Memphis32 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Guten Abend! (Just caught the spell-checker change to gluten...) I’m compiling ideas for a German-themed layout and am getting a bit stuck on the vast compromises I’m going to have to accept... I would like to base it on the Rhine valley between Bingen and Boppard (I went on the river cruise a few times as a child) in late steam era, so double-track mainline perched on steep rocky hillside. I only have 3.5m (scenic) length however. I’d like a station (probably doesn’t need to be big enough for non-stop expresses), and a bit of shunting interest. St.Goar’s old layout, Kaub, and Boppard look good, but would take up five times the length I have. The branch line from Boppard is also tempting... Any thoughts? I was planning on compressing front to back, to make the hillside more dramatic (and take up less space!). In terms of how realistic I’m aiming for, I guess somewhere between a British scale model and a German tail-chaser, erring on the side of realistic (if that makes sense!!). Track would be peco c75 (Tillig would take up too much space, and would show up my other layout!!) I will also add that there will be a helix at each end, positions determined by the other layout, so the approach is fixed. I will try to get around to posting pics of what is planned already next week, so you get the idea!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Guter morgen! I like the sound of this. I have hunted high & low but failed to find any track plans (Gleispläne or Streckenpläne) for you, sorry. However, if you don't have any photos of your own, I'm sure there are plenty on Flickr to help. My own photos of Boppard and Co. seem to be locked away on an old computer but it is still a fascinating area, even more so in early era IV with steam, green, TEE and blue/cream electrics and maroon and blue/cream diesels - just wonderful. Cheers and good luck, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I visited the Rhine Valley 20 years ago staying at Boppard for a few nights. Fascinating area with trains running on both sides of the river. I stayed at Boppard so that I could travel on the steepy graded branch line to Emmelshausen. I visited most of the towns including Bingen. Great variety of passenger and freight trains and different liveries at that time. Local branch train at Boppard. BR 141 at Boppard 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmporiaSub Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Or the branch train from Boppard, up at Emmelshausen, back in the 1980's. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 31, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2018 I haven't travelled the West Bank on the Lorelei Express in almost 50 years, but Sherry and I did the East Bank from Assmanshausen to Koblenz and back last year, having done the cruise to Boppard the previous day. The rails are delightfully busy. I think your main problem will be getting the rise in the background to look right. All those castles and vineyards will take some representing. And do make sure you have some realistic tunnels - it really is rabbit warren stuff both sides of the river. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Here is a pic of the branch train arrived at Emmelshausen. BR143. I think this may be Bingen, from where we took the ferry over to Rudesheim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2018 Here is a friend's layout, 'Rhineside' in TT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMA7IC6Cld0 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 If you did something in N gauge in your available space you could capture the feel of the Rhine Valley quite well I think. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Does it have to be HO? Going to be very difficult to do much in that space. Perhaps best not to bother with a station and find a location with some sort of freight facility for operational interest. Or you might just get away with modelling one end of a station with the tracks disappearing below a road bridge. Edit to add: Just been looking at Boppard on Google Earth. See that there is a rather quaint chain ferry across to the other bank. No suitable scenic breaks just there but that would be a fun thing to model. Edited August 1, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Z Gauge might be better for capturing the dramatic scenery. Looking down from the Loreley rock in July 2014:- Edited August 2, 2018 by HSB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike at C&M Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Z Gauge might be better for capturing the dramatic scenery. Looking down from the Lorelei rock in July 2014:- DSCF0284.JPG I have vague recollections that one year for the Nurnberg show in February, Marklin built a Z gauge model of this very section of line upon which to show of their new models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Does it have to be HO? Going to be very difficult to do much in that space. Perhaps best not to bother with a station and find a location with some sort of freight facility for operational interest. Or you might just get away with modelling one end of a station with the tracks disappearing below a road bridge. Edit to add: Just been looking at Boppard on Google Earth. See that there is a rather quaint chain ferry across to the other bank. No suitable scenic breaks just there but that would be a fun thing to model. It does have to be H0 I’m afraid, partly that I like the size of the models better than N or smaller (0 would be nice, but no room!), partly sentimental attachment to a model or two. And the fact that I’d like it to link in to the other layout which has some considerable time invested in already, so as to form part of a continuous run (not enough room for each to have its own). I’m liking the idea of the partial station - I had dismissed it as there were very few bridges over the line that I could find, and none of them in attractive places. I’ve abandoned the idea of reproducing a particular location though, so “based on” will do fine. That ought to allow more space for the branch junction and small loco shed from Boppard. Any ideas what the last steam locos were to operate the branch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2018 I don’t really read German, but it appears 94.5 locos were in use until the mid-50s, according to a Wiki I found on the Hunsrückbahn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Hello Memphis, I finally found some track plan sites on t'web; http://www.sporenplan.nl/html_de/index.html (Dutch site, German plans) http://www.gleisplaene.de/galerie.php http://www.gleisplaene-archiv.de/archivliste/a.xml - you have to pay a small sum for this, maybe worth it? Hope this helps, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 Right, finally got some ideas on (virtual) paper. I haven't looked at the links from that last post yet, so they may influence how this develops, but thought I'd just encourage feedback on this anyway! A track plan of Boppard I found years ago, doesn't appear to be to scale: A plan based on a simplifies right-hand end of that plan (big green boxes are a bad attempt at landscaping) 3D of above (station building is supposed to be two floors, lower at track height, upper at road height) There would be steep rocky/vineyard/forested hills behind the road, and to hide the LH exit and branch exit. Assumption is village is off to the left. Remember this is a freelance based on, not attempting to be a recreation of a particular place! