Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[S.A.C Martin]

Thanks to everyone, particularly Brian - have got them all the right way round now! Aside from the trailing bogies, you can just change the bogies around to the correct orientation, thankfully. I am not looking forward to the cut and shut job for mine, but do it I must for it looks wrong. I am hoping to take delivery of air horns plus piping this week from Replica railways along with some EPB components for my first 4EPB, to start working on the 4VEP to make it look the part more.

 

Gareth (Trains4U) - would it be possible to have a few more pics, particularly closeups, of your conversion of the front end? I am thinking I may do something very similar, if not the same as the front end just doesn't satisfy me.

 

EDIT:

 

Talk about talking me out of my comfort zone...just tried turning the trailing bogies around, you need to cut some material back to allow them to swing with the NEM coupler present at the end which becomes the front, along with the guard irons (I haven't done the steps yet).

 

Frankly, I wouldn't go through this again. Changing a chimney on a Bachmann A1 for a better look is one thing, at least the chimney is in the right place...!

Edited September 23, 2011 by S.A.C Martin

[S.A.C Martin]

I trust my two bogies are now correct, with step placement and the guard irons...?

I am feeling a little defeated by the unit at present. You normally expect some fettling to get something looking right to your eye, but to have to cut about the bogie so extensively to get it right seems a tad ridiculous. I had to chop off the guard irons, conductor rail and step - thankfully, all to some extent extra fitted detail - and replace them on the opposite side to get it orientated the right way.

[Welly]

....I am hoping to take delivery of air horns plus piping this week from Replica railways along with some EPB components for my first 4EPB, to start working on the 4VEP to make it look the part more.

Simon - I have received the Replica airhorns and pipings the other day for my 4 VEP, unfortunately they are even more weedy than the Hornby ones!! I think I'd better try the Southern Pride ones instead. I'm waiting for the roof vents from Dart Castings, I am convinced that the vents are underscale, they are prominent on the real VEPs.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Welly

[Trains4U]

I've put Craftsman white metal horns on mine £2.00 for four (I don't sell them - yet) but you can order them direct from the craftsman website.

 

They are uniform size, rather than different sizes, but to be honest, they look a whole lot better!

 

I've uploaded a couple of vids I took last week with my Mobile phone (Before I put the new horns on)

 

My first foray into Youtube...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4GX_Xt0G9U&NR=1

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ims6p2erUsI&NR=1

 

I do have a decent Video camera, so I'll start practicing with that...

Edited September 24, 2011 by Trains4U

[S.A.C Martin]

Simon - I have received the Replica airhorns and pipings the other day for my 4 VEP, unfortunately they are even more weedy than the Hornby ones!! I think I'd better try the Southern Pride ones instead. I'm waiting for the roof vents from Dart Castings, I am convinced that the vents are underscale, they are prominent on the real VEPs.

 

Hi Welly - are you sure? John Upton's mods earlier in the thread used the same components I've ordered :

 

 

I think that's a significant improvement over the previous airhorns there. We'll see anyway this week when they are delivered!

[Welly]

^^^

Simon - I agree it is a big improvement so I had another look at the moulding and I discovered that one is faulty, the cup is missing from one of them. I will exchange it soon. Spot the faulty one!!

 

 

Whilst I was photographing the Replica mouldings, the vents arrived from Dart Castings so I snapped this to compare the Hornby moulded vents with the MJT castings. I propose to clean up and prime the vents before fitting then painting the vents afterwards - it's about time I started my own blog here!

 

[S.A.C Martin]

I do like those vents you've got there, please show us a shot of the roof when you've done them

 

I have a feeling I may be making a visit to the Dart Castings website soon...!

[kintbury jon]

Just a slight variation on a theme, I have cut and fitted a pair of Heljan double white blanks to the left DTCsoL using double sided sellotape. The Hornby route numbers and blanks are too high up and I think this looks a little better. I'll do the same to the other vehicle so that they correctly show whites and reds in the direction of travel.

 

 

As well as colouring around the windows black, you may (or may not!) be able to see that I have tried to thicken the look of the gangway by colouring the inside of it black.

[kintbury jon]

Right guys, i've been busy this afternoon.

 

I'm pretty happy with the VEP now though the compartments look a bit rubbish especially the corridor section in the dark! Fishing around in the scrap box I found a Lima MK 2BFK interior. Pictures will show what i've done:

 

Carved up body:

Lima compartment piece glued in:

View through the corridor windows:

And in the dark:

 

Needs painting obviously but I think it looks better. I'd have thought a mk1 Bachmann FK interior might look better but I don't have one so will stick with Lima ones for now.

[Guest 838rapid]

Thats a great improvement Jon.

