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Imaginary Locomotives


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I'm sure I somewhere once saw an outline diagram of a proposed Peppercorn 4-8-2. Anybody attempted that leviathan?

Could mock up a Western equivalent...

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I'm sure I somewhere once saw an outline diagram of a proposed Peppercorn 4-8-2. Anybody attempted that leviathan?

It was a Gresley locomotive (I think that's the one you mean...), and would sir like it Streamlined or Unstreamlined?

(By Graeme King of this and the LNER parish)

http://www.lner.info/forums/download/file.php?id=15242&mode=view (By 2002EarlMarschal of the LNER parish)

 

Other models have been built of the Gresley one, and I know I knocked together a mock-up a Peppercorn I1 with the Hornby Tornado picure:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/36691-lner-peppercorn-i1-4-8-2-60610

 

And Matthew has done this one of it, in BR Express Blue

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/26187-peppercorns-magnum-opus-the-m1/

 

Some discussion here:

http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1230

Edited by 69843
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Next it'll be the Churchward version of a Big Boy

:fie: 

 

 

On a serious note, don't think the software will allow it! (Only allows conventional locomotives wheelbases  :angry: )

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There seems to have been plans by the genius/lunatic (delete as appropriate!) that was Oliver Bullied for a whole family of locos based on the Q1 including tank locos and a 4-6-2 Pacific!!!! The drawings do exist, and Hornby Q1s can be picked up reasonably cheaply if you are not too fussy about condition at the moment...

 

Hmmmm.....u

Edited by John M Upton
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Guest Isambarduk

Nicer :-)  The 'old' one (0-8-0PT) could still do with some safety valves, though!   David

Edited by Isambarduk
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I've always been interested in the NE railway electrification scheme. My suggestion for a pre grouping electric freight locomotive would be a double articulated Bo-Bo-Bo-Bo equipped for both 3 rail and overhead collection. The pantograph(s) would be carried on the centre unit which would be articulated to the centre two bogies, all four bogies would be fitted with shoe beams. The outer units would be similar to the 1922 Metropolitan Metro-Vick Bo-Bo locomotives without of course the second cab and articulated to the centre bogies.

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By chance today I happened on the writing I was trying to recollect earlier about 4-8-2's.

It's in 'Thompson and Peppercorn Locomotive Engineers' by Col H Rogers:

 

'It is worth considering what would have happened in the LNER locomotive world if there had been no Nationalisation. JF Harrison would, of course, have  succeeded Peppercorn as CME……...

……The locomotive that Harrison would have designed would have been a 4-8-2 with a round top boiler pressed at 275 psi, three cylinders 21in by 26 in stroke, driving wheels 6ft 4 in diameter, Caprotti valve gear ( independent to each cylinder), automatic stoker, single shot lubrication wherever possible and a corridor tender…….

…..Harrison's three cylinder simple would have been a stage towards a much more revolutionary engine….another 4-8-2 but this would have been a four cylinder compound with the high pressure of 400 psi and a water tube firebox…..There is every possibility that Harrison's proposed compound would have developed more drawbar power than the 'Deltic' diesels.'

 

What a beast that would have been!

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Well I might as well share more ideas. So there was a proposed Passenger Garret by Beyer Peacock to the LMSR, it of course was shot down when the 'Fowlerized' Garrets flopped. There were in fact numerous proposals by BP for new designs, including an idea to rebuild the compounds as 4-4-2+2-2-4 Garrets, though that could just have been Peacock giving up on subtlety. Either way they never got the chance to correct the mistakes. However lets dodge the depressing reality for the comforting fantasy, oldest habits and all that. Lets assume for a minute that B.P is allowed to do its thing and the Garretts are highly successful. So successful in fact that it convinces the management of the merits of Big Engines, but the Newspapers are too busy interviewing the first pig to reach mach 2 to point out any flaws, so the LMSR is promedly Garrattized. Stanier arrives on cue, but after a bit of reboiling, gets bored and heads back to the GWR, narrowly beating Collett to the post, Collett then fires his running coach. With the LMSR focusing on maximizing train load and not speed, Gresley is able to build his eight coupled giants, P1s go on to be a tremendous success as do the P2s.

