dai Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 Hi there I'm looking for information on the class 303 Gresley bogies. The outside trailer cars had a different bogie than the motor coach, but I'm not sure if they are 8', 8'6" or 10ft gresley bogies. I'd appreciate it, if anyone can point me in the right direction. regards Evan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 That looks like the standard 8'6" type. (The 8'6" Gresley bogie came in two flavours, standard, and 'heavy' with a slightly deeper frame member.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47401 Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 The second bogie in your photos is a motor bogie and I suspect was bespoke for the 303/311; it will have been under the motor coach (I cannt remember if both ends of the motor coach had the same bogie style. The other bogie is indeed a Gresley type but can not find immediately a reference to its wheelbase. I have found a reference in a Combined Volume for 2000 that they were fitted with Gresley ED3/ET3 bogies but unable to translate. If you have access to Brian Haresnape's Fleet Survey, that would be my first port of call to try and clarify the bogie situation. Unfortunately I do not have access to my copies at present. I cann't immediately think of any other published reference which might contain some information on 303s. Sorry cann't be much more help at this stage. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted September 11, 2010 Share Posted September 11, 2010 8'6" Heavy duty. The rivets above the axlebox are the giveaway. Standard has single row of five, heavy duty two rows of three and four. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dai Posted September 12, 2010 Author Share Posted September 12, 2010 Thanks guys for your replies. I'm considering building one of these sets in 7mm. The 8'6" heavy duty gresley bogies are available from several suppliers, but the motor bogies are still a mystery. regards Evan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted September 12, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 12, 2010 you might get some useful info of Charlie of DC kits, who produces a 4mm scale kit of these types? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47401 Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Had the courage and been and dug out my copy of Brian Haresnape's Fleet Survey from the depths of the cupboard! The relevant volume is No 11 and was written by Alec Swain. For each fleet type they include one BR weight diagram (has some basic dimensions etc) and can confirm that the bogies under the two driving cars were 8' 6" Gresley style bogies. The ones under the motor coach (centre vehicle of a 3 car set) had a wheelbase of 8' 9". On the photos I did think that the motor bogie had a longer wheelbase. There are two motor bogies per motor coach (confirmed as they had a total of 4 Traction Motors). Looking through the rest of the book as well as 303 & 311 these motor bogies (with different types of traction motor of course!) appear to have also been fitted to 305 and 308 classes. It looks to be of a "BR" design as that type does not appear to have been fitted to LNER design electric stock. I think you will end up having to scratch build the motor bogie but you have a pretty good photo of one above (full side on) and now know the wheelbase so it should be possible to produce a drawing of the side frame. Not too sure where you could find a drawing as the units were built by Pressed Steel. BR may have inherited some drawings which will either be at Raildata or NRM. There is one preserved I believe in Scotland. Hope that all helps. Would be great to hear how you get on and see the finished model. Rode on them on a daily basis 25 years ago when I lived on Cathcart Circle and worked in Glasgow! Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dai Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi Richard and Russ Thanks for your replies. Russ, I had thought about contacting DC kits as I know he produces a 4mm kit. I have actually detailed drawing of the undercarriage and inner seating arrangement from a 1962 report on the failure of Multiple-unit Electrical Trains on British railways. The report is full of details regarding the use of 25kV verses 6.25kV systems, rectifiers in use and circuit breakers as well as discussing the accidents and failures of various units. The report describes in detail the 5 transformer failures which plagued the class 303 shortly after coming into service in 1960. It doesn't however give any details on the bogies. Richard, I have already started to source different manufacturers for parts which are available in 7mm. I hope to build model in brass. The wrap round windows will be a particular challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flubrush Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Not too sure where you could find a drawing as the units were built by Pressed Steel. BR may have inherited some drawings which will either be at Raildata or NRM. There is one preserved I believe in Scotland. I;ve been looking for drawings for the Blue Trains for years, with no success. I even contacted a kit manufacturer some years