AndyB Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Well the recent feedback on N-gauge EMU kit bashing from you guys has got me thinking about what to model next. So, I'm after your thoughts on freight movements around the London, Tilbury & Southend in the 70s and 80s; maybe concentraiting on the Tilbury loop and upwards to Barking & London. I've been re-reading "Down the Line to Southend" for starters, but this doesn't really cover the era + freight that I'm interested in. I'm guessing that components may have been delivered to the Ford plant at Dagenham, and finished products shipped out? But this is just a guess. Can anyone enlighten me. Would it be a safe bet to assume that there would have been container traffic to the docks? Anyone know what types of locos would have been used. 31s, 37s, 47s? Lastly, is there a book out there that covers this? As ever, thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted October 31, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 31, 2010 This link may help a little with types although 1989 may be a little late for your chosen period. From (hazy) memory classes 08/31/37 & 47 were the mainstay. Try Googling various combinations of LTS, Tilbury loop, Ripple Lane for more info'. HTH Rob Here's another link to photos http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Ripple%20Lane&w=all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Hi, Rob, Thanks for the link. Has anyone modelled the LTS in this era? What I had in mind was a layout with a higher level line with EMUs (somewhat repetitive on its own) and a spur with freight heading down to Dagenham and Tilbury to add variety. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Class 37 on oil train duties at Grays. http://johnlawontherails.fotopic.net/p24963246.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimero Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Oil and petroleum from Thames Haven Aviation fuel from purfleet Freightliners at Tilbury and Barking Spoil trains from La Portes at Barking Cartics from Dagenham dock and ford liners Coal from Tilbury area Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2010 Actually, if you nominate Classes 31/37/47, what else was there at that date? Not a lot really. 25s were numerous, but maybe not so much around there. 56s? Where were they based? 33s were still very much SR, and would have been restricted in this area to Thames Haven/Ripple Lane tanks. Coming off the Tottenham & Hampstead at Barking would be a succession of trains from - the rest of Britain! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 1, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2010 What about the Thames Haven branch? As well as the oil refinery there was Lever Brothers (washing powder) and Van de Burghs (margarine) based on the branch. All three companies operated their own industrial locomotives. As well as the tanks for the refinery Levers used powder tankers and Van de Burghs imported vegetable oils by tanker and both companies dispatched their products by rail using vans. During the 60's and 70's trains of presflo wagons could be seen coming on and off the branch. EDIT There was also some military traffic to and from Shoeburyness, but this was probably only the odd van or container. P.S. Cement traffic from Purfleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Phil, you've just reminded me of Bata Town (now East Tilbury)! Kind of surreal place in the fifties - my Mother drove me through there once - then later I was convinced that I had dreamed the experience,,,,,, Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 1, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2010 Oil and petroleum from Thames Haven Aviation fuel from purfleet Freightliners at Tilbury and Barking Spoil trains from La Portes at Barking Cartics from Dagenham dock and ford liners Coal from Tilbury area In the 70's - 80's mostly hauled by classes 37 and 47, sometimes in pairs, though with some 31 on lighter trains. Lots of class 08 activity still arounsd in those days as well. Inter-regional workings were common (and indeed still are) with the Barking - Kentish Town / Gospel Oak route being heavily used. Some SR workings featured class 33 to Thameshaven. Going back to the earlier part of the 70's there would have been class 04 and 11 shunters around and some of the more exotic and short-lived main line classes would have appeared. Classes 15 and 20 come to mind in particular, 24, 25 and 40 may well have worked in also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calimero Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 85s on ford work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 This layout is going to need some fiddleyard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Spent quite a few days spotting at Barking around 1982-ish. Almost always 31/37/47 on the freights, nearly all of which were on the Tilbury side of the station. In addition to what was mentioned above, Ford had some special pallet vans in a blue colour. Double 37s on freightliners common enough, and a fair sight tackling the flyovers at the London end of Barking. Will try to look out some photos if you like. No electric locos at that period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Was the parcels traffic still operating out of Southend East in the 70s? And what about the sidings at Grays? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Thanks very much. Photos would be good. Just been told (by the domestic management) not to make the curves too sharp to allow Class 40s to appear. I take that as a green light to proceed!! Think I may need a 2nd or 3rd job to pay for all this new rolling stock, though. For info, there was military traffic down to the MoD site at Shoeburyness, albeit occassional. (I was at school down there and freight trains were a rare sight). We did, however, get a daily parcels to Southend East. 31 or 37. which serviced the local credit card company. I'm getting the sense that the standard fayre of EMUs seen at the eastern end of the LTS was only a slice of what was going on closer to town. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 1, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2010 Shoebury was/is used for storage of redundant rolling stock, Southern Region and London Underground EMU's in particular. These often went via the Tilbury loop usually between match wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Was the parcels traffic still operating out of Southend East in the 70s? Very much so. Daily service using either Class 31 or 37. http://davidford663.fotopic.net/p56419795.html Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Right, photo library raided... First up, Barking in 1982-83: 31 on MCVs, possibly scrap metal 37s on containers about to go over the flyover The obligatory Cricklewood DMU on what's now called the GOBLIN line 31 on mixed stuff as a 47 descends the flyover on more containers 47 on tanks 47 on container flats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Next up, East of Barking Grays, 37 on tanks, 1983 and a couple from a gloomy Ripple Lane in 1985 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 And a few wagons for good measure: Ford vans ancient and modern: and washing powder ingredients Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 And one from a dodgy 1979 126 print, 33065, headcode EK with tanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Right, photo library raided... EastWestDivide, you're a star. Thank-you for taking the time and trouble to share these photos. Going to have to sit down and think how to squeeze all this in! Germ of an idea forming... Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted November 1, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2010 There is film of freight trains moving through Barking here from 07.14 on >> http://www.britishpa...cord.php?id=438 They are from the 60's so I hope they are not to early for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon H Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Going to have to sit down and think how to squeeze all this in! Germ of an idea forming... For some time now, I have been formulating a plan for a very intensive layout based directly on Barking, to include the lines between the western face of the station building (natural scenic break) and the top of the flyover on the Woodgrange Park route (A406 bridge break, not quite so natural), and to include the District line flyover. There would be a fiddle yard at each end. With this the aim is not specifically freight operation, but a representation of four independent EMU/DMU based shuttle operations (five operations if you include freight). The LTS Tilbury lines (Plats 7 & 8), LTS Upminster lines (Plats 4 & 5), District Line (Plats 3 & 6 plus Bay 2) and Gospel Oak (Plat 1). Freight would share the Tilbury line operation as 'specials' during lulls in the EMU shuttling. Most of the items required for this can be obtained or adapted for a 4mm scale version. One major problem with it is that it requires a minimum of 32 ft in length to make it work. Another issue is the split of the District Up/Down lines around the Upminster LTS platforms, which makes a District shuttle operation awkward to arrange at the eastern end fiddleyard - however I have a cunning plan for that. In the meantime, I may well construct a 6ft long 'T' Gauge version as a demonstrator to add to my other shelves on the MERG 'Flower Stand' display. Not much in the way of freight (or locos - except a Deltic body kit) available for 'T' yet, but plenty of EMU variations are possible. Certainly won't be ready for Warley this year, but maybe next. If anyone is interested, I will have some of the original design data with me at this year's show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 For some time now, I have been formulating a plan for a very intensive layout based directly on Barking... Very intensive would be the word. The rush hour there was a constant procession of EMUs towards Essex and non-stop District line. Seem to recall that it was rare to see a green signal, as the trains were running so close. My 1978 timetable shows 23 trains leaving Fenchurch St between 1700-1759. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 My "solution" to modelling some of this may well offend purists. I don't think anyone will be staggering backwards, remarking on it's ressemblance to any particular bit of the LTS ! Somewhat space limited I'm thinking of a relatively long/thin layout which combines a high level viaduct section, not dissimilar to those seen between Fenchurch St and Barking. EMUs would process up and down the viaduct. This bit I have already waiting in the wings ready. Running in front of this viaduct would be a freight line which would host some of the trains described in this thread. Overall what I'd like to achieve is a mix of freight and LTS EMUs. "Thin" means I could probably get away with "longer", partly on storage grounds but also on time to build it. I already have a large-ish layout that takes up much time during the summer... Working title for this effort? How about "Roding Reach"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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