Transportable baseboard size

[RedgateModels]

That's why I make sure that I can get my layouts in MY car. SWMBO happens to have a Subaru Legacy Estate that could handle both if needed LOL But one day she may downsize as we don't tow a caravan these days .....

[CloggyDog]

Iain Hunter's roundy-roundy Australian H0 layout Broadford (like his earlier EM layout Maiden Lane)  is based around 3 hollow trolleys of around 4' length x 2' width x 4' high. The top surface comprises a scenic board (1 off) and the outer fiddle traversers (2 off) with the other scenic boards, middle fiddle board, stock shelf, lighting gantry, set-up/break down kit, etc all packed and secured within each trolley on internediate shelves or supports. A simple ply box protects the top scenic boards. 4 large castors underneath each allow the trolleys to be wheeled around and loaded (via a simple ramp*) into a Luton-sized van. The many, many stock boxes sit on a simple low trolley, strapped into place.

 

Arriving at a show, the 3 trolleys are roughly positioned, then the joining scenic, fiddle and curved end boards are attached and connected up. Overall layout size is around 24' x 8' Set-up is around 2 hours (including stock and testing), break-down around 90 minutes or just under.

 

*The trolleys are just liftable by 2 blokes - before the ramp was made, they were lifted in and out of the van. 

[Harlequin]

Maybe I should add another "Rule":

• SWMBO is not an issue

Edited October 24, 2018 by Harlequin

[Nearholmer]

I thought that the initial "rules" didn't quite reflect the common constraints that affect exhibiting a layout, now ..........

[Joseph_Pestell]

Maybe I should add another "Rule":

• SWMBO is not an issue

 

Yours must be very different from mine.

[Andy Hayter]

 

Purely hypothetically, if you were building a multi-baseboard layout that had to be transportable what would you consider to be the ideal size and type of baseboard module?

 

The compromise revolves around the need to minimise the number of joints between modules and maximise the area on plan for scenery and track work while ensuring that individual modules can be realistically and safely man-handled.

 

Rules:

• Assume three or more modules make up the layout.
• The size of any transporting vehicle is not an issue.
• The size of any apertures the modules might have to pass through is not an issue.
• Each board has to be safely movable by one reasonably fit person alone. That probably means it must weigh less that 25 Kilos.
• It must be possible for one reasonably fit person to lift each board up to display height, up to 1.2m or 4ft above floor level.
• Special apparatus, techniques or tools for moving, raising and handling are allowed.

 

 

Many good points made already.

 

2 x 4 is a good size because many pieces of timber come in that size (or metric equivalent) so no cutting or joining is needed.

 

However, I think point 4 is misplaced.  To safely transport multiple boards the majority of us put two boards face to face and held appart by some sort of frame or end boards.  This makes a manageable 2x4 board too heavy when two have to lifted at the same time.  You could of course break down/make up the framing in the back of the vehicle, but I can assure you this is not fun (nor good for the layout) in a blizzard in the dark during December (other miserable months are equally available).

 

So I would suggest you need to find a companion to help, or arrange for assistance at the exhibition venue.  Most clubs will be more than happy to help.  It then removes this constraint.

 

Re: building boards to fit in the car, I would suggest some caution again.  My boards are 4ft 10inches long* (friendly woodyard with full sized sheets who cut to order at no cost) and were designed to fit in the car.  Since then the car has been changed several times and the boards no longer fit.

 

* A single board can be handled by one person, but see comments above.  

[Penlan]

Penlan is on 3' x 2' MDF boards x various heights, probably 10" average. 
The boards on average weigh 13Kgs.  I can lift and manouver them by myself, if required.
I added some scenic extra depth to 2 boards, result 3' x 2.5', they are a B*gger to move by myself.

The boards clip face to face with end boards to keep the sections separate when they were transported for exhibitions.
Obviously  two boards require two people to move them, or a sack trolly (pneumatic tyres).

Edited October 24, 2018 by Penlan

[RedgateModels]

 

Since then the car has been changed several times and the boards no longer fit.

