coachmann Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 After I saw a shot of a 'Barnum' Open Brake Third coach crossing Saddleworth Viaduct, I just had to add one to the 'fleet' one day. This picture shows 45708 'Resolution' working a Hull-Liverpool Lime Street express. The Delph Branch curves away to the left. Photo by Jim Davenport (Brian Green collection)... Prototype... These and the matching open thirds were most unusual vehicles and owned more to USA practice than the British school of design. Built at Dukinfield in 1910 for excursion use, alterations made by the LNER included fitting sliding toplight windows and roof destination board brackets. 4mm scale Model... A box of etched parts arrived a few weeks ago. On examining the etchings it was clear I should enlist the assistance of Adrian Rowland to draw up the end door commode handles drawn on CAD. As there was no floor in the kit (!!!) Adrian cut one from 18thou nickel silver. These were the sides as supplied. I removed the parts shaded in green by scoring the half-etch line until it could be easily broken off without distorting the sides proper The top fold-over was also scored deeper at this time as it would be bent over at right-angles later... I set the sides aside while the ends were folded up. Again it is best to scribe the fold lines before attempting any right-angle bends. A critisism levelled at Jidenko kits was the poor relation between tongue and slot joins (amongst other things). This is clearly shown here where the draughtsmanship was poor, and has not been upgraded by Falcon Brass. I cut off the tongues.... Here we see the floor, folded up ends, vestibule partitions and sides... Slots were cut out of the floor as shown.... The ends were then soldered to the floor and the vestibule partitions added. After this, the top was folded over at right angles to brace the sides. The coach sides were then soldered to the partitions. I should add at this point that I had set aside a plastic roof for this coach and trimmed the ends to the new profile, If I were building another, I would fit an MJT LNER roof. The blanks filling the luggage door openings were removed with a knife and strips of 22thou brass were soldered inside the openings to give the sides the required depth before attaching the doors.... After this the end detail was added including the etched step ladders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Very nice and a unusual coach. What livery will it be in. ? Have you seen http://www.gcr-rollingstocktrust.co.uk/articles_output.asp?id=11&checkSource=sitemap http://www.gcr-rollingstocktrust.co.uk/stock.asp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 Have you seen Yes thanks. I think I must have got this info from one of your threads while a model was still under consideration. a unusual coach. What livery will it be in. ? LNER grained teak livery. I haven't seen any photos of them in anything else in BR days and I doubt they got blood & custard...........Now that would have been interesting! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 The solebars in the kit are very nicely detailed but are only 6thou thickness and are like tinfoil. This in iteself would not have prevented me using them on a suitable backing of brass, but the real solebars happened to be channel section. This is not clear on some scale drawings I've seen, but it shows clearly on photos of partially dismantled coaches undergoing restoration. So I used my own that are on 22thou brass....Not strictly correct detail-wise but they'll do. The two types are illustrated below. The Barnum bufferbeams were utilised seeing as they are wider than on normal stock, but were thickened up with backing pieces to represent wood construction. Then rectangles of brass square section were soldered above the beams to take the end door steps. The latter are really neat etchings... Turning to the underframe, an MJT Turnbuckle trussrod 'kit' was used. It is intended for LNER coaches but I decided to use it anyway. The queenpost etch had to be lengthened with scrap brass so that the posts appeared longer (going off a Nick Campling drawing). One queenpost fret was soldered in place then the turnbuckle trussing was used as a spacer to position the other queenposts. After this I simply followed MJTs instruction sheet. Cylinders provided in the kit were far too large and so I got some from the trusty scrapbox. No batteryboxes were provided so LMS ones were fitted plus my own V-hangers etc.... I made hoods to go above the windows from 22thou brass strip. One thing I noticed while fitting tem was the step in the windows, which are slightly higher at the luggage end than the passenger windows. So the hoods were attached all in line to 'hide' this. A word or two about the GCR 10ft 6ins w.b. bogies. I made the patterns thirty years ago (Larriparts). Firstly I removed the centre bolster and filed the slot clean. The sideframes were then soldered to my own brass top plates and separate bolster castings were soldered behind the sideframes. This gave the bogies more depth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 19, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2010 Coach that looks very good - I was toying with the idea of one of these as a strengthener for a Liverpool Central rake - juts not sure if they lasted that long in revenue service. Any idea what the date of your heading photo was? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 Any idea what the date of your heading photo was? Unfortunately my late friend Jim took the information with him, but I expect it was 1950-1953ish. All the Gresley coaches behind the Barnum were also in teak livery but there is little else to date the photo. Jim took another picture of this train with the same loco but from a higher vantage point behind a stone wall. Without access to the negatives I cannot say if the train was initially brought to a stand and Jim was able to secure the shot shown above as it stated away from the signal. Of course he may have got the photos on two separate occasions. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted December 19, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 19, 2010 Many thanks for that Larry as Mike has backdated Herculaneum to LOR days it looks like one may have been seen down in Central - I will add it to the to do list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 Let painting commence. Red oxide primer first and allowed to dry for 4 hours, followed by gloss 'sand' base colour for teak. This was then selectively masked to leave windows, corner pillars and ends showing for a mixture I call 'teak panelling' to be sprayed on. This is less messy than poking a brush around and losing fine detail around windows.... The chassis and roof were sprayed black and whllst wet were oversprayed in a weathering colour. Graining and feathering in Humbrol enamel paint will follow.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Coach that looks very good - I was toying with the idea of one of these as a strengthener for a Liverpool Central rake - juts not sure if they lasted that long in revenue service. Any idea what the date of your heading photo was? The article here by John Quick My link has a photo of one of these in service dated to 1956. Hope this helps. Looks like they lasted at least as long as the LOR anyway. At the end of the article it says the last Barnum was withdrawn in 1958 but it's not clear whether this would be a brake or saloon. Also says some were in carmine and cream! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Minor hickup with the painting hence no updates for a couple of days. The paint sprayed around the windows was the wrong colour, something I hadn't spotted in my haste to get back indoors out of the snow and darkness. Been mixing something this morning to match the colour put on a GCR Matchboard non-corridor coach but at least the graining is almost finished. I hadn't fully read the link given by Mickler and Poggy1165 when wondering is any of the Barnums recieved blood & custard. I wonder if anyone photographed one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted December 21, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2010 Minor hickup with the painting hence no updates for a couple of days. The paint sprayed around the windows was the wrong colour, something I hadn't spotted in my haste to get back indoors out of the snow and darkness. Been mixing something this morning to match the colour put on a GCR Matchboard non-corridor coach but at least the graining is almost finished. I hadn't fully read the link given by Mickler and Poggy1165 when wondering is any of the Barnums recieved blood & custard. I wonder if anyone photographed one? Photos exist of both the brake third and all third in blood and custard. There was, in all probability, just one example of each in the livery. I have just recently been working on a pair for Roy Jackson's layout (one Jidenco and one from D & S) and John Quick had kindly helped out with a full list of numbers, withdrawal dates and some excellent photos. The weather and illness have meant that I haven't been over for a few weeks now but once I do get there I will see if we can get something scanned and sent on to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 The weather and illness have meant that I haven't been over for a few weeks now but once I do get there I will see if we can get something scanned and sent on to you. Thanks very much and I hope you are making a good recovery. As you have withdrawal dates, I do hope brake third 5697 made it past 1954! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 The impressive range but sad quality of the Falcon kits strikes again. You have made an excellent job of making something worthwhile out of what was essentially a scratch aid. Every time I see one of these kits I despair a little that they have not been transferred to CAD and re-worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Every time I see one of these kits I despair a little that they have not been transferred to CAD and re-worked. I completely agree. During construction a mental note was made of how it would be redrawn on CAD (not by me I should add) to produce a buildable kit. The only thing I had etched were the long door handles. Once the floor was accurately cut the body was supringly easy to put together. A pal of mine said it looks like a cricket pavilion on