G-Train Locomotive Works - LNER B3 'Valour'

[richard i]

Hi Graham[/size]Its nice to see this project out in the public domain now. Congratulation with how far you've got. I'm sure if the etches are being arranged by Nick Easton they will be good - he did the Howlden Louth Quad I have - which I have yet to build (but they look very good). Likewise the boiler from Graeme K.[/size]For those reading this thread I'll post a photo of my Valour, built from a Ks B2 about 26 years.[/size]I have a set of etches to help me build a B8 using a boiler from a Ks/NuCast B2 which I have spare. These etches are fairly basic as I drew up the original drawings for them but include loco chassis, footplate, splashers, cab and front frame extensions. They were etched for me by a fellow member of the British Railway Modellers of Australia (BRMA) here in Adelaide a few years ago. Not quite sure when I'll get around to building this as I have a full program for the next couple of years to build the locos and other rollingstock for an exhibition layout based on Spilsby being built by another member of BRMA.[/size]I also have a set of etches from Mike Edge for a B9, as well as an ancient McGowan B4 kit for which I'm going to use a modified Bachmann O4 boiler which I have spare. These will eventually join Valour, B2 City of Lincoln and my B5.[/size]I'm contemplating one of your B3 kits as I fancy Lord Faringdon.[/size]I will however definitely order one of the subsequent B7s - I already have a Bachmann self-trimming tender set aside. Please put me on the list for that.[/size]Regards[/size]Andrew Emmett[/size]

Really like what you have done with the b3.

I seem to be taking a similar journey to you. However, mine are all in gcr livery. Is there anyway that the b8 etch would be available? I have a spare b2 boiler and had in mind I would need to scratch build the rest.

Richard

[James Harrison]

Watching with interest.  I've got something roughly B3-shaped (bought off Ebay and then re-worked by myself), but a proper model would be grand. 

[Woodcock29]

Really like what you have done with the b3.

I seem to be taking a similar journey to you. However, mine are all in gcr livery. Is there anyway that the b8 etch would be available? I have a spare b2 boiler and had in mind I would need to scratch build the rest.

Richard

Hi Richard

Unfortunately it is not possible to get a set of the B8 etches as the person concerned does not undertake etching anymore.  I expect I'll have to fettle the parts a bit to get them all to fit given I did the initial drawings and have not had anything etched before!

 

Regards

 

Andrew

[Jol Wilkinson]

Andrew,

 

if the etch tool still exists (probably still with the etching company) producing further etches is not a great problem.

 

It's usually putting all the bits together to make a kit that stops a producer making more, especially if it was based around a model they designed for their own needs/want. Nick Easton's BIWO kits are one example (although London Road Models took over distribution/sales for a period), another is John Batesons GCR 4-6-0 kits. Some, like Bob Williams LNWR 2-4-0 Samson, pass into an established Small Suppliers range (LRM again).

 

An approach to the original kit designer might come up with a positive result, for the etches at least.

 

Jol

[gr.king]

Taster bulletin. More images and details tomorrow, with luck....

[iak]

Wobbling furiously...

[Bedders]

Calm thyself lest unseemly arousals of passion occur.

 

I'm afraid that your warning, though approprate, comes far too late in the thread to have a dampening effect and I desired it with an ardour that far exceeds moderation

[gr.king]

Reflect upon thy mortal fallibility and repent.

 

P.S. It's only a model.

Edited September 9, 2018 by gr.king

[Horsetan]

I suppose sales of kitchen towel will also rise....

[iak]

No need thank you....

[gr.king]

Time for some further comment on what's developing:

Having made the necessary alterations to the originally slightly off-centre base of the smokebox it was time to think about the face. Reference to copies of works drawings in volume 2 of E.M. Johnson's excellent GC locos book showed that smokebox doors for the large-boilered 4-6-0s were the same as those for the Directors, notwithstanding the 3" smaller boiler diameters of the latter. It turned out that I already had a door for a Director, of correct diameter, with nice hinge detail (to save me from modelling that from scratch all over again) but the visible width of seating ring was almost nil. That's why the door in the following picture, merely Blu-tacked in place at present, has a new disc of black plastic creating a seating ring, which is now a shade too wide if anything - but users will be able to trim that down if desired with just few careful, well distributed strokes of a fine file. That's more practical than trying to widen a ring that's too narrow. The master door will otherwise remain plain, bar pop-marks for the centre fastening and the handrail pillars. A separate wheel-and handle or twni handle arrangement properly made will look far better than a moulded feature. I prefer to make wheel and handle from a 0.5mm wire spindle, a shoulderless handrail knob cut to length as the handle, and a Brassmasters nickel silver handwheel. Others may have their own ideas. The tiny bubble defect in the lowest part of the door hinge pin has already been detected and filled....