 

That's just poor vehicle choice

 

In all honesty, I will never buy a car that can't get my 4x2x10" box either on the back seat or boot/load area

[Vecchio]

The majority already said 4x2, I agree (even I would see it as 1200x600mm   ) . At the moment you would like to turn around at the end of your layout 4x4 is necessary and with that the choice of cars is dramatically reduced. But - nothing is impossible in life.

 

In Italy I went to exhibitions with a 2400x1200 layout which had also an equal size hidden part below. It was not planned to use this for exhibitions, but the local club president organised the transport. A 7ton truck with 3 people to help lifting the baby into the lorry.

 

The complete layout consisted of 7 modules, all the others were 4x2 with the end module 4x4

Will link a photo later.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Vecchio

[Nearholmer]

I will repeat my lack-of-convinced-ness about the 1220x610 (4ft x 2ft) baseboard as the ideal for one person portability.

 

Please measure your personal "suitcase carry grip" height, then subtract 50 (2 ins) for the handle, and another 100 (4 ins) for ground clearance, which is especially important at steps, and I'll wager that for 90%+ of people the answer is significantly less than 610 (2ft).

 

Yes, this famous width is carry-able, but it is popular not because it is ideal, but because it saves sawing, which makes your arm ache once, which is false economy, because it will make your arm ache every time you carry it.

 

Be kind to your arm in the long run: saw!

Edited October 24, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Dunsignalling]

Many good points made already.

 

2 x 4 is a good size because many pieces of timber come in that size (or metric equivalent) so no cutting or joining is needed.

 

However, I think point 4 is misplaced.  To safely transport multiple boards the majority of us put two boards face to face and held appart by some sort of frame or end boards.  This makes a manageable 2x4 board too heavy when two have to lifted at the same time.  You could of course break down/make up the framing in the back of the vehicle, but I can assure you this is not fun (nor good for the layout) in a blizzard in the dark during December (other miserable months are equally available).

 

So I would suggest you need to find a companion to help, or arrange for assistance at the exhibition venue.  Most clubs will be more than happy to help.  It then removes this constraint.

 

Re: building boards to fit in the car, I would suggest some caution again.  My boards are 4ft 10inches long* (friendly woodyard with full sized sheets who cut to order at no cost) and were designed to fit in the car.  Since then the car has been changed several times and the boards no longer fit.

 

* A single board can be handled by one person, but see comments above.  

Paired boards with end plates are definitely the way to go for the safety of the layout and backscenes can be made quite substantial and permanently fixed in place giving even more protection. You can fit wheels to one end board and a handle to the other if you make them stout enough and there's enough room in the car.

 

Best not to make anything too big to pass through a standard domestic doorway, though.

 

However, the resulting mass really precludes one-person handling unless you are young and fit so recruiting a team-mate is a good idea. Helps keep you awake/lets you share the driving on the long ride home, too. 

 

Size-wise 4' is a good length to standardise on, ensuring economical use of sheet material and will fit all but really small cars. My Peugeot 207SW would take a 5' load lengthwise so long as the front seats weren't too far back. I haven't yet measured it, but its replacement, a Skoda Yeti, looks a bit shorter (though wider) and the squarer tail should allow higher stacking. 

 

One useful tip is to get/make a top-box to carry the support structure. You'll usually want it out first (and in last at close of play) and that's a lot easier if it all doesn't have to get squeezed in under/around the layout itself.  

 

John

Edited October 24, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Oldddudders]

4' x 4'. 60 mm thick extruded polystyrene baseboard with a simple 25 x 25 mm frame base which it hardly needs. I am not strong, 70 next month and can lift it with one hand, although that isn't advisable if there's a breeze!. 

[Ian Morgan]

My model of Freshwater is on a 5'x1'6" board, to fit the complete station. However, the lighting gantry forms a box lid for transport and with two big handles on top, I can just manage to man-handle it myself without too much damage to me or the layout. It is easier to negotiate doors and corridors with two though.

