Plasticard coach techniques

[MikeTrice]

I am aware of the Wild Swan book which I have.

 

David also published a series of articles in the model press including Railway Modeller April, May, June and July 1979 which I am now actively seeking.

 

I seem to recall another series of articles in colour which might have been in Modeller's Backtrack but can find no reference.

 

Can anyone identify these additional articles?

 

Finally have any of you experiences of building coaches to 4mm using these techniques. I would certainly be interested to know what thickness layers were used and what glazing material was employed.

[Steph Dale]

Mike,

 

In my thread on Doing the Continental I came across the same issue when it emerged that the Wild Swan book is currently OOP.

 

Yesterday Adam kindly posted the following which relates to the building of coaches David did for MRJ's Inkerman Street:

 

The MRJ piece was in numbers 15, 18 and 22 which, you may be slightly alarmed to note was 23 years ago...

 

Adam

 

I'll be interested to see what else turns up in this thread and hope that Adam's info is useful in your quest.

 

Steph

[swampy]

The construction articles were in April/May and June/July 1992, and dealt with LNWR 12-wheel stock

[Colin parks]

The book Carriage Modelling Made Easy by David Jenkinson seems to be available from ianallanpublishing.com - They have processed my order for a copy and have not said it is out of print - so far!

 

Colin Parks

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I received the above book for my birthday earlier this year from my dear wife, accompanied by a request that I use the information to produce the Royal Train stock on display in the NRM.

[Tim Lewis]

The construction articles were in April/May and June/July 1992, and dealt with LNWR 12-wheel stock

 

There were actually 3 articles on these 12-wheelers, in (the late, lamented) Modeller's Backtrack Vol.1 No.6, Vol.2 No.1 and Vol.2 No.2

[MikeTrice]

Mike,

 

In my thread on Doing the Continental I came across the same issue when it emerged that the Wild Swan book is currently OOP.

 

Yesterday Adam kindly posted the following which relates to the building of coaches David did for MRJ's Inkerman Street:

 

 

 

I'll be interested to see what else turns up in this thread and hope that Adam's info is useful in your quest.

 

Steph

I am following your "Doing the Continental" with great interest. Beautiful work by the way.

[coachmann]

Apart from cost considerations and the fact that David could build any coach that took his fancy, the beauty of building coaches in plastikard in 7mm was their lightness compared with etched brass. Also one could carve exquisite window bolections of correct thickness and relief. 7mm etched brass never quite cuts it!

 

The same process could adapt to 4mm scale, but why bother when etched brass is adequate in the smaller scale.

 

 

Larry

[MikeTrice]

Apart from cost considerations and the fact that David could build any coach that took his fancy, the beauty of building coaches in plastikard in 7mm was their lightness compared with etched brass. Also one could carve exquisite window bolections of correct thickness and relief. 7mm etched brass never quite cuts it!

 

The same process could adapt to 4mm scale, but why bother when etched brass is adequate in the smaller scale.

 

 

Larry

Cost and availability. With plasticard anything is possible.

 

I notice someone's name kept coming up in the Wild Swan book regarding the painting of these. Any observations? I assume they were stripped into their component parts to paint?

[Steph Dale]

Larry,

 

I must admit that your view isn't so far from mine. I've scratchbuilt my chosen coach as there isn't (as far as I'm aware) an 0-gauge kit of the vehicle I'm interested in. It also gives me the opportunity to decide how I want to portray the various levels and thicknesses of doors, panelling, bolections etc.

 

And now even fully-panelled coaches hold no real fear for me in 7mm scale.

 

But, in 4mm scale, I'd worry about the ability to cut and layer an overlay of 0.005" over a 0.010" skin (say) - on that basis an etched side would be much easier, more accurate (or at least consistent) and much quicker to assemble. In the smaller scale I'd worry much less about things like the shape of the bolections...

 

The lack of weight isn't such an advantage either - I'm going to have to add a fair bit of ballast to my model to get it to sit properly. Where it does really help is in assembly; soldering great big chunks of brass such as 0-gauge coach sides isn't particularly 'fun' in my experience.

 

Steph

[coachmann]

Any observations? I assume they were stripped into their component parts to paint?

The bodies had interior partitions built in and were part of the chassis too. The wooden roof was separate as were the ends (usually) and bogies.

 

After spraying them with red oxide primer and leaving to 'cure' for an approapriate time, I then spayed mid brown through the windows from the outside in order to give the interior wall and partitions a wooden look. Strips of thick paper were cut to slip between the inner and outer walls (in the glazing slot) and exteriors sprayed LMS crimson lake. The ends were done at this time too.

 

The fully hardenned bodies were masked off and the underframes sprayed matt black along with the bogies and the part of the roof below the gutter strip. The final spray job was sprying the centra part of the roof a greenish-grey colour.

 

After that it was studio work picking out all the raised panelling and end beading in cellulose gloss black (with all the windows wide open!). Next followed the creamy yellow line in Humbrol either side of the black, transfers and gloss varnish. Job done! David fitted the door and grab handles at his end along wth seating and glazing.

 

Goodness knows how many I painted over the years from the 1970s. As an aside, I placed one of his coaches on the garden fence to photograph against a blue sky only to discover it wasnt there when I looked in the viewfinder. It was in next doors garden! I discovered that day how resistant his coaches were to the odd bump....

 

Larry G.

