micklner Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 As per the title I have purchased Games Workshop Aerosol Varnish for a number of years. The last can was in new packaging , I didn't take much notice at the time, but on using I am having lots of problems with Bloom ( it dries white). I have only used on dry days , low humidity and can warmed before use. I have now just read a similar comment on a thread. It suggests that the formula has changed?. I always seal enamel paint with acrylic varnish before spraying with the Games varnish, as the Games version is aggressive and happily wrinkles enamel. Not wishing to risk ruining my models, what Satin varnish Aerosols do people use that gives a nice slight sheen to the finished model. I have used some in the past which are as shiny as Gloss varnish !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted November 12, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2016 I don't have an answer Micklner, but will be watching for responses with interest, as Games Workshop satin finish has been my varnish of choice for several years now. It will be a shame if they've re formulated it to the detriment of the finish. Thanks for the advance warning if this proves to be the case, though I'd prefer to read it isn't necessarily so. You have my sympathy if the can you've bought proves to be a one off bad one, but if anyone can confirm the re packaged product in general is still ok, you'd be able to get an exchange. Regards, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I've been using it for a while and haven't had any problems. My latest tin is the newer packaging, I think. Are you storing it indoors? I always keep spray varnishes inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobach47 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 can should be shaken for two minutes or more - i had trouble in high humidity - i keep some old bodies to try before i spray a model - remember to spray light coats don't go too heavy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Yes indoors ,shaken etc with that result. Be warned !!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Games Workshop has many detractors, so it is as well to be alive to that when assessing comments. Games Workshop is a very different set up from a conventional wargaming manufacturer; the business model is to control the rules, the game, the miniatures, the venues and the tournaments. The captive audience thus acquired is then subjected to some fairly aggressive pricing, compared with the cost of equivalent ranges. As a consequence, Games Workshop can be something of a marmite brand as hobbyists are either enslaved to it or very resentful of it. After about a minute and a half of inconsequential ranting (!), this guy does describe the disastrous results (crazing of the surface, killing his colours), though he does not show you damage (!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dBaGQjUd0w. Some, comments here: Note that the problems are frosting and gritty gunk: http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=81478.0 The former is ascribed to humidity by some. This chap found the Purity Seal remained tacky: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/335934/problems-games-workshop-purity-seal-still-tacky-af A couple of comments from this board - http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/hobby-forums/30863-purity-seal-really-bad.html - are: I wouldn't use Purity Seal if it was free and delivered to my front door in a limousine. It's overpriced, prone to frosting if sprayed wrong, and if it gets too heavy in the recesses it dries cloudy white. and OK when GW rebadgd Purity seal about 12-18 months ago, the new product they used was appaling, it went milkey al lthe time, this was branded as: PURITY SEAL - MATT VARNISH, however, due to complaints from customers and store staff (I know at least one GW store where they stopped selling it without approval from head office), they found a new product about 6 months ago. This is much better, it is branded as PURITY SEAL - SATIN VARNISH. It may not be the best on he market, but the bad press for purity seal was with the matt stuff not the satin stuff A number of people refer to Krylon as a not completely flat finish alternative and, of course, Testor Dullcote for matt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Interesting comments Edwardian , the version I am having problems is on the right in the picture.I bought this can with two others about 4 or 5 months ago. This can just states Varnish , the white can states Satin Varnish which never had any problems with. Sadly this can is nearly empty. Is the Yellow can the latest version , or have these been replaced with a newer version ? thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted November 12, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2016 Interesting that the White can, the same product I have used without problems to date, does specify Satin Varnish, whereas the yellow one simply says 'Model Varnish' without specifying a finish of Matt(e), Satin or Gloss. When I first bought a can the guy in the Games Workshop was obviously knowledgeable and confident in recommending it for a satin finish and I've been careful to request the exact same product whenever I've bought a new supply, though the most recent was about 3 years ago. This, together with others' replies would suggest the possibilities as being :- 1) the formula, as well as decoration of the can (IMHO) has changed for the worse. 2) The varnish in the yellow can isn't the Satin finish you thought you had bought. 3) The varnish in the yellow can is from a bad batch. A question which has come to mind in view of some comments posted and linked, :- Is it possible the propellant might affect the finish of the varnish or its adherent qualities ? From what I have seen and read of your modelling micklner, I'd reckon you to be very proficient in the use of paint and associated materials and wouldn't expect your preparation to be anything less than thorough. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to this problem. Regards, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted November 12, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2016 From what I have seen and read of your modelling micklner, I'd reckon you to be very proficient in the use of paint and associated materials and wouldn't expect your preparation to be anything less than thorough. Agreed. So it's clearly, as you say, bad batch or the whole range has gone down the pan. What about airbrushing Ronseal like the pros, Mick? Your airbrushing is clearly up to it. I can't remember what Ronseal Ian Rathbone recommends, but I know matting agent was involved. So that either means (a) Ronseal only do gloss, not satin, (b) Ian wanted to control the "satinity", or (c ) the satin is no good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Simple, I find Airbrushing a real pain especially in a shed in winter , the boss would never allow one to be used indoors !! Has anybody got a recommendation re other Aerosol makes for a subtle Satin finish please. I have already read Humbrol being slated elsewhere. I have found the following aerosols so far Windsor & Newton, Montana and Liquitex all do a Satin version . Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Interesting that the White can, the same product I have used without problems to date, does specify Satin Varnish, whereas the yellow one simply says 'Model Varnish' without specifying a finish of Matt(e), Satin or Gloss. When I first bought a can the guy in the Games Workshop was obviously knowledgeable and confident in recommending it for a satin finish and I've been careful to request the exact same product whenever I've bought a new supply, though the most recent was about 3 years ago. This, together with others' replies would suggest the possibilities as being :- 1) the formula, as well as decoration of the can (IMHO) has changed for the worse. 2) The varnish in the yellow can isn't the Satin finish you thought you had bought. 3) The varnish in the yellow can is from a bad batch. A question which has come to mind in view of some comments posted and linked, :- Is it possible the propellant might affect the finish of the varnish or its adherent qualities ? From what I have seen and read of your modelling micklner, I'd reckon you to be very proficient in the use of paint and associated materials and wouldn't expect your preparation to be anything less than thorough. I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to this problem. Regards, John Looking at the Games website the yellow can appears to still be the current product. It describes it as matt with a slight sheen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I have also had similar problems with Games Workshop varnishes. When it works, the finish is exactly what I want. When it doesn't, it fouls up hours of previous work. My preference at the moment is the range of varnishes from Microscale (and also MicroSol and MicroSet for fixing decals). Depending on the degree of satin that you want, you may find that the flat varnish will come up with a slight sheen. Worth experimenting. It is usually available in Antics. Best wishes Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Interesting comments Edwardian , the version I am having problems is on the right in the picture.I bought this can with two others about 4 or 5 months ago. This can just states Varnish , the white can states Satin Varnish which never had any problems with. Sadly this can is nearly empty. IMG_1381.jpg Is the Yellow can the latest version , or have these been replaced with a newer version ? thanks The white can is what I have traditionally used, with no issues. The yellow can I do not recognise, and, so, assume this is the replacement product that has caused so many problems. I cannot speak from personal experience, but am reluctant to risk it. Why manufacturers have to b8gger about with perfectly good products we know, love and buy, I'll never know. Whatever next, a Toblerone bar with half the triangles missing, I shouldn't wonder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I use Testors branded aerosols. Theyre cheap and work well. Never bloomed on me, though Ive only used matt and gloss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 I use Testors branded aerosols. Theyre cheap and work well. Never bloomed on me, though Ive only used matt and gloss. Sadly only ever seen the Dullcote (matt) version for sale in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Hmmmm, my tin of the yellow label purity seal has been fine. Very smooth satin finish when I require one - I use dullcote for a Matt finish. I'm not sure I'll risk another can though, thanks for pointing this out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Same here. I use Citadel Purity Seal and the latest type, with the modded label on the can, seems to bloom quite easily. I have tried different ways of spraying i.e. cold, warm, stored cold or warm, different paint types, and there seems to be no reason single for the blooming. I have found adding another coat seems to reduce it, but that's simply my test and I cant say whether or not that's the answer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted November 12, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2016 I use Tamiya Matt acrylic with good results but you don't get a lot in a tin. Dava Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Has anybody got a recommendation re other Aerosol makes for a subtle Satin finish please.Hi Mick Both Marabu and Vallejo do satin spray varnishes that have worked well for me (but use very, very light coats only). However, they both caused Fox lining transfers to crinkle and lift, so now I exclusively use Halfords Satin Laquer spray. This has been consistently excellent for everything that I've used it on for several years (I accidentally discovered that it even eliminates cyano bloom - I had to refix a handrail on one of my coaches and ended up with a nasty white cyano bloom around the joint. A very quick waft of the Halfords satin eliminated it completely and blended perfectly with the finish on the rest of the coach). The only problem is that it's not available in all stores - my local Halfords in Didcot doesn't stock it, so I have to make a special trip to the bright lights of Oxford to get hold of it. If you want to see the level of satin in the finish, check out my 16mm Welsh Highland coach thread in the Garden Railways section of the forum - semi-open car 2021 and NWNGR replica No24 are both finished in the Halfords satin. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted November 13, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2016 Here's a link to David's coaches. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116255-whr-stock-in-16mm/ Nice work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 Thanks will check my local Halfords. What is the type of paint you are using for the actual colour on your lovely Coaches please ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Thanks will check my local Halfords. What is the type of paint you are using for the actual colour on your lovely Coaches please ?Thanks Mick I'm using Halfords car paints for the bodywork (Rover Damask red and Ford Ivory) and Railmatch BR blue/grey roof aerosols for the roofs. I tried Halfords grey bumper paint for the roofs, but the shade was too light (now that the WHR and FR are back to coal firing, the carriage roofs get very sooty). It was also the only Halfords spray that I couldn't get on with - all the others consistently spray beautifully, but for some reason the bumper paint never seemed to spray and dry as smoothly as I needed. So it was back to the good old Railmatch that I used in my 7mm days. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I think it may have been my comment in response to Edwardian) which triggered this thread. I've been a longtime user of Purity seal and sworn by it, but since my last purchase - the yellow can above - the results have been poor to terminal and I've had to strip one model back to bare metal and start again. I shall look for the Halfords product when I'm next within their walls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share Posted November 14, 2016 Yes JW it was your post up to that point of reading your post, I just thought I was unlucky many thanks. I have just checked a can of Halfords Gloss Varnish/Lacquer used on car mishaps in the past. It states acrylic and safe on enamels. Hopefully the satin version will be the same formula when tracked down. On checking the Halfords site the Satin is not stocked at my nearest shop , so check before going to buy. Nearest stockist to me is the other side of the River Thames !. Meanwhile Games Workshop have email !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted November 29, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2016 Hi Micklner, did you get any response from Games Workshop and was there any worthwhile information you could share with us please? Regards, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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