 

Improved the unit 100%

[Welly]

^^^

Great improvement to the corridor side of the first class section! Lucky you had an interior banging around but I propose to print a cutting template to the side and cut out the windows that way but I could do with some dimensions of the glazing holes - any chance of some measurements please, Jon?

[kintbury jon]

I can measure them but I don't think they're very accurate to be honest. I had a Bachmann SK interior but as the compartments are too small (as they are 2nd class). If you tell me exactly what you need to know though I can get my ruler out though it won't be the most accurate!

[NickL2008]

Might still get a VEP but may wait for the price to drop down a bit, the mods illustrated do improve the model it seems

 

NL

Edited September 24, 2011 by NickL2008

[andyman7]

Finally picked my blue VEP today - although the comments are very valid, I'm still happy with it compared to my memories of 20 years+ ago trying to fiddle with MTK kits etc! One comment i haven't seen is regarding the printing of the vertical bar on the large side windows. This was an opening vent when the units were built, and although quickly sealed up, they always retained a very noticeable anti-draught flange - this is very obviously not present and is to my eye more obvious than the cab end distorted proportions.

 

Of all the issues raised, the most significant one is the lack of compartment internal windows, I hope this as least will be addressed when we get a blue/grey version. The only other comment I would make is that the outer card carton it is packed in is very flimsy - for the price, you would think that we could have a nice thick card box with lift off lid to store the thing in. I noticed that the second batch of CEPs from Bachmann came in a much thicker gauge of outer card box.

[crompton 33]

i will get a vep when it's out in blue/ grey . but not till the price comes down with all these mod's to do.

[kintbury jon]

Must admit i've really enjoyed doing the modifications to it. It didn't look right as it was and a bit of farting around with it has made (for me) a really nice model.

 

One thing that has really been done well is the directional headcode lights. It's probably the only part that has trumped the Bachmann CEP and EPB - I don't like running the latter backwards as I think they look a bit silly with reds on the front but the VEP doesn't have that problem!

[Brian Kirby]

Excellent work there Kintbury Jon, that's a huge improvement. Strangely, as supplied the NSE Vep cab front looks better than on the plain blue, perhaps an optical illusion? Your black window and gangway edging has certainly sharpened things up even further and reduced the amount of yellow towards the corners.

Replacing the corridor partitions has transformed the side profile and now the lighting comes into it's own. Your night scene looks terrific, a few sparks around the pick-up shoes would be even better!

 

Well done.

 

Cheers, Brian.

[Brian Kirby]

I have to add, that S.A.C. has done a nice job on modifying the bogies and yes, they all seem correct now. I was also impressed by Gareth's vid of the plain blue unit on his club layout, the VEP seems to be running nicely with no discernible wobble, rather stately progress in fact.

 

I'm still of two minds about getting one (in blue), i can cope with all the mods and if the bodies don't match other types (rightly or wrongly), i can always run the VEPs singly or with eachother, which was certainly more typical in their early days. The mixing with CIGs, etc. became more common in later years.

 

Perhaps i shouldn't bite off my nose, to spite my face ( or cabfront ) ?

 

Cheers, Brian.

[S.A.C Martin]

I am feeling a little better about the look of it now - have done some experimenting on the bogies with weathering powders.

 

All the weathering is removable to some extent, but I think the toning down of the plastic and the emphasis on the "metal" look works well, so may do a little more and then seal it. The corridor ends I always remembered as being this orange to brown dirt towards the centres, so have tried to replicate that and the light rust on the bogies.

One of the good things about this thread is the sheer amount of "fixes" people are working out for themselves and everyone else - carry on lads, there's no lack of modelling here! Amazing work by all and the results are there for all to see.

 

I think I will have a go at the partition mod myself - I have a few lima bits and bobs hanging around somewhere. Very well photographed and the effect is terrific, thank you for sharing.

 

Thanks Brian for checking RE the bogies. I was afraid I would have got it wrong there!

 

As an aside, the SEMG website has been supremely useful in checking the look of the 4VEPs, my thanks to them.

[kintbury jon]

Thanks everyone for the complements. I agree with SAC, I think the thread has been very positive and given people ideas, just what RMweb is all about.

[zarniwhoop]

^^^

Great improvement to the corridor side of the first class section! Lucky you had an interior banging around but I propose to print a cutting template to the side and cut out the windows that way but I could do with some dimensions of the glazing holes - any chance of some measurements please, Jon?

 

One of my DTCs is currently bodyless while I hack on it. For the interior, I didn't have enough first-class compartments in my bits box, and anyway I'm dubious about my ability to saw off the whole corridor side without causing terminal damage to what is left. So, I've gone for a holes in each compartment, with a piece of 10 thou styrene.