ago, who had produced a Class 303 kit, to enquire of their source of drawings, to find out that they had measured up an actual unit to get their data. Jim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffmeister_general Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hi there, Bo'ness preserved railway have one of the 303s for refurbishment. How about you drop them an email or if within reasonable driving distance pop into the society? http://www.srps.org.uk/railway/ Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffmeister_general Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Evan, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread but I thought it would be a good way of continuing the 303 discussion rather than start another one. After seeing this thread, I got myself online and ordered a oo kit from DC kits. My question is regarding the some paint codes for the orange / black livery and SPT crimson & cream liveries. I know there is paints exactly for strathclyde orange / black and spt crimson and cream liveries by railmatch and pheonix paints but can anyone give me some advice as to what exact colours should be used for the roof, underside and cab end for both these variants? Many thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 This may be of interest as it appears to be the motor bogie you are interested in. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted September 26, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 26, 2010 Evan, I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread but I thought it would be a good way of continuing the 303 discussion rather than start another one. After seeing this thread, I got myself online and ordered a oo kit from DC kits. My question is regarding the some paint codes for the orange / black livery and SPT crimson & cream liveries. I know there is paints exactly for strathclyde orange / black and spt crimson and cream liveries by railmatch and pheonix paints but can anyone give me some advice as to what exact colours should be used for the roof, underside and cab end for both these variants? Many thanks in advance. Hi all, SPT - Orange/Black Chassis/Underframe - I use the same black as on the body. Weather with favourite mix of track colour and underframe dirt. Roof - Coaching Stock Roof Grey - Weather to taste heavily! SPT - Crimson/Cream Chassis/Underframe - I use smokebox black. Weather as for previous livery. Roof - Coaching Stock Roof Grey - Weather to taste - not as heavy as prevous livery. Cab ends - BR Warning panel yellow. Hope this helps...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Hi all, SPT - Orange/Black Chassis/Underframe - I use the same black as on the body. Weather with favourite mix of track colour and underframe dirt. Roof - Coaching Stock Roof Grey - Weather to taste heavily! SPT - Crimson/Cream Chassis/Underframe - I use smokebox black. Weather as for previous livery. Roof - Coaching Stock Roof Grey - Weather to taste - not as heavy as prevous livery. Cab ends - BR Warning panel yellow. Hope this helps...... All the paints are available from DC Kits along with 4mm Transfers. Ta charlie@dckits.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffmeister_general Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Hi all, SPT - Orange/Black Chassis/Underframe - I use the same black as on the body. Weather with favourite mix of track colour and underframe dirt. Roof - Coaching Stock Roof Grey - Weather to taste heavily! SPT - Crimson/Cream Chassis/Underframe - I use smokebox black. Weather as for previous livery. Roof - Coaching Stock Roof Grey - Weather to taste - not as heavy as prevous livery. Cab ends - BR Warning panel yellow. Hope this helps...... Hi Scottish Modeller - thanks for that.....any pics of your models?? Charlie - sorry didn't know you also did transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dai Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hi Paul Thanks for the photo of the 8'9" power bogie. That'll be really helpful with scratch building. Pages 24 and 25 from the BR EMU Trains Diagram Book on the http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html website show drawings of the driving trailer open second and the non-driving motor open brake second coaches. I'm going to have a go at producing a photo-tool to have the coaches etched in brass in 7mm. I'd love to get my tape measure out and measure the carriages at Bo'ness myself, but I live too far away. Has anyone got any scale drawings that I can compare with the ones kindly made available on the barrowmoremrg website? Evan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted October 10, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2010 Hi All, Hi Scottish Modeller - thanks for that.....any pics of your models?? Will be making an appearance on an all new layout at Modelrail 2012. Not releasing photos till that's all set up and confirmed! Will also feature several of the Bratchell EMU models as well. Charlie - sorry didn't know you also did transfers. I've used Charlies decals on mine and find them good quality and easy to use. That reminds me to get him to bring some more up to Glasgow in Feb! Charlie - do you still have the driving bogie measurements from when you designed the CL303 kit? