LSWR/SR stone wagon load

[Coromar]

Hi All,

 

I have built a LSWR stone wagon, and I wish to load it up.

 

Would it have several large pieces, or would it have dressed stone pieces?

 

How were they tied down (if they were)?

 

Any ideas would be great.

 

Best wishes,

 

Paul

[N15class]

One would imagine they were not tied down. Unless odd shaped and were likely to rock around.

I've seen pictures somewhere of loaded wagons at Swanage.

[dpgibbons]

Googling "Portland stone wagon" will give you some answers. 

[Northroader]

Here’s a link on my thread where I did one with paving slabs:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107190-washbourne/page-11

[Guy Rixon]

One would imagine they were not tied down. Unless odd shaped and were likely to rock around.

I've seen pictures somewhere of loaded wagons at Swanage.

 

Ten tons of stone blocks loose in a wagon sounds like an invitation to an accident. Were they not at least spragged to stop them sliding?

[Coromar]

Thank you for your replies.

 

Googling Portland stone wagons takes me to USA sites !

 

There must be pictures somewhere ?

 

Paul

[petethemole]

You'll find some useful material here http://www.geoffkirby.co.uk/PortlandArchivePictures/html/rail.html. No pictures of LSWR stone wagons but several of the type of load they would have carried, loaded on quarry railway wagons prior to transhipment. A major part of the traffic for the LSWR wagons was Portland stone for building in London.

[Joseph_Pestell]

It might help to see the wagon the OP is referring to.

 

I think that cut stone blocks would be loaded onto either a flat wagon or a low-sided wagon. And the stones would need to be strapped down. I think that rope would risk damaging the stone.

 

I too have seen a photo of Burt's yard in Swanage. Can't find it now but I think that was ordinary mineral wagons carrying rubble (i.e. the remains of the stone after cutting).

[Fat Controller]

I wonder if they used a similar technique to that used when conveying ingot-moulds; a bed of ballast or similar upon which the load was carefully placed. The L&SWR wagons for stone traffic had very low sides; I believe Cambrian do a model.

In much more recent times, the big blocks of limestone for the breakwater at Port Talbot and the Thames Barrier were not roped, but simply placed on the wagon floor; the Plate wagons used similarly had low sides.

[devonseasider]

This web page might be of use.

 

https://tinyurl.com/y96lprkv

 

A couple of photos right at the top of the page showing stone from Beer being handled at Seaton.

 

 

[N15class]

I wonder if they used a similar technique to that used when conveying ingot-moulds; a bed of ballast or similar upon which the load was carefully placed. The L&SWR wagons for stone traffic had very low sides; I believe Cambrian do a model.

In much more recent times, the big blocks of limestone for the breakwater at Port Talbot and the Thames Barrier were not roped, but simply placed on the wagon floor; the Plate wagons used similarly had low sides.

They don't rope large blocks on road transport either. I agree the low sided stone wagons where for the larger pieces.

[daifly]

Googling Portland stone wagons takes me to USA sites !

 

If this type of Google response becomes a problem, simply include UK as part of the search. E.g. 'Portland stone wagon UK' avoids all of the Oregon irrelevances.

Dave

[MarcD]

There is a photo of a stone block train from the De-Lank quarry passing wenfordbridge dries. The wagons all seam to be LSWR 3plank drop sides (10 in total) with a brake van on each end.

It's plate 64 in the branch lines around Bodmin book.

Marc

[Fat Controller]

It might help to see the wagon the OP is referring to.

 

I think that cut stone blocks would be loaded onto either a flat wagon or a low-sided wagon. And the stones would need to be strapped down. I think that rope would risk damaging the stone.

 

I too have seen a photo of Burt's yard in Swanage. Can't find it now but I think that was ordinary mineral wagons carrying rubble (i.e. the remains of the stone after cutting).

Where ropes might damage a load, and conversely, where the ropes might be damaged by the load, hessian sacks, filled with straw, were placed between the two. More recently, the bags became polypropylene, but the stuffing remained straw.

[jwealleans]

We all know you shouldn't model a model, but here are Ron Rising's stone wagons from Corfe. Ron was a very thorough researcher, so I'd attach a fair amount of credibiity to these.

The stone is a plastic box covered with Milliput.

 

[Guy Rixon]

I don't want to be over picky, but in that first photo the loading is very uneven. Most of the weight is over one axle. I wonder if the springs and journals on the full-size wagon would tolerate that.

[Northroader]

Just looking at the single stone block on the wagon, the smaller one, we know the wheelbase is 9’, allow a block length of 8’, although it looks more. It fits comfortably in a body width of 7’5”, so allow a block width of 6’. At a rough guess the block height is half the length, say 4’. This gives you a block volume of 192 cu. ft., and if you take limestone density as 171 lb/ cu. foot, (Portland might be a bit more) it comes out that the block weighs 32,832 lb., or 14.66 tons, on a ten ton wagon, so be careful how big you make your blocks.

[Fat Controller]

I don't want to be over picky, but in that first photo the loading is very uneven. Most of the weight is over one axle. I wonder if the springs and journals on the full-size wagon would tolerate that.

Incipient flange climb..

[Donw]

I dont know how the weight of Pennant Sandstone compares but the photos I have seen of the stone carried on the Forest of Dean lines looked as thogh the blocks were a little smaller.

 

Don

[Compound2632]

Another Railway I'm afraid, but this photo of Corsham gives some idea. There's discussion and links to further photos in nearby posts in the same topic.

[Coromar]

Great photo, Thank you.

 

Paul

[Trog]

I don't want to be over picky, but in that first photo the loading is very uneven. Most of the weight is over one axle. I wonder if the springs and journals on the full-size wagon would tolerate that.

 

When I was trained to load wagons I seem to remember being told that for four wheel wagons the load ratio over the two axles should not exceed 2:1, for bogie wagons it was 3:1 over the two bogies.

[N15class]

Just found this. Large granite blocks no sign of ropes or chains. But does seem to have some form of protection to too edges.

 

[MarcD]

That was the photo I was trying to find.

Marc

[Coromar]

Hi Peter,

 

What a super photo. Just what I was looking for, thank you.

 

Paul