Transportable baseboard size

[Harlequin]

Purely hypothetically, if you were building a multi-baseboard layout that had to be transportable what would you consider to be the ideal size and type of baseboard module?

 

The compromise revolves around the need to minimise the number of joints between modules and maximise the area on plan for scenery and track work while ensuring that individual modules can be realistically and safely man-handled.

 

Rules:

• Assume three or more modules make up the layout.
• The size of any transporting vehicle is not an issue.
• The size of any apertures the modules might have to pass through is not an issue.
• Each board has to be safely movable by one reasonably fit person alone. That probably means it must weigh less that 25 Kilos.
• It must be possible for one reasonably fit person to lift each board up to display height, up to 1.2m or 4ft above floor level.
• Special apparatus, techniques or tools for moving, raising and handling are allowed.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Harlequin

[johnb]

Individual boards able to be moved safely by one person would in my opinion be no bigger than 4ft x 1ft6ins (translates to 1200mm x 450mm). Anything much larger become unwieldy and risks damage to unprotected scenery.

 

John

[RedgateModels]

well I can get the three 4x2' boards of Summat Colliery into the back of my Scooby by myself with the aid of a sack trolley ......

[MartinWales]

Same here.....4x4'x1'6" boards into the back of an Octavia estate, again with sack truck...see 'Kinmundy' thread

[RedgateModels]

Same here.....4x4'x1'6" boards into the back of an Octavia estate, again with sack truck...see 'Kinmundy' thread

 

Estate? pah!

 

 

This is actually the first of three identical coloured scoobies I have owned. The current WRX has not had the pleasure of a layout yet although Fourgig East will be in it for Mansfield 2019

[PatB]

Not more than 4 x 2. And I'm a big bloke with long arms, so the previously mentioned 4 x 1'6" is probably more sensible.

 

Of equal importance are weight and rigidity, so I'd rule out MDF or chipboard construction. I like a deep plywood structure meself.

[Nearholmer]

There is more to cumbersomeness than weight, and my feeling is that the ideal, which is what you asked for, would be no bigger or heavier than a medium-sized suitcase. Having just run a tape over one, that seems to be something around 900x300x450, and I think c20kg to avoid trouble.

 

Very long evolution has settled the sensible one-person suitcase around these figures for good reasons. increasing the length to 1000 doesn't compromise carry ability, but adding very much to width or depth does.

 

Of course, bigger and heavier are possible, especially with the addition of wheels, and we have a "wardrobe on wheels" suitcase that is bigger (too big) and heavier when full (stupidly so), and although it is without doubt transportable, so is an ISO container. It isn't what I would call portable.

 

So, I think that for really good, ideal, portability we end up almost exactly where C J Freezer got to with the same question in about 1955, for the simple reason that it is an ergonomic question, so the answer is determined by the size and strength of people. The distance from hand to floor, with arm in suitcase-holding position is a key one, and at my height (c1800) it is only 670, so subtracting 50 for the handle, and 100 for ground clearance to avoid snagging on things, maximum 'load height' =520. The oft-cited 610 is really too wide for a comfortable 'suitcase carry' except for quite tall people.

 

If we went for something that was "just about transportable by one person", and didn't have to worry about doors, steps, stairs etc, then I would suggest what amounts to "a box with integral sack barrow", probably about 1500x600x450, although it would need clever design using portable ramps, "stretcher legs", and possibly small castors on the not-barrow-wheel end, to allow sensible handling in and out of a vehicle.

 

A close look at an ambulance stretcher, especially the type that can be wheeled like a sack-barrow in one mode, might be a good place to start for such a "maximum volume", rather than ideal, module.

 

And, a chat with a "roady crew" for a band, because they do this stuff all the time.

 

Incidentally, my current portable layout folds to form a box c1200x400x400, weighing near 20kg, and it is a bit of a PIA to handle, because it doesn't have a handle to allow it to to be carried like a suitcase. I will remedy that before its next outing.

 

And, I scrapped a really good layout that had three baseboards (light plywood 'egg crate') 1500x500x400, because it was a right annoying thing to handle in and out of the car and venues due to cumbersomeness. Taught me a lot!

Edited October 23, 2018 by Nearholmer

[peach james]

Not bigger than 2x4'.  Unless you are going to have a 2nd to lift with you, in which case, 3x6' is workable.  It's not the overall weight that is hard, but the size of the things, and the lever arm effects.  

 

Long Marton is 3x6' sections, and my wife and I can manage sections easy enough.  (it's sectional, not really modular...)  When I go to move them around on my own, it is a huge problem.  It's never been to a show, and probably never will go, but it is sectional, and I can/have moved sections around enough in the house- right now it's split so I can work on the "far" side scenery.  In order to move it more than once I would have to get a trailer setup for it to move in.  Otherwise, cube van rental.

