are you wont be the first person with that query!

All the best,

 

John

[Trains&armour]

Any wartime layout gets my vote! There should be more... It's a pity there is so little information about the railways in WWII and there certainly is a distinct lack of pictures because of  wartime censorship. But to me, WWII is Britain's railways finest hour. They played a very important part in the Allied buildup and it's final victory.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I don't know much about how wounded troops were transported about, but today I put something together that is supposed to represent a train that might have met wounded soliders upon arrival back this side of the channel. I don't know how accurate the ambulance carriage is but I found it on ebay ages ago that someone had repainted and thought it looked good. I presume PLVs would have been useful for medical and / or military supplies, the 3rd class carriage is for the lesser-wounded soliders. 



 

 

 

[380John]

i like your consist there! If you like it then it's your railway and that's all that matters. I think it looks the part. If you want an accurate representation then research is always essential but if your happy with it without counting rivets (as many of us including myself are) then that's the main thing!

 

Have you thought about adding a backscene? It could really help bring your layout to life.

 

John

[GreenGiraffe22]

i like your consist there! If you like it then it's your railway and that's all that matters. I think it looks the part. If you want an accurate representation then research is always essential but if your happy with it without counting rivets (as many of us including myself are) then that's the main thing!

 

Have you thought about adding a backscene? It could really help bring your layout to life.

 

John

Thanks John, I am trying to make it as accurate as I can, but as you say, I'm certainly not counting rivets, as long as people could accurately guess the location and era based on what they can see, then I'm happy!

 

I've done a degree research but there seems to be so little detailed writings about the railways during the war, but I've gathered what info I can, what locos were introduced and when and what liveries are and aren't appropriate, I very nearly pre-ordered one of Model Rail Offer's USA tanks in SR Black before I found out we didn't actually start using them till after the war - shame, but saved myself £124.

 

I'm always learning new things, at first I thought all my engines had to be black, then I found out some never got repainted from olive, and then I had a schools class that was actually in a post-war livery but I soon replaced it with a black one I found haha. Details like that are the ones I'm most anal about. My E4, for example, should probably technically be no.2473 by this period in time, and it may yet become no. 2473 one day! 

 

The layout was originally set in the summer of 1940, but I really wanted a Q1 as it is such an iconic Southern war loco,  so I brought it forward a couple of years!

 

As for a back-drop, I would love to have one, but I think I shall wait itll I've got my own place, the sloping wall towards the back of my layout makes it a bit awkward too. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[380John]

Thanks John, I am trying to make it as accurate as I can, but as you say, I'm certainly not counting rivets, as long as people could accurately guess the location and era based on what they can see, then I'm happy!

 

I've done a degree research but there seems to be so little detailed writings about the railways during the war, but I've gathered what info I can, what locos were introduced and when and what liveries are and aren't appropriate, I very nearly pre-ordered one of Model Rail Offer's USA tanks in SR Black before I found out we didn't actually start using them till after the war - shame, but saved myself £124.

 

I'm always learning new things, at first I thought all my engines had to be black, then I found out some never got repainted from olive, and then I had a schools class that was actually in a post-war livery but I soon replaced it with a black one I found haha. Details like that are the ones I'm most anal about. My E4, for example, should probably technically be no.2473 by this period in time, and it may yet become no. 2473 one day!

 

The layout was originally set in the summer of 1940, but I really wanted a Q1 as it is such an iconic Southern war loco, so I brought it forward a couple of years!

 

As for a back-drop, I would love to have one, but I think I shall wait itll I've got my own place, the sloping wall towards the back of my layout makes it a bit awkward too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You've done a good job so far! Personally I like the research behind these things and that is one of the most enjoyable parts of the hobby in my eyes.

 

I agree, it is difficult to find info out for the war period. Have you thought about having ago at re spraying stock to suit your period? Hard working war weary locos and stock tell a story like no other. Model rail did a superb magazine and supplement last year which included work on an 8f for this period.

 

John

[GreenGiraffe22]

You've done a good job so far! Personally I like the research behind these things and that is one of the most enjoyable parts of the hobby in my eyes.

 

I agree, it is difficult to find info out for the war period. Have you thought about having ago at re spraying stock to suit your period? Hard working war weary locos and stock tell a story like no other. Model rail did a superb magazine and supplement last year which included work on an 8f for this period.

 

John

 

Thank you! Yes I too enjoy doing the research, research has frequently saved me from spending lots of money on unsuitable things too haha. I am slowly getting around to weathering up everything, it is easy enough, just gotta be in the mood for it. It certainly makes them look a lot less like toys and more like accurate scale replicas of a period in time. 

[GreenGiraffe22]

very pleased with my latest addition to the layout, a Hornby T9 I managed to swipe off ebay mint in box for a mere £65, it must have slipped under the radar because I haven't seen one go for less than £80 in a very long time, I knew I'd get a bargain if I waited patiently enough! I just need to weather it up and add couplings and head code discs. 

Incidentally, can anyone point me in the direction of a company that sells head code discs? I thought Bachmann might as their E4 comes with 5 but apparently not... ?



 

[Nearholmer]

Look no further than your nearest paper-punch, it contains thousands of head-code disks. And, if they are too thin, run a sheet of 10 thou plasticard through it.

 

I'm never sure if they are the right size, but they look near enough.

 

On liveries: there were a good number of locos in already in malachite green at the outbreak of war, including several Schools, as well as many still in olive, so I would suggest that you can have all three, if you choose carefully. And, see below for what the first MN looked like when it emerged from the paint shop, during the War.