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffmeister_general Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Will be making an appearance on an all new layout at Modelrail 2012. Not releasing photos till that's all set up and confirmed! Will also feature several of the Bratchell EMU models as well. Hi Phil, I will certainly look forward to that!!!!! I'm wishing to model the 303s in orange/black livery and carmine & cream prior to their retirement. Can I ask what era of 303s are you modelling and I'm looking to obtain details on how to get the cab detailing cables (don't know what they are all are!) - would you be able to assist?? Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 a shameless fotopic plug http://darrel817.fotopic.net/c1696903.html hope some of the photos are of use to anyone making a 303 I have lots more photos if anyone is looking for something specific Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted November 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi Phil, I will certainly look forward to that!!!!! I'm wishing to model the 303s in orange/black livery and carmine & cream prior to their retirement. http://www.flickr.co...e65/4388236656/ Can I ask what era of 303s are you modelling and I'm looking to obtain details on how to get the cab detailing cables (don't know what they are all are!) - would you be able to assist?? Thanks again. Hi all, 'Edinburgh - Southside is a representation of what might have been 'Edinburgh's Second Station'. The basic premis is that the Dalkeith and Edinburgh Railway 'The Innocent Railway' was retained to it's terminus at St Leonards. With the continued development of Edinburgh demand for services continued to grow and the station was rebuilt to serve the increased passenger traffic. With the opening of the Scottish Parliament further development took place including a new station building from the architect who did the parliament building.' At least that's how we will be telling it! With a bit of careful planning we have been able to create a scene that can portray a number of dates. This is to enable us to vary the trains and use what e like! So... Class 303's will be running in Blue, Blue/Grey, Strathclyde Orange, Strathclyde Crimson Cream. More modern units will have the range of liveries appropriate for the various dates. Other trains will appear as and when required! For reference there are loads of Class 303 photos out on the web! Searches I have saved give over 1000 images to work with..... Hoep this helps Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted November 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2010 a shameless fotopic plug http://darrel817.fot...t/c1696903.html hope some of the photos are of use to anyone making a 303 I have lots more photos if anyone is looking for something specific Hi Darrel, I've already visited the Fotopic! Found it very usefull as well. More photos are always meeded. I went specifically for your 303 048 photos as this may become a signature model once I get round to building it. The interior photos are also a great help - just wish we had more. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I was involved in the preservation of 303048 and have over 100 photos of the unit let me know what you are looking for. I have photos of the interior of the refurbished units sadly not many of the unrefurbished units. I have lots of early photos of the 303s but dont own the copyright so cant put them on my photopic site or post them here but can email copies of them. I could put everything onto a disc for you if that would be easier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puffmeister_general Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi Phil, Thanks for that - your layout sounds great and I will be making a point to see it whenever it goes on display - good luck to you on that. Really sorry, but I actually meant would you be able to assist in putting me in the right dircetion for modelling parts for the cab detail in respect of the 303. Are the cables, lights etc available from a distributor? Darrel - your a top bloke, I was planning to head up to Bo'ness to have a look at the preserved 303 but have never found the time yet - if it's ok with you I'll jump at the chance of a disc. I'll PM you with my details. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted November 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2010 Hi Phil, Really sorry, but I actually meant would you be able to assist in putting me in the right dircetion for modelling parts for the cab detail in respect of the 303. Are the cables, lights etc available from a distributor? Cheers Hi all, OK - Understood... No - there are no parts available specific to the CLass 303. Most of mine come out of the bits box! Over the years I've bought etchings, castings, mouldings and kept anything that wasn't used at the time. So - From memory.... Pipes could be of Craftsman (cast white metal), S Kits (brass), or Heljan (plastic) Jumper cables are Telephone wire, Boxes are either O gauge axle boes carved up or plastic carved up. Hope this gives some ideas! Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.