Chubber Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Have hit a problem whilst building a NG white metal model...... Bought some Vallejo 74.601 grey surface primer [at great expense] to use with my air-brush [yes, Chubber has entered the 21st Century]. Cleaned the boiler assembly up, degreased and sprayed almost neat in moderate temperature, left untouched for 48 hours, and the bloo5y stuff peeled straight off at the first touch of 1000 grit paper. Bollix!!!! What have I done wrong? Professor Google comes up with similar winges from other users. Off to buy another can of Halfords grey U.C. today, after an hour scraping away with a sharpened cocktail stick. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 When sanding Vallejo primer you need to have a very light tough, if you can feel any drag at all, it will pull the lot off. No water based paint will be particularly tough. If you need to remove it quickly, rub it with a cocktail stick soaked in cellulose thinners, it's come right off, or if it;s not too old Airbrush cleaner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKenzie Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Hey, I have had a similar problem last night. Whilst starting a respray I thought I would just spray over the current logo, before realizing that it is 3D and the raised ‘frieghtliner’ could still be seen once the coat dried ….. doh I then looked to sand back the local area to remove the transfer only, but it left a horrible pealed edge which for the life of me I cannot get rid of and the more I touch it the further it peals into the model. I would even be happy to totally remove this coat and start again with a spray can, but now I don’t seem able to get the paint off the tricky detail areas and am left with just a peal line between the flat surfaces and the detail areas. Did you have any luck/any tips for getting the paint off the detailing so I can start again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 This is a common problem with Vallejo primer to the extent that I have stopped using it. There are suggestions that treating the primer with Klear after application makes it possible to sand it down. Recently I have been using Isopropal Alcohol to strip models of paint. Seems to work on any paint including Halford's primers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted March 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2017 This is a common problem with Vallejo primer to the extent that I have stopped using it. There are suggestions that treating the primer with Klear after application makes it possible to sand it down. Recently I have been using Isopropal Alcohol to strip models of paint. Seems to work on any paint including Halford's primers. Hi Do you know what its like stripping paint from Resin? I tried using Phoenix Precision Superstrip but it tends to make the Resin soft and deforms it. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Sorry, not tried resin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Must admit I use Vallejo primer all the time. I can't comment too much on its use on white metal as it's a material I don't use often enough, however i do use quite a bit of photo etched brass for which I find it works well. What I would say is that it pays to work lightly with it. If you are used to brush painting on primer coats I would advise moving into a different mind set. I guess using acrylics and the wariness of finding yourself with a clogged airbrush because of dried paint, can make you want to get the job done quickly and in fairness a couple of passes of Valejjo primer in a relatively short time can do it. But I find it's generally a good idea to do one light pass first. In David Mckenzie's post about problems with his freight liner logo. This would have shown up pretty quickly when the first pass dried and allowed him to deal with the problem earlier and easier Valejo design their primer to give the best results on spraying models with fine detail. The particle size of the pigment is much finer than say in a rattle can of Halfords primer. This means the Valejo primer is less likely to flood out those finer details in your model than in the way that say the Halfords primer would. However with an advantage comes a disadvantage and Valejo's is it's susceptibility to being abraded when dry. Those finer pigments don't quite create as hard a surface as our Halfords primer, but then again Halfords primer isn't designed to try and maintain as fine surface detail as Valejo. What I have found is that Valejo paints can be cleaned/removed with a whole lot of patience using cleaners that are ammonia based. Ironically Humbrols Decalfix will soften Valejo acrylics over time if kept wet with Decalfix. Going back to the advantage thing though. My advice is that if you are looking at priming large area's or area's that you are fairly certain you are going to need to rework or are possibly concerned about the base material. Then Halfords aerosol primers have proved to be a good and reliable paint. However if you are looking for a good quality finish and you are confident your surfaces are ready to go. Then the Valejo primer is ideal for providing a good base coat and importantly protecting any fine detail. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I seem to recall a review of this product from a year ago where the reviewer comented that it can take upto a week to cure fully. If your looking for an airbrush ready grey primer you could try AK Interactives grey mirco filler (AK758) Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Forgot to mention, thin only with Vallejo Airbrush thinner - don't use water or any other money saving concoction, they just don't work and will cause the paint to peel off very easily. Here is something I've been working on today - apart from the base coat which is Phoenix Grey etching primer, everything has been achieved with various coloured Vallejo Surface primers, all worked within minutes of spraying and no hint of peeling or flaking anywhere, in fact it took quite a lot of effort to achieve the scratches and scuffs because it's so resistant! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto21 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Interesting thread. I bought a bottle of the grey primer a couple of years ago when it first came out because I'd seen good reviews. I've never been able to get anywhere near a good result with it either. Just doesn't sand well at all. It's the only primer I've used that I've experienced this with! Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Try Badger Stynlrez as an acrylic primer straight out of the bottle. You can sand it as soon as it's dry (about 20 minutes). There are plenty of good reviews on youtube and you can get it within 24/48 hours off ebay. I am a confirmed Vallejo fan, but the primer is the only product I have had trouble with. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Try Badger Stynlrez as an acrylic primer straight out of the bottle. You can sand it as soon as it's dry (about 20 minutes). There are plenty of good reviews on youtube and you can get it within 24/48 hours off ebay. I am a confirmed Vallejo fan, but the primer is the only product I have had trouble with. Mike Thank you for this, Mike, is this the stuff? https://www.emodels.co.uk/ultimate-120ml-grey-primer-badger-stynylrez-027.html Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Different packaging I think. I get mine from scalemodelshop in Halifax 182040191471. Review here Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian@stenochs Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Interesting thread. I bought a bottle of the grey primer a couple of years ago when it first came out because I'd seen good reviews. I've never been able to get anywhere near a good result with it either. Just doesn't sand well at all. It's the only primer I've used that I've experienced this with! Matt The Precision instructions say NOT to rub down the primer but to spray a thin covering coat of paint on top and rub that down. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Different packaging I think. I get mine from scalemodelshop in Halifax 182040191471. Review here Mike Thank you again, Mike, very convincing review [what a good presenter, too?] Deffo on the shopping list. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryten65 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 The Badger Stynylrez is also sold here https://www.umpretail.com/blogs/news/93194566-ultimate-primer-is-here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Different packaging I think. I get mine from scalemodelshop in Halifax 182040191471. Review here Mike Thanks for the heads up Mike! Like you I'm a confirmed Valejo fan, but watching the review it would certainly be worth a punt giving the Badger primer a try. As I said in one of my posts, I find the Valejo primer is excellent when you know your model surface is finished, ready to go and you are not going to have to do any re-work. So if this stuff covers as good as it seems and isn't as temperamental when it comes to re-working then it has to be an ideal product. Cheerss Nile Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Stynylres is a great primer, until it starts to thicken up in the bottle and then it becomes almost unusable. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 After clean up and degreasing and a short soak in vinegar, which I'm told can slightly etch the white metal, I've been using an acid etch primer but only in a really warm environment, or hot day outside. I waft on very fine coats so as not to flood the detail. The combination of super clean metal and acid etch gives a surface that is unlike any other I've come across, perfect, with slight tooth and ultra resistant. It'll even withstand moderate scalpel pressure. I leave this for at least 72 hours, often much longer before using the Vallejo primer more as an undercoat to build up opacity over the etch. As noted it is very good for not filling detail, however, I think it's next to useless as a first coat primer – that's just my limited experience of using it as such. I could just use the etch primer but being a car paint it's considered hi-build, which is why I only waft on very light coats on hot days when you can get good atomisation. Over the years I've tried all sorts of approaches and this is the one that works better than any other, I've tried, for what I want. A friend recently told me about using vinegar to degrease and slightly etch – I think it has made a difference, but that might be because my models are now being degreased first with cellulose thinners then vinegar so I must be getting them really clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Stynylres is a great primer, until it starts to thicken up in the bottle and then it becomes almost unusable. Jonathan Are you advising that Stynylres doesn't store well or have a useable shelf life Jonathan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durham light infantry Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I've not had any problems with the Stynlrez thickening yet. But what I do with it and all my acrylics in dropper style bottles is to add an agitator. I use M5 marine grade stainless steel nuts, again off ebay about £3 for 100. Acrylics are notorious for separating out so I turn them regularly, and to avoid getting too much air into the bottles I use a swirling motion rather than a vigorous shake. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 As the topic seems to have drifted a little, I find this very good when applied thinly, not that it's very thick anyway. https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/automotive/body-fillers/u-pol-acid-al-no-8-etch-primer-aerosol-450ml/p/CTL7508390M Other suppliers available, usual disclaimers etc. See also: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52480-etch-primer/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Stynylres does start to cure once its been opened. In my case it had doubled in thickness within a fortnight and needed alot of thinning with IPA. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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