 

On my Bachmann BCK interior, the windows and doors of both 1st and 2nd class compartments are the same width, all that differs is the width of the solid wall between them. The windows beside the seats appear to be 4.6mm wide, with the window in the door nearer 4mm wide. The dimension across the outer edges of the windows is about 20mm.

 

On the VEP DTC, the compartments are spaced at 28mm intervals (interestingly, the mid-compartment door on the corridor side doesn't exactly align with the compartment). I cut apertures 20mm wide by 18mm deep, then put on a piece of 10 thou styrene, cut as a string of 'T's - i.e. a 4mm deep band at the top, with verticals for the sides of the door. Mine are pretty rough and ready, but I really don't think anyone will be able to notice when the body is back together.

 

NB the seats were slightly 'distressed' by my razor saw when I cut the apertures.

 

No photos for the moment - I was sort-of thinking about starting a general VEP thread in the modifying-RTR section, where everyone could contribute their attempts to improve these, but this weekend I have bigger fish to fry. The before-painting photos were taken, but I need to manipulate them (CFD light - they are all sorts of weird colours at the moment). Meanwhile, painting the interior is at the limits of my ability - I've done the seats in purple, but it's a bit dark, and I'm not looking forward to the antimacassars (? the white bits on the headrests) and mirrors.

 

ĸen

[PaulRhB]

May I recommend a look at the difference a bit of weathering makes in post #514, page 21 on Kevins Leaford thread

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/4130-leaford-1990s-nse/page__st__500

 

Looks just like I remember

[Oldddudders]

I agree with SAC, I think the thread has been very positive and given people ideas, just what RMweb is all about.

It is also obvious that after the initial agonies, people are deriving real satisfaction from righting the Hornby wrongs. A model that has had some input from the owner invariably gains affection a perfect model out-of-the-box cannot quite match. That's not a good reason for Hornby to have loused it up in so many ways, but it sugars the pill a little.

[Gwiwer]

I concur with Ian and respect the fact that some "real modelling" has been done by a few of us to improve on the boxed product. Not all of us here, let alone Joe Public, will have time, skills or the will to carry out as much as might be required to make the Vep a respectably close representation of the original so I do hope this isn't the death-knell of Hornby's modern traction multiple units.

 

There are clearly issues which may be attributed to quality control and accurate CAD work. These are at least in theory within Hornby's remit to manage and the fact that they have failed does their credibility little good. The Vep remains a step back towards the Hornby "toy trains" but priced as though it were a quality model.

 

We now have some reports of persistent derailments, rough running and other problems. Again only from a representative small sample of the total customer base but enough that alarm bells might be ringing.

 

Not enough quality is there for my money.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Gwiwer

[S.A.C Martin]

This is the issue with the VEP I have: I could accept the moulded detail, the old style motor and a few more of shortcomings if certain aspects weren't wrong straight off the bat. Having the guard rails at the wrong end of a bogie, requiring both the steps and the 3rd rail shoe to be relocated to opposite sides to get it right should not be necessary on a brand new model, likewise the corridor partition (which has been extremely well modified in this very thread).

 

You shouldn't have to take a scalpel to a model to correct mistakes like this - you take a scalpel to the model to fit "better" detail, not correct it. Would you accept a model of a Peppercorn A1 with the chimney in the wrong place? So why should anyone accept a model with the bogies moulded incorrectly?

 

My biggest bugbear throughout all of this is the whitewashing of its problems in the press. There's been no mention of the bogie problem nor the overall look of the front end (and the posters in this thread are spot on when they say it doesn't look quite right). But I am absolutely staggered that in one publication last month, the Beattie Well Tank and 4VEP garnered the same score - 84%. The two reviews were done by different people, but I am not convinced that the 4VEP is in anyway as good as the Well Tank. The quality against accuracy, against price is definitely inferior by some margin.

 

It is also obvious that after the initial agonies, people are deriving real satisfaction from righting the Hornby wrongs. A model that has had some input from the owner invariably gains affection a perfect model out-of-the-box cannot quite match. That's not a good reason for Hornby to have loused it up in so many ways, but it sugars the pill a little.

 

Yes it does, and I am very fond of my 4VEP, now that it is getting a little TLC to look more as I remember them.

 

But I am now looking at its power bogie and the very stiff running bogies throughout the unit and wondering just how far I want to go to get this working a lot better. There's no doubt in my mind that the problems can be directly attributed to the design of the bogies and the way they take the axles. They literally clip in and clip out, and there's a lot of friction in them. Hence the traction tyre, as I think someone has already said previously in this thread.

 

I fear I will end up spending almost the same again to get a reliably running and good looking unit as I did to buy it in the first place.

Edited September 25, 2011 by S.A.C Martin