[peach james]

But I don't carry the boards like a suitcase- they go held 2' across & 4' long when I have to move one at a time, or 2 stacked with 2 of us, 4' between us, 2' wide.  Which fits through a 30" door... (or, if you like substitute 1.2m, .6m, .8m).  What I don't like doing, but could do the last time I tried, is to pick up the boards single at 4' long and lift them so they are straight.  The strain on the framework is fairly substantial when you have to do it from the end boards.  I tend to use 16mm ply, the club uses 12mm, for constructing the shell of the layout.  I find the 12mm ones lack structural rigidity when treated with somewhat less than respect.  Long Marton 3.0 scenic sections would be too heavy to lift from one end by me.  (or at least, I've never been dumb determined enough to try it !), but I have done it more than once for 2x4' modules.  Hanging them off my arms, yes, a 2' board would be a bit wide for easy managing.  And yes, I know I'm _still_ one of the young 'uns...

 

I'd add to the transport debate, that here in North America, most vans & pickups have 49" clear between the wheel wells if full sized.  Just enough for flush fitted 1/4" sides on 2' baseboards to sit 2 abrest.  It is useful to measure first, as for example, my trailer is about 1/4" short of 10' internal, and I had to lop off the ends of the 10' timbers used under Bricknell (the old BRMoV layout) to make them fit.

 

James

[Vecchio]

I will repeat my lack-of-convinced-ness about the 1220x610 (4ft x 2ft) baseboard as the ideal for one person portability.

 

Please measure your personal "suitcase carry grip" height, then subtract 50 (2 ins) for the handle, and another 100 (4 ins) for ground clearance, which is especially important at steps, and I'll wager that for 90%+ of people the answer is significantly less than 610 (2ft).

 

Yes, this famous width is carry-able, but it is popular not because it is ideal, but because it saves sawing, which makes your arm ache once, which is false economy, because it will make your arm ache every time you carry it.

 

Be kind to your arm in the long run: saw!

Kevin,

 

 

I agree if you carry the board over long distances. But normally you can park close to the exhibition room so it is not such a threat to carry a larger size board. And there are another 2 things to point out: First: build as light as possible. I use poplar ply, this doesn't weigh a lot. Second: I like a depth of 2 feet as it gives you more space to get some landscape on it. If the boards are very narrow you will have track only - and then we go into direction early Marklin etc. (which has also his fans, but I like to have some scenery on my boards). 

[Nearholmer]

James,

 

I’m trying to answer the ‘homework question’, which is about an ideal.

 

One thing I am impressed/amazed by is the thickness of the ply you’re using. 16mm thick ply is serious stuff! I’d expect to be able to build a layout board using it, and not have any noticeable flexing, not that I would, because it would “weigh a ton”.

 

Vecchio

 

Scenery? That’s just green stuff that wastes space that could be covered with track, isn’t it? ;-)

 

Kevin

Edited October 24, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Clive Mortimore]

Paired boards with end plates are definitely the way to go for the safety of the layout and backscenes can be made quite substantial and permanently fixed in place giving even more protection. You can fit wheels to one end board and a handle to the other if you make them stout enough and there's enough room in the car.

 

Best not to make anything too big to pass through a standard domestic doorway, though.

 

However, the resulting mass really precludes one-person handling unless you are young and fit so recruiting a team-mate is a good idea. Helps keep you awake/lets you share the driving on the long ride home, too. 

 

Size-wise 4' is a good length to standardise on, ensuring economical use of sheet material and will fit all but really small cars. My Peugeot 207SW would take a 5' load lengthwise so long as the front seats weren't too far back. I haven't yet measured it, but its replacement, a Skoda Yeti, looks a bit shorter (though wider) and the squarer tail should allow higher stacking. 

 

One useful tip is to get/make a top-box to carry the support structure. You'll usually want it out first (and in last at close of play) and that's a lot easier if it all doesn't have to get squeezed in under/around the layout itself.  

 

John

Ah! John

 

At one show where the loading has to be done in some sort of order owing to limited loading space, I gave my car keys to my mate as the rest of packed the layout up. We had packed up as he arrived in the loading bay, well done I thought. We filled the car up, as I went to close the back door the baseboard was sticking out too far. It fitted on the way to the show so why didn't fit to go home. My mate is taller, and therefore has longer legs. He had moved the seat back. It took us about five minutes to figure out what had happened.