 

Meanwhile both Stalin and Hitler die after challenging each other to a duel, the globe is shocked by the sudden transformation of both the USSR and the Third Reich into functioning Multiparty democracies. Germany apologies to Poland for being a terrible neighbour and for stealing the last after eight, Russia likewise Finland. The Europeans realize that their rather nasty to one and other and resolve to stop these silly tiffs, France declares her undying love for the United Kingdom and the latter responds 'I've never had the heart', the two make mad-passionate political and economic union together, Ireland gets in on the act as well. world peace is declared, chocolate cake and tea for all, Humanity unites and colonizes the Moon and Mars by means of the London and Lunar Space Railway, the motive power being nuclear powered FTL garretts in 30s styling.

 

Yours

ScR               

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I've added some "mod-cons" such as westy-house pumps and air tanks, headlights, a giesl ejector, mini-snowploughs, modified cab and tender to be enclosed and roller bearings etc etc.

 

 

Better than towing an ETHEL. :jester:

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Well I might as well share more ideas. So there was a proposed Passenger Garret by Beyer Peacock to the LMSR, it of course was shot down when the 'Fowlerized' Garrets flopped. There were in fact numerous proposals by BP for new designs, including an idea to rebuild the compounds as 4-4-2+2-2-4 Garrets, though that could just have been Peacock giving up on subtlety. Either way they never got the chance to correct the mistakes. However lets dodge the depressing reality for the comforting fantasy, oldest habits and all that. Lets assume for a minute that B.P is allowed to do its thing and the Garretts are highly successful. So successful in fact that it convinces the management of the merits of Big Engines, but the Newspapers are too busy interviewing the first pig to reach mach 2 to point out any flaws, so the LMSR is promedly Garrattized. Stanier arrives on cue, but after a bit of reboiling, gets bored and heads back to the GWR, narrowly beating Collett to the post, Collett then fires his running coach. With the LMSR focusing on maximizing train load and not speed, Gresley is able to build his eight coupled giants, P1s go on to be a tremendous success as do the P2s.

 

Meanwhile both Stalin and Hitler die after challenging each other to a duel, the globe is shocked by the sudden transformation of both the USSR and the Third Reich into functioning Multiparty democracies. Germany apologies to Poland for being a terrible neighbour and for stealing the last after eight, Russia likewise Finland. The Europeans realize that their rather nasty to one and other and resolve to stop these silly tiffs, France declares her undying love for the United Kingdom and the latter responds 'I've never had the heart', the two make mad-passionate political and economic union together, Ireland gets in on the act as well. world peace is declared, chocolate cake and tea for all, Humanity unites and colonizes the Moon and Mars by means of the London and Lunar Space Railway, the motive power being nuclear powered FTL garretts in 30s styling.

 

Yours

ScR               

I'll have a pint of what you're on!

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I forgot to add the rest from the Thompson/Peppercorn book that although Harrison didn't get the chance to built his massive East Coast monster he did get to build Duke Of Gloucester later at Derby and incorporate many of his ideas therein with Riddles' blessing. Apart from the Kylchap chimney of course (since rectified).

So 71000 very much had LNE DNA and apparently had to be fired like an A4 and not like a Duchess which was the state of affairs on the West Coast. This is where it's dodgy reputation started to come from. It's been recorded that if it had been tried among the A4's on the ECML it might have been a different story……but we know this now fortunately!

Thenabouts though of course came the first Deltic which changed everything on the Eastern seaboard!

 

 

I've often thought it's a shame that none of the new build projects are a second Duke. 

Edited by Raised On Steam
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Weren't the BR Standard 9F 2-10-0, originally planned to be a 2-8-2 with larger driving wheels? I ask this because one of the other members of the MRC has a model of one... I'll try get a picture next time he brings it to a running night...

Edited by talisman56
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  • 3 weeks later...

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