The door would have been far too small for the smokebox front as previously seen, the smokebox walls being only 2mm or less in thickness and the internal diameter 22mm, so four sleeves of 0.5mm plasticard have been added to bring the internal diameter down to less than 18mm. In the picture, these had only had their first round of filing and sanding back, leaving the front a little rough. Two more rounds of smoothing and primer application have since given a far better finish. The 4+mm thick smokebox base is a vital feature of the model boiler, since the first "proper" one to be completed will be destined for professional painting and lining by a man who requires boilers to be removable. Hence a screw through the smokebox base and couple through the cab front into the shoulders of the firebox must be accommodated in the design. A separable boiler may also be useful for those builders who want to be able to slide / jiggle a motor-gearbox combination into the forward part of the boiler without having to cut out visible parts of the boiler bottom.

Very conveniently, that 1' 3" GC pattern chimney, and the dome, come from moulds that I had already made for other purposes.

Edited September 10, 2018 by gr.king

[gr.king]

Side view; not much crosses my mind about this at present, save to say that I gather that a minor alteration was made for the production versions of the etches in order to better match up the top rear corner of the cab sidesheet to what is evident in photographs, rather than the slightly different geometry that was evident on the works drawing in the Johnson book.

[gr.king]

Cab interior with probable backhead master in place. Internal cab splashers are a feature of the final versions of the etches but are conspicuously omitted from this trial build of the test etches. The backhead is an attempt at a GC pattern, but was not originally for a B3 in particular, nor a B7, so fanatical inspection and comparison of pipework, valves, gauges and minute detail of the firebox door will reveal discrepancies. I've extended the lower edges of it so that it should include enough material to now suit large or small wheeled large-boiler GC 4-6-0s. It will need trimming to fit in each case. There's a basic representation of the screw reverser on the right side, as you'll see. Those who like ultra-detailed cab interiors may choose to go one-better and make a separate screw reverser, although on these locos the item was mounted well-forward in the cab anyway, so the gain in appearance may be quite small. Older Robinson locos such as the B4s, O4s, Q4s and J11s had their reversers mounted much further back in the cab, and with the original type of cab with side cut-outs the reversers were very visible in some photos, hence I've felt compelled to spend time making models of the reverser for my models of those locos. I think I may favour the lazier approach if and when I build my own B3.

Edited September 9, 2018 by gr.king

[gr.king]

In order to resist any tendency for boilers to go out of shape if subjected to too much warmth or pressure (and who knows what might happen if these things are sent by post or are left in somebody's maturing pile for years) the intention is that all boilers will be produced fully circular throughout their lengths. The lower firebox sides needed for those boilers that are destined for small-wheeled locos will be present in every case. Guidelines will be provided on the trimming of boilers to fit the loco. In the case of anybody building a B3 in OO gauge, a large part of the lower firebox (to a line outside of the moulded-on lower sides) and of the lower part of the boiler barrel will have to be trimmed away in order to clear the wheel tops. P4 builders may not have to trim the boiler to anything like the same extent, unless they want clearance for a fat motor. Everybody of course is likely to need to trim away the material between the lower firebox sides in order to get a motor of some sort into the loco.

As a means of establishing the correct characteristics for a master boiler, I had to trim back the width of the splasher tops by about 1mm in each case in order to get the basic 24mm diameter boiler barrel to sit down at the correct level. Access for the necessary filing wasn't ideal, but it was possible. One of the most awkward aspects was the filing of the inner face of the extension cover for the reverser, which sits on the right hand side splasher just in front of the cab. Builders of subsequent locos may find it useful to get the boiler fitting as it should before adding that reverser cover.

As a possibly easier alternative to the filing back of the splasher tops to allow the boiler to sit between, the resin copies of the boiler could instead be trimmed by builders so as to sit neatly on the splasher tops. It all depends on which result you think can be achieved most readily and neatly...

Edited September 9, 2018 by gr.king

[gr.king]

Once the latest coat of primer on the boiler is really hard and has had any remaining defects rectified, I can move on to the addition of the plugs in the firebox sides, the blisters on the shoulders, a single step on the smokebox front, and some faintly discernible flat-surfaced cladding bands. I don't want to upset any professional painters by providing bands that are too heavy, or that are too narrow or are uneven or are round-topped so that lining won't sit on them properly! A separate resin snifting valve is a possibility, but I think Ross Pop safety valves are probably best sourced separately, in metal. They are actually possible in resin, with wire reinforcement too, but casting them bubble-free and flash-free on a kitchen-table basis isn't so easy, and cleaning off flash without damage to the tiny castings or to one's own temperament isn't a job that suits all.

I think it has already been mentioned that other small castings to be prepared will included the little piano-front cover that sits between the frames in front of the smokebox, the cylinder front covers, the rear sandboxes and possibly some sandbox lids. If I can work out what might be required and whether they can be made satisfactorily, there may be some sort of pieces to sit behind each motion bracket too.

I may get back later with another picture to show the clash between OO wheels and the un-trimmed lower boiler. I'm hopeful that the boiler has been by far the biggest element in my part of this project, in which case I may now be on a downhill run towards completion.

Note now made following comment elsewhere to check dome height. An alternative dome and a plant pot chimney might be considered - but nothing guaranteed at this stage.

Edited September 9, 2018 by gr.king

[gr.king]

More detail on the matter of dome heights and on coupled wheel clearances (or lack of them) under the boiler covered at

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12925&p=128940#p128940

and probably not worth duplicating in full here.