[PaulRhB]

So the only real guides are:

Get it in and out the house.

Get it into the car.

Get into the venue.

And vice versa

As long as you have clearances and sufficient help of the human or mechanical nature you can build it to your situation

 

Oh and if you change the car measure the boot!

[Harlequin]

So the only real guides are:

Get it in and out the house.

Get it into the car.

Get into the venue.

And vice versa

As long as you have clearances and sufficient help of the human or mechanical nature you can build it to your situation

 

Oh and if you change the car measure the boot!

 

The question behind the guidelines set out in Post #1 is this: How to minimise the number of modules in a large layout so that they can still be sensibly transported and erected by a single person.

[Andy Hayter]

That's just poor vehicle choice

 

In all honesty, I will never buy a car that can't get my 4x2x10" box either on the back seat or boot/load area

 

  I tend to agree, If only I had known that when I built the boards, almost the entire mid-market industry would switch 2 years later from flat back estates to raked backs (aka fairly big hatch backs) I might have avoided the problems.

 

But that really is the point I am trying to make.  Making a layout to just fit the car (aka optimised loading) might lead to problems.  who knows where electric cars will lead us regarding internal dimensions?  In 5 years time will 3 off 2 x 4 be too big for many cars??.

[PaulRhB]

The question behind the guidelines set out in Post #1 is this: How to minimise the number of modules in a large layout so that they can still be sensibly transported and erected by a single person.

Well the size still isn’t fixed as if you build light boards they can be surprisingly large if you use trolleys and have flat access at home. Most venues do have flat access but you can arrive and find steps so I’d still think about carrying with two people as you might need to borrow a club member to get down steps if you’ve planned to use a trolley. Wether it’s cutting carrying handles into both endplates or a suitable block on the frame.

I could load my old Swiss layout myself but has to put the frame in first then the boards individually, or as a whole unit if a mate was free.

All I’m saying is the home end may restrict you the most for manpower but you don’t necessarily need to design for the worst case scenario at the show end of the trip too.

The restrictions I now have mean a 1ft 8in square box up to 4ft long is now my ideal max size and easy to carry down the stairs without damage to it or the walls. When I had the ground level storage though 4x3ft boards were fine as they were a strong frame supporting a large polystyrene block. Subtle variations in storage have made a big difference.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Oh dear, mine are 5' x 1'4"...…………

 

In the days when I had an estate car.

[Hobby]

I wouldn't worry, all mine are 3ft! 

 

I don't understand this fixation with 4x2 (or metric equivalent), when I looked at baseboard size for transport to exhibitions I looked at the width between suspension turrets in the boot of medium sized cars (the ones i was most likely to get) and they were all around 1000mm give or take. As I don't want to drop the rear seats as I have other stuff and passenegers to carry all by boards were made to fit in the boot. I can carry and 12ft long set of baords (3x2 to 3x2.5) no problems but give me a 4 ft long board and I'll have to either drop the rear seat backs or put it on the back seet, either of which is a non-starter.

 

So my answer to the question is to look as someone said earlier:

 

"Get it in and out the house.
Get it into the car. 
Get into the venue."

 

I'd also add "Suits the layout you are building" to that list.

 

 

4x2 is not the ideal but just some sort of "standard" measurement which has developed into some sort of "law", but it isn't. You should do what suits you personally. I prefer a board which is wider than 2ft for a start!

[bbishop]

2ft 8in equals two cuts from an 8ft x 4ft sheet of ply.

 

Bill

[Hobby]

I can get plywood in 6ft lengths, the local DIY already cut them into 4x2, 4x4, 6x2 and 6x4 so 3ft length is not an issue. I just get them to cut them into 3/4/6/8 inch widths 6 ft long for whatever I am doing. I'm not a slave to multiples of 2ft which seems the main reason for the 4x2 measurement and the cost of the wood is only a minor part of the cost of the layout overall.