Chip query re - ZIMO MX600R & DC running

[john new]

As included in this post about my own layout I have a query about the ZIMO MX600R chip and DC running.

 

As a recent convert to DCC my pre-purchase research led me to understand that running a DCC chipped loco on analogue 12v DC was OK if the chip option is set to permit it. However, in the supplied notes on the ZIMO MX600R chip against running on DC/analogue it states not recommended. The notes for the DCD ZN8H chip do not have the same warning, is it therefore a chip specific warning for the MX600R or is analogue running of DCC stock best generally avoided?

 

Several of my older locos are probably not suitable for conversion so dual control options are desirable and currently being wired in.

 

NB I appreciate putting DC only locos onto DCC does not go well. Similar lesson learnt over 50 years ago after not appreciating there were two flavours of 3-rail and burning out my HD Atholl on my mate's Trix Twin.

Edited June 6, 2019 by john new
Typos corrected

[jpendle]

I use Zimo decoders in my N Gauge stock and I have never seen any supplied notes from Zimo other than those detailing the pin out of the connector.

 

I have also been told that modern mechanisms and decoders should have no problems running with a DC power supply.

 

Unless of course DC running has been turned off in CV29.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[beejack]

Just looked at the Zimo manual for the MX600-638 (which includes the MX600R) and couldn't see anything which recommends not running on DC. 

See the section below from the manual on page 16 & 17.  also link at bottom of post to manual. 

This is the 2010 version so may have changed.

 

 

3.5 Analog operation

All ZIMO decoders are capable of operating on conventional layouts with DC power packs, including PWM throttles, in analogue DC as well as in analogue AC (Märklin transformers with high voltage pulse for direction change).

To allow analogue operation CV #29, Bit 2 = 1 must be set. This is usually the case by default (CV #29 = 14, which includes Bit 2 = 1), but analogue operation may be turned off in many sound projects (sound decoders). It is recommended to turn analogue mode off when operating strictly on DCC!

The actual behaviour during analogue operation, however, is strongly influenced by the locomotive controller (power pack). Especially in conjunction with a weak transformer, it is easily possible that the Non-Sound Decoder MX600 - MX638 and Sound Decoder MX640 - MX659 Page 17 track voltage collapses when the decoder (motor) starts to draw power which, in the worst case, may lead to intermittent performance. There are some adjustment possibilities for analogue operation where motor control and function outputs are concerned; these CV’s can of course be read-out or programmed only with a DCC system or other programming device.

 

link to manual

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/MX-KleineDecoder_E.pdf

 

Brian

[john new]

Thanks beejack. However, the printed sheet included with the chip has a bulleted list and definitely states not recommended against the DC analogue option. (See 3rd line up from the bottom) This is why as a newbie to DCC I am confused; the information available seems often to conflict.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by john new
Photo(s) found and replaced post crash.

[Pete the Elaner]

Feedback controllers or high frequency track cleaners can damage decoders.

Maybe Zimo feel that it is easier simply to recommend not running on DC than go into too much detail?

 

Decoders are normally fine with a smooth DC. They sometimes improve performance over a non-fitted loco.

[jpendle]

It looks like that printed sheet originated with Zimo's UK distributor Rail Exclusive, NOT with Zimo Austria.

 

I would give the distributor a call and ask them directly why running on DC is not recommended.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[john new]

7 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Feedback controllers or high frequency track cleaners can damage decoders.

Maybe Zimo feel that it is easier simply to recommend not running on DC than go into too much detail?

 

Decoders are normally fine with a smooth DC. They sometimes improve performance over a non-fitted loco.

Not being an electronics person, what type of controller is a Gaugemaster Combi? That will be the DC option for the current layout. The Gaugemaster notes at http://www.gaugemaster.com/instructions/GaugemasterLeaflets/GM9950GMAnalogueControlLeaflet.pdf don't say. 

 

RELCO etc not used.

Edited June 6, 2019 by john new

[Pete the Elaner]

Gaugemaster make 3 ranges of controllers.

 

Those with a cream coloured front panel are 'plain' DC & safe to use with a DCC logo.

Those with a black panel are feedback. It is these which DCC locos do not like.

They also do a series with a red front panel. I do not know what the significance of this is. Maybe higher current for larger scales? I have asked several times on here but never got an answer.

 

I believe the Combi has a cream front, which makes it safe to use with a chipped loco running on DC.

[WIMorrison]

I have a Gaugemaster Combi that I use when cleaning the wheels of my DCC chipped locos, some of which have Zimo chips (not bought from Rail Exclusive) and the locos work perfectly without any complaint.

 

I also leave DC enabled on all of my locos irrespective of the maker and don't have any issues.

[john new]

Thanks all for the responses. I will proceed with the DC enabled option and assume the packaging note is a get out clause by Rail Exclusive regarding things like hi-frequency rail cleaners damaging the chips.

 

Pete the E, your response especially useful as I have other Gaugemasters too and all are cream fronted. That is useful info for adding DCC options into future layouts too.