Identification required - 'Ango-Scottish Car Carrier' c.1967/68

[Trev52A]

I've used the search facility and I don't appear to have asked this question here before, although I have previously hawked this photo around a couple of sites in the hope that someone can provide some information.

 

I know roughly 'when' I took this picture - by the type of negative it must be 1967 or 1968.

I also know 'where' - it's my favourite 1960's spotting haunt of Low Fell, Gateshead.

I also recognise the train - it's the northbound 'Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier' (although that may not have been its official title at the time, but you know what I mean.)

 

Unfortunately I have no record of the exact date or the identity of the locos and the negative is not sharp enough to read them. It would appear that the BR/Sulzer Type 2 has been commandeered off a freight somewhere, complete with brake tender (which is now carrying XP headlamps - which must be a rare sight?) and has gone to the rescue of the ailing Brush Type 4. Both locos are in green livery with small yellow panels.

 

Due to the fact that at the time I used to cut my 35mm negatives into individual singles, I do not know what the preceding or next shot was, which could have helped, and unfortunately since it was the start or end of the film there is no negative number on the edge to tie it in with the rest of the film. The quality of the photograph is not of the best which is probably why I didn't think it was worth recording the details at the time, and it was never printed, but now it has been scanned it is passable.

 

 

Is there anyone else who saw this, who has a 50 year-old notebook or a good memory who could help, please?

 

Yours in hope 

Trevor

 

Update: See my post #8 on 20th December

Edited December 20, 2018 by Trev52A

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Trev

 

I can't help, I thought I could because I remembered there was a photo of a class 25 with brake tender rescuing the car carrier train on the Hornby magazine brake tender thread. Guess what,    it is your photo. :no2:

[Trev52A]

Thanks for trying, Clive!

I don't remember uploading that myself to the site you mentioned, (and I can't actually find it now!), so I suspect it was 'lifted' from the David Hey site where I first put it a few years ago.

 

I also now realise I actually uploaded the picture onto this RMweb site onto the 'Prototype Discussions' section under 'Class 47...'  back in December 2017 (D'oh!)

 

Hopefully it will have a better chance of ringing bells with someone here in the 'Questions' section.

 

Regards

Trevor

[Phil Bullock]

Stunning photo Trevor..thanks for posting and the reminder of where it had been seen before.

[Wibble]

Thanks for trying, Clive!

I don't remember uploading that myself to the site you mentioned, (and I can't actually find it now!), so I suspect it was 'lifted' from the David Hey site where I first put it a few years ago.

 

I also now realise I actually uploaded the picture onto this RMweb site onto the 'Prototype Discussions' section under 'Class 47...'  back in December 2017 (D'oh!)

 

Hopefully it will have a better chance of ringing bells with someone here in the 'Questions' section.

 

Regards

Trevor

Clive is always trying!

 

Sorry not much help here, but lovely pic anyway.

[Wickham Green]

I've used the search facility and I don't appear to have asked this question here before, although I have previously hawked this photo around a couple of sites in the hope that someone can provide some information.

 

I know roughly 'when' I took this picture - by the type of negative it must be 1967 or 1968.

I also know 'where' - it's my favourite 1960's spotting haunt of Low Fell, Gateshead.

I also recognise the train - it's the northbound 'Anglo-Scottish Car Carrier' (although that may not have been its official title at the time, but you know what I mean.)

 

Unfortunately I have no record of the exact date or the identity of the locos and the negative is not sharp enough to read them. It would appear that the BR/Sulzer Type 2 has been commandeered off a freight somewhere, complete with brake tender (which is now carrying XP headlamps - which must be a rare sight?) and has gone to the rescue of the ailing Brush Type 4. Both locos are in green livery with small yellow panels.

 

Due to the fact that at the time I used to cut my 35mm negatives into individual singles, I do not know what the preceding or next shot was, which could have helped, and unfortunately since it was the start or end of the film there is no negative number on the edge to tie it in with the rest of the film. The quality of the photograph is not of the best which is probably why I didn't think it was worth recording the details at the time, and it was never printed, but now it has been scanned it is passable.

 

(748iS) D51xx+D1xxx Low Fell c.1967 or 68 (Trevor Ermel) .jpg

 

Is there anyone else who saw this, who has a 50 year-old notebook or a good memory who could help, please?

 

Yours in hope 

Trevor

Shame there's no headboard to complement the XP headlamps on the brake tender ! 

 

The not-so-subtle weathering on the Type 2 ought to show up in other photos .............. but, of course, you'd never get away with that sort of thing on a model !

[stovepipe]

I'm familar with this photo but I've been too distracted by it's rarity, to have looked at the locos properly before.

 

The Sulzer type 2 is from the 25 loco batch of 25/0s allocated to the North East at this time. I have a picture of D5152 from around 1967 with very similar staining on the side, but there are also some differences. On 'my' photo the lower stripe appears to have recently been overpainted in green, and the cab front has been recently re-painted with a new yellow end with square corners, whereas this photo seems to have a round-cornered yellow panel.

 

Another candidate could well be D5162, which had similar staining in October 1967 and round cornered warning panel. https://flic.kr/p/24QeCXu

 

The Brush type 4 is fitted with Serck radiators, which narrows it down to 1 of the 212 locos built from new in two tone green (!)..... The ECML allocated ones were D1100-1111, 1968-1999.

 

The Newton Chambers Car Carriers went blue in early 1967, the coaches seem to be carrying destination boards - I've not seen that before. In 1967 the daytime Caledonian Road - Perth service (not named in the WTT from this point on) ran every day but Tuesdays, 19 May to 16 September, formed of 10 coaches. In 1968 it ran with 11 coaches, so it is looking like a 1967 photo, like this one.

 

https://flic.kr/p/zYXjax

 

Edit:

 

Looks like D5154 might be another candidate.

 

https://flic.kr/p/AAbJFV

Edited September 24, 2018 by stovepipe

[Trev52A]

@ stovepipe: An update - and part of the mystery solved!

 

I've been going through all my 35mm negs shot at Low Fell in 1967 (I ignored 1968, as per your suggestion in post #7 of the likely year) to see if I could match up the sprocket holes with those of the previous neg, and it fits perfectly with a view of K1 No 62007 taken on 2nd August that year. The 'Car Carrier' was the last shot on that roll of film and the two had actually slightly overlapped, so there is no mistaking the join. So 2nd August 1967 it is.

 

Your other suggestion of the Type 2 being D5154 seems quite likely if I compare my pic side by side with the one from the KDH Archive on the Flickr site which you linked to.

 

Many thanks for pointing me in the right direction - only the Brush type 4 to identify now. Still can't understand why the working did not feature in my notes taken that day!

 

Regards

Trevor

Edited December 20, 2018 by Trev52A

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

Your other suggestion of the Type 2 being D5154 seems quite likely if I compare my pic side by side with the one from the KDH Archive on the Flickr site which you linked to.

 

Excepting that to my eyes the overhead warning flash appears to be on the opposite side of the steps up to the water filler point. It could have been moved I suppose!

[Trev52A]

@ 60021

 

Strewth! You're right. So it's back to square one, then, as far as identification goes.

Unless the overhead warning flash has been moved (unlikely), it looks like the prominent weathering/staining in that position on the bodywork was more common on these locos than I had realised.

 

Cheers

Trevor

[stovepipe]

That IS a good spot.....not many were like that it seems, D5159 or D5175 perhaps?

[keefer]

Resurrecting this due to the link from another thread, derbysulzers has pics of D5159 in 1967 with its experimental orange warning panel - which it carried from at least April 1967 - spring 1968

Edited May 12, 2020 by keefer