wheels so maybe the 'Barnums' do not turn people on..B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Here are some shots of the detail. After the coach had been grained, lettered and satin-varnished, the glazing was cut and fitted. The kit contains some neat glazing bars for the 12 luggage windows so these were painted mid brown and glued in place with Evostick. The various holes for door and grab handles were then drilled out through the glazing, then the specially etched handled secured in place with Loctite. Next a picture of the GCR coat-of-arms was scanned and cut out. It was placed on a plain gray background then texture added. Finally an affect was applied to give it an engraved-on-glass look, reduced and printed on art paper for the Lavatory and Washroom windows.... In case it is of use, a large print is given below... The next move covers the interior seats and tables. Because of the fold-over ledge at the top of the coach sides, a drop-in interior was not possible. So all the components have to be juggled into place and glued onto a plastikard floor.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 There are several photos of Barnums at the end of their lives in BR livery on my site see http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/p49008494.html and others. Very complex coach, coming along nicely. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 There are several photos of Barnums at the end of their lives in BR livery on my site see http://gallery6801.f.../p49008494.html and others. Very complex coach, coming along nicely. Thanks, and guess where I saw the pictures when working out various details. I was going to ask if I could use one of your shots in my WB thread but could not find a home link. Your site has been invaluable for various other coaches as well but it is only now that I have linked your name with your handle on RMweb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Thanks, and guess where I saw the pictures when working out various details. I was going to ask if I could use one of your shots in my WB thread but could not find a home link. Your site has been invaluable for various other coaches as well but it is only now that I have linked your name with your handle on RMweb. Thanks and thats fine. But it is easy to email me, my email address is on every front page, or if you make a comment on a photo then it is emailed to me. Fotopic is very practical with many options of how it is set up. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 The seats and tables were painted before being inserted into the coach. After being centred with windows, Plastic Weld was brushed onto the units to hold them in place. The floor was given a coat of matt dark brown then some etched seat ends were glued in place that were left over from an LMS 'job'. They are not accurate for this coach but look the part. A drawing of a 'Barnum' interior appeared in 'British Railway Carriages of the 20th Century - 1901-1922' By D.Jenkinson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 21, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2010 The 'master' makes a silk purse etc. Classic build Coach from what is surely a 'difficult' set of etches to get together. I look forward to seeing the finished job tomorrow. Phil @ 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hi Phil, Not as bad to put together as I first thought but it has been very time-consuming. One is really only buying it for the etched sides, ends and detail parts, but at the end of the day, I will have a 'Barnum' for the Hull train. The interior is now fully painted. (An error on the page is affecting images at the moment). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 First of all, my thanks to Paul Bartlett for kindly allowing me to use one of his pictures on this thread. I have taken a comparison shot... "Attached Thumbnails" problem now eradicated after Andy Y suggested deleting cookies. Learned something now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Nothing wrong with the images from this browser another 1st class professional build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 Nothing wrong with the images from this browser another 1st class professional build. Cookies deleted to sort the problem. And thanks for your kind comment. That coach is the very last for varnished teak livery, all futures being in BR official early 50's liveries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Very impressed with your Barnum, Larry, especially the loo window monogram. Brilliant. I built a few Jidenco/Falcon Brass kits some years ago and know what a challenge they can be. One of these was the SR 'W' class 2-6-4T, the instructions seemed to stop halfway through the build, as if the designer had given up. The last two lines were:- "Assemble and fit brakegear". "Assemble and fit valve gear"(full stop !) . On your Brake 3rd i notice different gangways either end, will the open gangway be the end of a rake ? Also, have you altered the bogies to accept Bachmann narrow tension-locks ? Cheers, Brian. This post has been promoted to an article Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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