[LNER4479]

Thanks, Graeme for those latest boiler progress photos. I'd better keep pace with details of the test build, starting with the chassis.

 

Here are the frames, prepared ready for assembly. The spring detail is an overlay etch. Half etch cut-outs are provided on the inside for those who wish to fit proper axleboxes. The non prototypical down piece between the front and middle axle holes is an alternative mounting point for the brake blocks, as there's not much clearance to play with here.

 

 

Here it is all set up in the Poppy's jg, being soldered up. The coupling rods (usual two etches, sweated together for a chunkier look to the rods) have been assembled to assist in ensuring accurate alignment of the frames. The rods can be jointed but I haven't bothered on this build.

 

Everything fitted fine (spacers have the usual half etch slots allowing use for either EM/P4 or OO, as in this case). Nice and square n true with the wheels fitted (this is just a spare, older set of Romfords - I'll be using newer RP25s for the finished model) and, although not shown here, where subsequently fitted with crankpins, a test fit of the rods saw it running smoothly without any tight spots. A promising start.

 

 

I showed the assembled bogie in the original post. Here are the bogie sides assembled. A total of three etches for each side which give some nice layered detail. There was an error in the positioning of the curved slot for the bogie centre pin; that has subsequently been corrected for the pre-production etches.

 

 

The cylinder formers simply slot into the mainframes at 90 degrees.

 

With the front former soldered into place, a length of 2mm rod is used as an alignment check to check it passes through the centre of centre wheelset - the rear former can be adjusted to get this accurate before soldering up.

 

The most challenging part of the chassis is the distinctive motion bracket. This folds up from a single etch. The top profile of its shape has been refined slightly for the pre-production etch. There is a front and back to each bracket.

 

These are quite small parts! Four slidebar assemblies in total; each fits in a half-etch on the inside of the brackets.

 

This shows the bracket assembly now with the slidebars fitted. A certain amount of fettling of the slidebar assembly and crosshead slides was required to get a smooth running fit but I guess that's better than things being too sloppy.

 

This shows the overall effect of work done to this stage. The bracket assembly is only tack soldered at this stage as it need to come off to allow access for the next stage. A clue to this is given by the 1.5mm tube soldered laterally in front of the motion bracket. That's for the outside valve arrangement which I'll feature next time.

Edited November 9, 2022 by LNER4479
Restore pictures

[jwealleans]

I was looking at another one of these (in brass) built to more or less the same point today. Without difficulty, the builder tells me.

[iak]

Simply stunning...

[Horsetan]

Taster bulletin. More images and details tomorrow, with luck....

STA71065.JPG

 

Just wondering whether it would be feasible to have a brass tube (a bit more weight) for the boiler barrel instead of the resin one...

[gr.king]

Should anybody know of a good and honest metal caster who might be interested in producing copies of the boiler from the completed true-size master (i.e. it has no shrinkage allowance), for those disinclined to use resin, then I may be happy to make the master part available, for return undamaged of course, but I'm not interested in doing the leg-work of looking for a suitable caster, and the reduction of potential demand for resin boilers would have to be considered.

 

If builders take the trouble to put the motor in the right place in the boiler, there's always the alternative possibility of filling the remaining spaces inside the boiler with lead.

[gr.king]

I was looking at another one of these (in brass) built to more or less the same point today. Without difficulty, the builder tells me.

Perhaps he could finish off this one for us. I'm happy to watch telly, go for a walk, snooze or stare at the clouds instead......

[Horsetan]

Should anybody know of a good and honest metal caster who might be interested in producing copies of the boiler.....

 

Not the whole thing! I was thinking more in terms of a simple (yeah, right) brass tube to plug in between the resin smokebox and firebox.

[PenrithBeacon]

Not the whole thing! I was thinking more in terms of a simple (yeah, right) brass tube to plug in between the resin smokebox and firebox.

The boiler is quite large, I should think a roll of lead sheet would do the trick. Providing of course that you don't use PVA to fix it!

[gr.king]

Limiting it to the barrel, I could see the point in using a decent thickness of lead sheet, rolled to shape. Were thin brass sheet used instead surely the weight gain would be fairly trivial? It's something that a builder could do for himself by cutting the boiler in the two relevant places and using inner layers to create rebate joints or an overlap. I don't intend to alter the master boiler or the mould simply to cater for those who wish to do things in that different, more complex way, but equally I don't expect to be doing anything to the master boiler that would make it impossible to substitute a tube of metal.

If I can get enough fine lead shot into a resin mixture to meaningfully increase its density without seriously impairing the ability of the resin to flow enough to fill the mould properly, I may be able to produce some heavy versions of the boiler, but I'm not counting on being able to do that. The fine lead shot appears to be stable when sealed in resin.

The boiler barrel of my first DJH large-boilered GN Atlantic was completely filled with fine lead shot, secured with water-resistant white (PVA?) adhesive (the resin W type I believe) well over a decade ago, and when dry it was sealed up with the type of resin used for GRP repairs to car bodies. The resin and the boiler still show no sign of bulging or cracking.