 

K

Edited May 3, 2016 by Nearholmer

[GreenGiraffe22]

Look no further than your nearest paper-punch, it contains thousands of head-code disks. And, if they are too thin, run a sheet of 10 thou plasticard through it.

 

I'm never sure if they are the right size, but they look near enough.

 

On liveries: there were a good number of locos in already in malachite green at the outbreak of war, including several Schools, as well as many still in olive, so I would suggest that you can have all three, if you choose carefully. And, see below for what the first MN looked like when it emerged from the paint shop, during the War.

 

K

I hadn't thought of that, however I did manage to find some etched in brass that were only £2.50 for a pack of 16 so I'm going to try them out.

 

And that is good to know, I did read that the MNs were rolled out in Malachite but I get so confused reading articles about liveries, The previous Schools I had was Hornby's 'Stowe', well, I say had, I've still got it for now in a box, but that looks to be in a short lived experimental green that was ditched in favour of Malachite (unless it is a general green produced by Hornby before they became more livery-accurate?), and (if I want to be super anal about accuracy) I read that the real 'Stowe' was painted black in 1942 anyway haha.

 

In any case, I personally really like the black liveries anyway, I think they look really smart and they weather up really nicely without me feeling guilty about ruining beautiful, intricate pre-war liveries haha. 

[BlueLightning]

Very nice looking layout. I understand what you mean about research. My layout of Hailsham was at one point going to be set in the WW2 period before I decided on 50s-60s due to being able to get more info about what ran during that period. In fact it has been easier to research my pre-grouping layout that when I was tying to find ww2 era info!

 

Gary

[GreenGiraffe22]

Very nice looking layout. I understand what you mean about research. My layout of Hailsham was at one point going to be set in the WW2 period before I decided on 50s-60s due to being able to get more info about what ran during that period. In fact it has been easier to research my pre-grouping layout that when I was tying to find ww2 era info!

 

Gary

Thank you Gary, and I know, sometimes I wish I'd set my layout in the 20s/30s because it'd be a damn sight easier, having said that I would like to maybe have a small LBSC/SECR layout at some point, but that's for another day!

 

From what I can gather about WW2 it seems a case of almost anything goes... It seems like anything could end up anywhere for the war effort!

 

My Mallard & Flying Scotsman do make an appearance occasionally but that is just for fun ;]  

[BlueLightning]

I had always wanted an LBCSR based layout and kept putting it off due to my own perceived lack of modelling skills and am glad I have decided to go for it however my other models built up from 3 previous layouts do still make an appearance when nobody is looking.

 

I look forward to following the progress of your layout

 

Gary

[Nearholmer]

There are a few books around on the topic of the SR during wartime.

 

They published their own one called, IIRC, "War on the Line" c1946, and a couple of years ago Kevin Robertson (Noodle Books) did three, full of contemporary photos, as "Southern way" special editions.

 

K

Edited May 3, 2016 by Nearholmer

[GreenGiraffe22]

I've weathered up my T9 now, I've got some brass headcode discs from Roxy moldings, I just need to paint them white and stick them on.

There isn't much skill involved in my weathering, I just mixed up Humbrol weathering powders, mainly white and black with a bit of Oxide along the bottom, and just slap it on with a paint brush!

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by GreenGiraffe22

[GreenGiraffe22]

Just wanted to share some photos I took today after having a good change up of the traffic running on my layout. 

 

This goods train (minus the brake van) is made entirely of Dapol wagons, at least half of which are special commissions from Simply Southern http://www.simplysouthern.co.uk/

 

 

My M7 & E4

 

I think my Hornby platforms look really naff, even after painting them to make them look a little less plastic, and they don't really fit properly against my design either, especially on the curve, passengers will have to mind the MASSIVE gap haha, my partner wants to try carving some from polystyrene.

 

Also thinking about getting Bachmann's new C Class no. 1294, I think the 2 will look really good running together on heavy military goods trains, plus I love the locomotive, my favourite next to my E4. I want to go over the weathering on it, the clear varnish I had ran out as I was spraying it and it left it looking a bit blotted

 

 

My T9 in the coal loading bay, this area needs some work.



My Schools on goods

 

[BlueLightning]

Very nice shots. I am a fan of the Simply Southern wagons and have quite a few myself. It also helps that Ash is a really nice guy. I was chatting to him earlier he has a lot of new releases coming in the near future and a re-run of an old wagon coming out as well.

 

Gary

[Nearholmer]

Are those wagons based on real liveries, or are they the product of pure creativity?

 

K

[BlueLightning]

I hope GreenGiraffe22 wont mind me answering in his absence.

 

Simply Southern wagons are all fictional liveries but they are real companies.

 

Gary

Edited May 12, 2016 by BlueLightning

[GreenGiraffe22]

Yeah I had coffee with Ash recently, we've been discussing creating a Southern layout to take to exhibitions and new product ideas, I asked him the same question and he told me most of them are genuine liveries, a couple though, like the Polegate Treacle Mines (obviously) & Sussex Fisheries are the work of creative fiction.

[Nearholmer]

Thanks Chaps. I rather suspected that.

 

I'm enjoying this layout, although my own slice of the Southern deliberately dodges round the war; it exists just before, or just after, but never during.

 

You could create a 1/76 version of my father as a skinny teenager to put on yours, because in 1943 he travelled down by train, from where he grew up in Crowborough, to sign-up at the recruiting office, in Brighton.

 

Kevin