Theo C. Cupier Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Have noticed this TV ad popping up a lot recently. Not sure who the sponsor is or the re-invented double arrows. Any thoughts from the forum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexagon789 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Britain Runs on Rail website, background info page: http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/background Hopefully this answers your question Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo C. Cupier Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Thanks for the reply. Yes, I had followed the link I posted above and realised it was the RDG, but the point I was trying to make was, that for the general public, it is not immediately obvious from the TV ad. Still not sure about the double arrows though. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Fascinating that the old "clickety-clack" noise is used as background, while most real trains now run on CWR. To me, it's a bit like using "chuff-chuff" noises. And it's a bold choice to focus on people and shelves rather than trains (not necessarily a bad one, though a bit surprising). The message I take from it is that the roads are now nice and empty, so I can use my car freely. The double arrow symbol is one of the finest pieces of graphic design from the last century. It doesn't need tarting up, though it's so strong it survives what RDG have done to it (I think they've actually weakened the visual impact a little, but I can guess at the "reasoning" behind it). BR also played with it - as at the end of this glorious classic ad: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h80Gt0rG8Jo Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'd be interested to know who holds the copyright for the double arrow logo these days and if they were asked permission for it to be used in this way. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'd be interested to know who holds the copyright for the double arrow logo these days and if they were asked permission for it to be used in this way. Jonathan DfT, here: http://www.doublearrow.co.uk/copyright.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Interesting - does that mean that any model company producing a model (or transfers) with the BR logo has to seek permission from Secretary of State for the Department for Transport before use? Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad McCann Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Don't bloody give them ideas, Jim! ;-) D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Technically, yes. I imagine the big companies have done just that. It would apply to all branding, I expect - my Southern Pacific locos say on the box that they are produced under license from Union Pacific, who bought the rights to the branding when they bought the company. That's in the US, of course, but I see no reason why the DfT's predecessors wouldn't have acquired the rights to the LNER branding for example when the railway was nationalised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 I too wonder what the purpose of this advert is. If anything, it provokes a negative reaction in me. If there are twice as many passengers, paying much higher fares, why are the subsidies for the rail system so much higher than they used to be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 For those unaware or who may not have read the links posted so far, the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) rebranded themselves as the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) recently and this appears to part of their marketing campaign to establish the new brand. RDG was of course the name of the new industry body proposed by Mr McNulty in his report on the current state and future direction of the UK rail industry some five years ago... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hello all, I had seen a poster ad at my local station and admit I shuddered when I saw how they'd tweaked the double arrows. I don't mind the colours so much, but they have altered the proportions of the diagonal arrows and, in my opinion, destroyed the balance. The original was a surprisingly subtle design; if you look at the original specification you'll see the ends of the arrows flare very slightly - without this flare the whole thing looks wrong, or at least not quite right. In theory the copyright is held by the Secretary of State, and permission should be sought, but I don't think decal makers need to worry too much. Any legal proceedings would consider precedent, and the DfT has chosen to ignore infringements by so many model companies and manufacturers for so long it would struggle to convince a court that it should suddenly be permitted to now. And that is before you even start with arguments about artistic freedom. Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60091 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'd assumed it was a propaganda exercise ahead of a long Easter weekend of closures, diversions and bus substitutions... but maybe I'm being too cynical? Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I just noticed the altered proportions of the arrowhead components on a roll of 'Britain Runs On Rail' stickers I have here. That's naughty and it has completely ruined the balance of the logo as Ben says. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher125 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 If anything, it provokes a negative reaction in me. If there are twice as many passengers, paying much higher fares, why are the subsidies for the rail system so much higher than they used to be? More passengers means more trains and higher operating costs, but IIRC it was recently suggested that income now effectively covers the day-to-day cost of running the railway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2017 Only in some parts of the country have higher passenger numbers led to more trains. In most cases, the trains have just become more crowded. In general, while I accept that extra passengers do lead to some additional costs, overall the economies of scale and having more bums on seats should mean that the railway does not need so much subsidy (or that the subsidy should lead to better outcomes). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 It is a fascinating propaganda advert, but like others, I do wonder what the motivation behind it is. What really concerns me is the proud boast about the £50 billion investment in the railway system and infrastructure. Whilst I applaud this investment, my concern is the amount of money spent on perceived 'spectacular' architechture, as evidenced by the shots showing the 'new' Kings Cross concourse. To my mind this isn't money well spent. It seems to me that we let the architects responsible have free reign on spectacular designs which don't give value for money! It's the same with lots of public buildings, such as hospitals and schools where money is wasted on eye catching designs, which are totally unnecessary. The money should be spent on the infrastructure contained within and the staff employed within such buildings. Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 There are very few rail projects with such architecture. And last time they did kings cross it was all about function over form, and you remember his horrible that was. If you're building a facility like kings cross it needs to be attractive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I agree you need to make buildings visually attractive, whilst at the same time being functional. Birmingham New Street is another case in point as are some of the Cross Rail edifices. What I do take issue with, is money wasted on spectacular architecture for the sake of it. Give me simple classic architecture every time, architecture that is timeless and not something that falls in line with current trendy thinking, and within a few years looks horribly dated. This is just my opinion, just as yours in yours. Davey There are very few rail projects with such architecture. And last time they did kings cross it was all about function over form, and you remember his horrible that was. If you're building a facility like kings cross it needs to be attractive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I wish the bit of Britain that I live in could run on rail, but they were ripped up 50 years ago! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 There are very few rail projects with such architecture. And last time they did kings cross it was all about function over form, and you remember his horrible that was. If you're building a facility like kings cross it needs to be attractive. But it also needs a warm waiting room in January; we've frozen there twice waiting for Virgin trains. Looks nice but grim Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 For those unaware or who may not have read the links posted so far, the Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) rebranded themselves as the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) recently and this appears to part of their marketing campaign to establish the new brand. RDG was of course the name of the new industry body proposed by Mr McNulty in his report on the current state and future direction of the UK rail industry some five years ago... It isn't just ATOC, it now includes Network Rail and Freight Operating Companies in its membership so for the first time since privatization the whole industry is at least in one tent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 But it also needs a warm waiting room in January; we've frozen there twice waiting for Virgin trains. Looks nice but grim Paul That's not really anything to do with the architecture. I can find any number of inadequately heated waiting areas in stations of every vintage.Though in a new station it should have been got right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 It is a fascinating propaganda advert, but like others, I do wonder what the motivation behind it is. What really concerns me is the proud boast about the £50 billion investment in the railway system and infrastructure. Whilst I applaud this investment, my concern is the amount of money spent on perceived 'spectacular' architechture, as evidenced by the shots showing the 'new' Kings Cross concourse. To my mind this isn't money well spent. It seems to me that we let the architects responsible have free reign on spectacular designs which don't give value for money! It's the same with lots of public buildings, such as hospitals and schools where money is wasted on eye catching designs, which are totally unnecessary. The money should be spent on the infrastructure contained within and the staff employed within such buildings. Davey I think I would prefer them to waste a bit of money on architects than have a revitalised CLASP system for the 21st century. By Sunil060902 - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=4743812 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consortium_of_Local_Authorities_Special_Programme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLASP_(British_Rail) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 That's not really anything to do with the architecture. I can find any number of inadequately heated waiting areas in stations of every vintage. Though in a new station it should have been got right. I don't understand this comment. Architects are responsible for all of the design of a building, not just the fancy bits. This rebuild is not fit for purpose and Julie was ill for a fortnight after being exposed there early one Sunday morning. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.