[MikeTrice]

As an aside, I placed one of his coaches on the garden fence to photograph against a blue sky only to discover it wasnt there when I looked in the viewfinder.

You have photos??????

[craigwelsh]

Larry,

 

But, in 4mm scale, I'd worry about the ability to cut and layer an overlay of 0.005" over a 0.010" skin (say) - on that basis an etched side would be much easier, more accurate (or at least consistent) and much quicker to assemble. In the smaller scale I'd worry much less about things like the shape of the bolections...

Steph

Plastic does hold the advantage of possible smoother edges to the panelling even in 4mm and you could get one laser cut to maintain the accuracy factor. You could recess the glazing into the window frames too this way but it would be a bit more expensive than brass in the end..

 

I'd managed to miss the 'Doing the Continental' thread as I hadn't looked beyond the title, now catching up!

[Jim Martin]

There were actually 3 articles on these 12-wheelers, in (the late, lamented) Modeller's Backtrack Vol.1 No.6, Vol.2 No.1 and Vol.2 No.2

 

That's quite right (I dug out my copies last night) but the first article is about the prototypes and doesn't include any modelling content. That's not to say that it isn't worth reading - quite the opposite - but you wouldn't learn anything about Jenkinson's techniques from it.

 

Jim

[jamie92208]

There was also a set of I think 4 articles about constructing midland clerestories. I used them and have got several built using Jenky's method. I'll try and find the references.

 

 

Jamie

[gobbler]

some interesting views here......

 

I can't beat a bit 'o' scratchin' just for the satisfaction in knowing "I built that" and "it don't look too shabby"

 

a scale drawing a sheet of plastic and mostly anything is possible.

 

see my suburban link below for my results.

 

thanks,

 

Scott

[ullypug]

I've built a number of 4 wheelers in 4mm for my WC&PR layout using David's technique. Photo shows a 24ft (I think) ex LSWR family saloon as converted by the wcpr. Main overlay was done in a single sheet of 5 thou from Evergreen. Bolections added subsequently as David's book. I didn't really have any problems, the only thing I can recall is being very careful when filing out the corners of the overlay sheet. Close support with flat nosed pliers was essential.

[meple]

and you could get one laser cut to maintain the accuracy factor.

 

 

Not in styrene you can't. Styrene damages the LASER.

[craigwelsh]

Not in styrene you can't. Styrene damages the LASER.

True but they can cut a plastic that is usable.

[Miss Prism]

I can't get on with 5 thou panelling layers, and I admire anyone who can. Personally, I use a 10 thou fret, and then sand it down when fixed to the outer shell.

 

On the laser-cutting matter, I was impressed by the accuracy of York Modelmaking's efforts, but I think the thinnest he's tried is in the 20 thou region (???). However, for custom jobs where CAD is supplied by the customer, I was not convinced that plastic laser etching was cost effective enough compared to conventional metal chemical etching.

 

 

 

 

 

[10800]

According to the YMM blurb, they use Rowmark (the styrene equivalent they can laser) down to 0.75mm (30 thou) and clear acrylic to 0.5mm (20 thou).

 

They can also cut Mylar film in thicknesses from 350 down to 75 microns which I think is about 14 thou down to 3 thou, but I don't know how useful that would be as a modelling material.

[coachmann]

To my mind, in the much smaller 4mm, the tricks and illusions used in brass etching to represent bolections etc are well good enough. Remember too that 4mm scale width raised panelling is very very difficult to line out convincingly.

[Etched Pixels]

<br />To my mind, in the much smaller 4mm, the tricks and illusions used in brass etching to represent bolections etc are well good enough. Remember too that 4mm scale width raised panelling is very very difficult to line out convincingly.<br />

 

Try it in 2 - in fact one reason to use multiple layers of thin metal for some coaches is that you then have some vague chance of painting them properly without being a wizard (or layering etch/vinyl/etch and other sneaky tricks)

 

One or two LMS coach kits used a four thou or there abouts overlay layer so you could paint the coach LMS red, the overlay black, then scrape around the edge of the overlay (or run a fine yellow ink around the edge) and then glue it together.

 

GWR people may get to avoid modelling complex valve gear but there's a lot to be said for modelling a company that didn't line its coaching stock too much. My SECR coaches are still unlined because the real things looked like someone had an oversupply of bored lining painters all of whom wanted a go. I mean - lining the solebar - with patterns ????

 

Alan

[bertiedog]

Not in styrene you can't. Styrene damages the LASER.

 

Are you sure?, we used to have 5 thou and 10 thou plastic sheet cut by laser, and it was white styrene and white ABS, with no discolouration and clean edges, the parts used in special laboratory instruments control panels, and optical targets, etc.

It does require the right sort of laser, and gas protection of the cutting point, but there seems no basic restriction now on polystyrene being used.

Stephen.

[meple]

Are you sure?, we used to have 5 thou and 10 thou plastic sheet cut by laser, and it was white styrene and white ABS, with no discolouration and clean edges, the parts used in special laboratory instruments control panels, and optical targets, etc.

It does require the right sort of laser, and gas protection of the cutting point, but there seems no basic restriction now on polystyrene being used.

Stephen.

 

 

As stated in York Modelmaking's FAQ:

Which materials can NOT be laser cut ?

 

 

 

Unfortunately Styrene, commonly known as “plasticard†can not be laser cut due to the chemicals it makes and the inferior cut that is produced. This also extends to anything with PVC in it.