 

Our club layout was 2x4', and I could manage them bolted double, but I was a bit younger, and a lot stronger 2 years ago...  The new layout is also 2x4's, I am doubtful I want to manage them doubled on my own, but they are easy enough single on my own.  A lot comes down to carrying handles/attachment points, as a 4' board lifted from one end has a wacking great lever arm, and the scenery doesn't generally like that much flex.  The current layout will just fit into a NA station wagon, or easily into the back of my van.  The old club layout (8x24') would just fit into my van with a row of seats out (so 6'x4'x4' cargo space ), with stock boxes on the other row of seats.  

 

James

[Ian Kirk]

On the strength of having successfully transported my " O gauge in a small space" demonstration layout Thrift Drift,  6ft by 2ft by 1ft 3 (with the backscene folded down) in the back of a hatchback insignia and handled it on it's built in wheels and rope handle ( moves like a sack barrow) I am currently working on two 6ft by 2fts giving a 12 ft layout hinged in the middle.  Actually CJ F's Minories in O gauge. This too will get wheels/handle.

At my age I don't want to struggle with anything too heavy or awkward but was pleasantly surprised with moving "Thrift Drift" .When lifting into car or onto table you are only lifting one end at a time so only half the weight and at home it stands on end against a wall like a wardrobe. Otherwise I would agree that for "ordinary" separate modules the optimum size must be around 4 X 2. 

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[arran]

Wimps the lot of you .

 

Regards Arran

[The Johnster]

Are you trying to tell us you got a 31 in the boot of a scooby?  And then forgot the HMRS transfers?

 

My old club standardised on 2'x 4' plywood with 6" deep side frames, single cross piece in the middle.  These needed a two man lift, and bolted together top to top for transport with plywood end plates, 2'x 2' IIRC, which protected the layout but was very definitely a 2 man lift.  Don't forget that the modelling on top will weigh a fair bit as well and need careful handling.

[RedgateModels]

Are you trying to tell us you got a 31 in the boot of a scooby?

Nope, in the back

 

Here's Fourgig East ready for a show, that's O Gauge...

 

 

OK, the fiddle yard/shed board fits in the boot

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by RedgateModels

[Jub45565]

One of the interesting parts about exhibiting is seeing how different people go about their setups, and how long different methods take to set up/break down.

 

There is a trend, which I like, for the 'railway in a landscape' type layouts (which naturally need more room, so have all the landscape around the railway...) to have the railway itself on a solid spine, with the scenic sections in front and/or behind on separate drop in sections. This breaks up the board joint from being straight across the layout, but also makes things more manageable. As has been said above, I agree that in the main a 2 foot wide board is about the limit to easy manouvering.

[Nearholmer]

Can the ‘special apparatus’ that is permitted include a large helium balloon, of better still an airship? I’m imagining floating the layout into position.

 

Actually, an inflatable layout might be interesting, or one assembled using a tent-like structure, with only the trackbed ‘tiles’ rigid.

 

More sensibly, 20kg of styrofoam is a pretty large volume.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

Now, I'm not suggesting this particular item, its massively over-specified for our purpose, too heavy, and rather expensive, but the basic idea, a strong aluminium "ladder", with a plywood top, certainly has merits in terms of lightness and rigidity.

 

https://www.youngmanboards.co.uk/youngman-576366-superboard-36m-16-p.asp

[bbishop]

I'm comfortable handling 4ft x 2ft 8in. I can carry one and transport a pair bolted together on a sack truck. My trick is a setterupperer. This is a 3ft "T" shape (a plank topped by a piece of plywood) that is locked into the workmate so that it is a fraction lower than the layout height. This balances one end of a board whilst the other end is located with the previous board. By the way - setterupperer has five syllables.

 

Bill

[PatB]

A very long time ago, Dad and I had an O gauge industrial layout, built on 3 boards we inherited via the Somerset O Gauge Group. The boards were, from memory, each about 4 x 2 and built with a pine (sorta) L-girder construction, with solid tops of what might have been something like Sundeala. Certainly a fibreboard that was fluffier than MDF, harder than insulation board, less brittle than hardboard and was definitely not chipboard. They were not light.

 

We transported them by bolting them together into a block, with end spacers, which fitted nicely into our Morris 1000 Van based trailer. Whilst we did manage to carry this block around between us, we were both pretty strong in those days. I wouldn't even contemplate doing the same now.

[Clive Mortimore]

Simple answer to the question is, no bigger than the space in the vehicle you intend to transport it in and no heavier than you can carry. Remember parking for the exhibitors might be close to the back door of the show hall, you may be one the last to arrive so furthest from the door and right over the other side of the hall so not too heavy.

 

If you are to have a sack barrow, don't forget that takes up space in the transport. And also remember stock boxes, items you take off the layout (large buildings etc), lighting rigs, control panel or DCC gizmo boxes, overnight bag (two day shows) and any other people who you are taking with you need space as well as baseboards.