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2018 I think that your platforms are rather too long relative to your available 3.5m scenic length. If the level crossing on the left could become a road overbridge, I think that you could capture the spirit of Boppard quite well. If short of space, you could even not run trains on the mainline and just run branch (fiddleyard/cassette) into the station while having another loco doing a bit of shunting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 8, 2018 Author Share Posted August 8, 2018 I think that your platforms are rather too long relative to your available 3.5m scenic length. If the level crossing on the left could become a road overbridge, I think that you could capture the spirit of Boppard quite well. If short of space, you could even not run trains on the mainline and just run branch (fiddleyard/cassette) into the station while having another loco doing a bit of shunting. I'm sticking with the twin mainline, but I was thinking the proportions were a bit wrong too. The thing on the left is representing a stone footbridge over the line, as a scenic break. I will try to move everything over to the left, giving the branch junction a bit more space, and will try to fit the left crossover off-scene. The branch has the dubious distinction of being the steepest adhesion-hauled (is that the right term?) in west germany, at 1:16.4!! On another topic - anyone have an idea of when timber sleepering would have been replaced by concrete? I've done some searching but with no useful results... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2018 I'm sticking with the twin mainline, but I was thinking the proportions were a bit wrong too. The thing on the left is representing a stone footbridge over the line, as a scenic break. I will try to move everything over to the left, giving the branch junction a bit more space, and will try to fit the left crossover off-scene. The branch has the dubious distinction of being the steepest adhesion-hauled (is that the right term?) in west germany, at 1:16.4!! On another topic - anyone have an idea of when timber sleepering would have been replaced by concrete? I've done some searching but with no useful results... I have just been looking at some photos. That incline out of the station is impressive. The junction at the right-hand end is going to take a minimum of 4' and not leave a lot for the engine shed. That does not leave you much for the rest. A footbridge, especially some of the bigger German ones can make a good scenic break. While going through the Google photos, I came across another potential scenic break, a massive stone watchtower at the end of a girder bridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted August 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2018 Boppard was covered in an issue of European Railways magazine — the article was written by Steve Rabone. Not sure which issue it was, but it would be helpful if you could track it down. (If I find my copy I'll update this post). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 A couple more pics of Boppard taken during my visit in 1998. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 Some further work, this time on rearranging where to put the current baseboards and proposed helices. These show my British layout baseboard as built, with the yellow tracks being the lines to and from it. First plan: Second plan: This allows for larger radius curves (and shallower gradient), going from R3 to R4 on the outer line (up for the British layout), and gives me almost half a metre extra between scenic breaks for the German layout, at the expense of more complicated benchwork at the RH end, and the RH entry point being further back than I'd like: One option that has just occured to me is that I could swap the RH exits for the mainline and branch, ie have the mainline disappear into a tunnel in the hillside, with the branch climbing the hill in front of it, and over. On the subject of the branch gradient - the photos show the engine shed to be below the level of the mainline and station, which makes the gradient look worse than it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 One more attempt - the plan has been rotated 180deg (but would still have hillside climbing behind), so the branch departs in front of the mainline. Platform between the two further apart lines at the RH end, with scenic break (probably that huge round tower in the photos) hiding the pointwork at that end. I think that creates a bit more space, so the junction is more of a feature in the middle, and the platform takes up a smaller proportion of the layout. There may even be room for a small viaduct before the tunnel the branch disappears into. Would the BR94.5 have been push-pull? I've tried to research turntables up the branch but haven't found anything... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 To flesh that one out (and hopefully get some feedback!), I've added some (bad) landscaping (and tweaked the flow of the track a little). Is this starting to look like it has potential? In terms of scenery, I'm thinking that the village/town would be between the railway and Rhine, so where the operator is standing. There would be the potential to extend the board forward (in a removable for access manner) if I suddenly developed a skill for modelling buildings at a later date. The giant tower at the RH end isn't seeming great for hiding the exit, so the stone footbridge (access to beyond the retaining wall?) may need to make a reappearance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmporiaSub Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 One more attempt - the plan has been rotated 180deg (but would still have hillside climbing behind), so the branch departs in front of the mainline. Platform between the two further apart lines at the RH end, with scenic break (probably that huge round tower in the photos) hiding the pointwork at that end. I think that creates a bit more space, so the junction is more of a feature in the middle, and the platform takes up a smaller proportion of the layout. There may even be room for a small viaduct before the tunnel the branch disappears into. Would the BR94.5 have been push-pull? I've tried to research turntables up the branch but haven't found anything... There was a turntable further up the line at Simmern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I'm sticking with the twin mainline, but I was thinking the proportions were a bit wrong too. The thing on the left is representing a stone footbridge over the line, as a scenic break. I will try to move everything over to the left, giving the branch junction a bit more space, and will try to fit the left crossover off-scene. The branch has the dubious distinction of being the steepest adhesion-hauled (is that the right term?) in west germany, at 1:16.4!! On another topic - anyone have an idea of when timber sleepering would have been replaced by concrete? I've done some searching but with no useful results... Back in the 80's a fair amount of track on mainlines in West Germany used metal, presumably steel sleepers. Probably not helpful at all, unless there is someone out there who makes same. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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