[RedgateModels]

Have to agree Clive. As you can see the fiddle yard/shed board for Fourgig was built to fit in the boot. I made a cardboard mock-up to test the fit before I cut ply. It is a bit too tight though as I forgot the toggle catches and the end scenic boards have added a few more mm on the width.

 

So speaking as an exhibition manager please make sure your layout fits in your available transport - and still does when you change vehicle LOL

 

How many clubs build fantastic layouts without a thought (other than burdening shows with the high cost of van hire) to how they will get them to exhibitions? ......

[RedgateModels]

As for sack trucks I've got something like this:

 

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ladders+%26+Storage/d110/Sack+Trucks/sd3156/Stanley+FT500+Folding+Hand+Truck/p23463

 

takes up very little space, will handle the "big box" of either layout easily and also means that when I am doing a demo at Warley I just walk all my kit in from the public car park in one trip, avoiding all the hassle with the security gestapo

[PaulRhB]

The main restrictions for me are the vehicle and getting it in and out of the flat nowadays. I’ve had boards up to 5ft long but I limit it to 18 inches wide to avoid damaging the walls or boards in the stairwell at home. Previously when I had a layout stored at a friends barn there were two 4x3ft boards on a cradle, due to the size being mostly polystyrene two people easily lifted these 4x3 by 4ft lumps and they were very stable too.

My current layout is 44ft long as it weaves around and packs into 6 boxes, mainly two boards face to face, designed to fit in three cars or one van. Each box is easy to carry on end, using cross braces with the dual purpose of handles, and fits on one of those space saving fold flat sack trucks on the level.

[Harlequin]

Thanks to everyone for the contributions so far.

 

It seems that around 1220*610mm (4ft*2ft) is the general consensus for the surface area of what we might call "carryable" modules.

 

But Jub45565 hit upon one of the issues that prompted me to start the topic: A Railway-in-the-Landscape type layout probably needs wider scenic surface areas than 610mm (at 4mm scale and above). And more generally: fewer modules means fewer joints, less track alignment, fewer electrical connections, less scenic concealment and possibly quicker set up(?). Would those considerations override the "carryable" size or is carryability still king?

 

There does seem to be some scope for larger modules by using aids like wheels. I wonder if sack trucks would still limit modules to the "carryable" size because of the size of the truck itself and the need to lift modules on and off?

 

Balloons are a long shot but let's not dismiss the idea until we've done the maths! ;-)

 

Here's a doodle:

Edited October 24, 2018 by Harlequin

[PaulRhB]

Trolleys with lifts are very bulky As mentioned I have a fold flat sack truck but I also have two homemade trolleys with a flat ply plate approximately 18” square and four 100mm castors. Two are fixed and two swivel. They are very manoeuvrable great for moving boards around the flat without denting the walls and good on paths and even grass with 2-3 boxed boards on top at shows. They are my twist on a piano trolley and much easier than carrying.

[Nearholmer]

A huge amount depends upon the access to the venue.

 

I’m suggesting small, light modules, to maximise the range of venues that you can access, the owners own spare room, study, loft etc often being a challenge in itself.

 

In the unlikely event that our “one person” can guarantee easy, level access at both ends of the trip, the sort of trolley you’ve sketched would be viable, but I strongly suggest that very few venues allow this, even ‘professional exhibition’ venues sometimes having surprisingly awkward loading bay access, and as for the archetypal church/village hall!

[Clive Mortimore]

Have to agree Clive. As you can see the fiddle yard/shed board for Fourgig was built to fit in the boot. I made a cardboard mock-up to test the fit before I cut ply. It is a bit too tight though as I forgot the toggle catches and the end scenic boards have added a few more mm on the width.

 

So speaking as an exhibition manager please make sure your layout fits in your available transport - and still does when you change vehicle LOL

 

How many clubs build fantastic layouts without a thought (other than burdening shows with the high cost of van hire) to how they will get them to exhibitions? ......

Ah! I have experienced this. I was asked if I could attend a show, I said yes as you do. In between times Mrs M, who's car I use to transport the train set, said "Now the kids are grown up I don't need a big car, so I am thinking of downsizing." I let the exhibition manager know, just in case it took place before the show. I had also mentioned that Mrs M was going to get rid of the layout transport and I still had a show booked at my local club. One of my mates said that he was going to be at the same show with another display and he could transport the layout if need be.

 

The exhibition manager came back to me saying his club couldn't afford another X amount in a rather unpleasant e-mail. I had not said how much extra my expenses would be, I didn't know as Mrs M's car was still on the driveway and might still be by the date of the show. His e-mail caught me at a wrong time, so I withdrew the layout. I couldn't be bothered to tell him I had a possible alternative that would have saved his club money. I then scrapped the layout, it was getting near to the end of its life.