RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 5, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'm thinking of using some Comet side overlays for an old Airfix B set to change it to the E141 diagram similar to my K40 conversion I did previously here.They were bowended so it should be an easy job. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/25814-comet-gw-k40-brake/page__p__262158__fromsearch__1#entry262158 Can anyone point me in the direction of any photos of the prototype please.I know some of these ran singly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 5, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'm thinking of using some Comet side overlays for an old Airfix B set to change it to the E141 diagram similar to my K40 conversion I did previously here.They were bowended so it should be an easy job. http://www.rmweb.co....__1#entry262158 Can anyone point me in the direction of any photos of the prototype please.I know some of these ran singly. Can't find any in my 'new book'! Maybe Pendon have something? 36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 E141 was a bow-ended non-corridor suburban composite, formed in 4 coach sets with brake third diagram D109 and originally allocated to Birmingham, Chester and London. The brake composite of which some examples ran singly was E147 which was flat ended.and of a different length and contour to the Airfix body. You might want to think this one through ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 There's a single photo of an E141 in Russell's GW Coaches Appendix, vol 1. btw, the thread title may be a bit misleading because, as I'm sure you are aware, E141 is a 9 compartment compo. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 6, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have some paperwork with a list of Brent to Kingsbridge B set composites.One is given as Diagram E141 of lot 1405 [1930] number 6443 which tallys with my Michael Harris book.I don't know where this list came from but it may have been the GWR E list of some years ago now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I suspect a typo somewhere. According to notes I have 6453, an E140 brake compo, was in a Kingsbridge B set paired with 6454. That set, apparently, went to Launceston later. The info came, IIRC, from the Cornish Special issue of GWRJ and an article by John Lewis who knows a lot more about this stuff than I ever will! The GW numbering of composite coaches was chaotic in the extreme and at one time used the first number left vacant when older stock was scrapped. 6443 was, as Rob says, an E141 composite. The block of numbers for Lot 1405 ran from 5431 to 6443 but omitted 6435, possibly because that number had been given to an absorbed coach that had not yet been taken out of service. A set of Comet sides for an E147 may get you out of trouble but do not use the E140 to mount them!. According to the good old Railway Observer a B set comprising 6838 and 6850 was split up in about 1956. 6838 worked the Moretonhampstead branch and 6850 the Kingsbridge but for how long I have no idea as the RO never was much good at telling the full story! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 7, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2011 I suspect a typo somewhere. According to notes I have 6453, an E140 brake compo, was in a Kingsbridge B set paired with 6454. That set, apparently, went to Launceston later. The info came, IIRC, from the Cornish Special issue of GWRJ and an article by John Lewis who knows a lot more about this stuff than I ever will! The GW numbering of composite coaches was chaotic in the extreme and at one time used the first number left vacant when older stock was scrapped. 6443 was, as Rob says, an E141 composite. The block of numbers for Lot 1405 ran from 5431 to 6443 but omitted 6435, possibly because that number had been given to an absorbed coach that had not yet been taken out of service. A set of Comet sides for an E147 may get you out of trouble but do not use the E140 to mount them!. According to the good old Railway Observer a B set comprising 6838 and 6850 was split up in about 1956. 6838 worked the Moretonhampstead branch and 6850 the Kingsbridge but for how long I have no idea as the RO never was much good at telling the full story! Chris Thanks Chris for the very detailed reply even though it seems my plan has been blown out the water.I might still build one anyway. My notes tell me 6456 was paired with 6453 as Kingsbridge branch no 2 on the E140 so maybe thats another typo. I just fancied doing a loose coach to tack onto my Comet E129 b set for extra traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 You could try a corridor coach. I've just been looking at the Williams/Reynolds book on the Kingsbridge branch. Helpfully the page is not numbered but there is a photo by the late Michael Hale dated September 1958 showing a GW corridor second, still in blood and custard, coupled to the branch train which equally helpfully is concealed beneath the station awning. Strengthening a B set with a corridor second occurred on the Looe and St Ives branches according to photos and if you only have one corridor coach you can have non-working gangways! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 You could try a corridor coach. I've just been looking at the Williams/Reynolds book on the Kingsbridge branch. Helpfully the page is not numbered but there is a photo by the late Michael Hale dated September 1958 showing a GW corridor second, still in blood and custard, coupled to the branch train which equally helpfully is concealed beneath the station awning. Strengthening a B set with a corridor second occurred on the Looe and St Ives branches according to photos and if you only have one corridor coach you can have non-working gangways! Chris Sounds like it would have been a through coach from Paddington rather than a strengthening coach. The other option is that it was a stock move, for coaches that seem to have been stored on the branch following summer Saturday usage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 My notes tell me 6456 was paired with 6453 as Kingsbridge branch no 2 on the E140 so maybe thats another typo. Williams and Reynolds note the Kingsbridge No1 set was 6453 / 6454. No 2 set 6968 / 6969. They also note that 3 other B sets were recorded on the line but were unbranded including the set that had 6443 in it. Single coaches noted as 6278 & 6284, both composite brakes. If you have the second edition of their book this and more info is on page 90. Chris, I think the image you are talking about is on p64 of the book. There seems to be a B set + van in the bay as well. And further to my earlier post about the through coach, if the time for the train associated with the picture is correct then it's not a through coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 7, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2011 Williams and Reynolds note the Kingsbridge No1 set was 6453 / 6454. No 2 set 6968 / 6969. They also note that 3 other B sets were recorded on the line but were unbranded including the set that had 6443 in it. Single coaches noted as 6278 & 6284, both composite brakes. If you have the second edition of their book this and more info is on page 90. Thanks Kris.Any idea what diagrams 6278 and 6284 are please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 Just had a look to see if I can find out the diagrams of those coaches Robin but have had no joy. Going to be an E something as they are listed as composite brakes. Looking at the images (numbers are not clear on the coaches so this is an assumption) they are non corridor coaches and are not bow ended. Oh the fun and games the GWR stock managers must have had trying to work out what was what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 7, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2011 Just had a look to see if I can find out the diagrams of those coaches Robin but have had no joy. Going to be an E something as they are listed as composite brakes. Looking at the images (numbers are not clear on the coaches so this is an assumption) they are non corridor coaches and are not bow ended. Oh the fun and games the GWR stock managers must have had trying to work out what was what. Found them Kris,Diagram E167 built in 1954.The last ones built.Perfect for you to model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 7, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2011 That explains why I could not find them, Russell only goes up to E166. As you say rob, they would be perfect for my timescale. Hmm now who does them in 2mm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Kris, I have the second edition and have it open at p.90. On it I find some oddities. The B set quoted as 6335/6336 may well be 6313/6335 as that was Kingsbridge 1 for a time. What 6336 was I know not without trawling through Harris, which is upstairs and I am downstairs! It also quotes 6443/6444. What 6444 was - as for 6336. I think we have established that 6443 was a suburban compo. 6640/6641 is one of two B sets to diagram E135 which had a long association with the Looe branch. I would be inclined to have the sodium chloride handy when using the Williams and Reynolds book. It says among other things that the last steam-hauled passengeer train was on 10th April 1961. Elsewhere in the book there is a photo of a steam hauled passenger train taken four months later. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2011 Kris, I have the second edition and have it open at p.90. On it I find some oddities. The B set quoted as 6335/6336 may well be 6313/6335 as that was Kingsbridge 1 for a time. What 6336 was I know not without trawling through Harris, which is upstairs and I am downstairs! It also quotes 6443/6444. What 6444 was - as for 6336. I think we have established that 6443 was a suburban compo. 6640/6641 is one of two B sets to diagram E135 which had a long association with the Looe branch. I would be inclined to have the sodium chloride handy when using the Williams and Reynolds book. It says among other things that the last steam-hauled passengeer train was on 10th April 1961. Elsewhere in the book there is a photo of a steam hauled passenger train taken four months later. Chris I would agree that some of the information in the book is dubious. I have half a suspicion that some of the stories that are told relate to the Kingswear line rather than the Kingsbridge line. It's a shame that none of the photos in the books on the line give clearer views of the coach numbers to help clear things up. That having been said Russell shows a picture of 6969 at South Brent (1952) on, so it seems a reasonable assumption that this made it down the line. Other Coaches found on the line (according to Russell) include E138 - No 6087, D121 No 4084, C46 No 4717 C32 No 3941. These are likely to have been through coaches from London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 You need to consult the Coaches Working Book, and no, I don't have the one for South Devon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 8, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2011 You need to consult the Coaches Working Book, and no, I don't have the one for South Devon. I am keeping my eyes open for one but have yet to find any . Do you know if Kew have any? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Don't know, a look in my copy of Cliff Edwards' "Railway Records" didn't show it. However isn't there a book in Xpress Publishing covering South Devon. Plus I believe there are some details of coach working on the Kingsbridge branch on the GWR elist at http://finance.group...roup/gwr-elist/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted February 9, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2011 Don't know, a look in my copy of Cliff Edwards' "Railway Records" didn't show it. However isn't there a book in Xpress Publishing covering South Devon. Plus I believe there are some details of coach working on the Kingsbridge branch on the GWR elist at http://finance.group...roup/gwr-elist/ The xpress book is for the Torbay line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I'm thinking of using some Comet side overlays for an old Airfix B set to change it to the E141 diagram ... Just a thought as I've been looking at going down the same route to produce a South Wales valleys rake of D109, C61 & E142. My Airfix B set coach already scales to 9'4 1/2" wide, just a little over width. Do you have a problem with clearances or does the extra width not matter? PS What was the difference between diagrams E141 & E142? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 E142 has the first class in the middle, E141 at one end. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 There is a new book due from Wild Swan soon by David Geen and Martin ? who have been researching the Brent/Kingsbridge workings for years (mainly for his Brent layout). From discussions with David, it contains very detailed information on coach workings, numbers etc. He has many unpublished photographs obtained from the local population. As coach guru for the Great Western Study Group he has a wealth of information. If you are at Scaleforum this weekend, David has a stand there and could possibly help. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted May 13, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2011 There is a new book due from Wild Swan soon by David Geen and Martin ? who have been researching the Brent/Kingsbridge workings for years (mainly for his Brent layout). Mike Wiltshire That book has been in the waiting for years.I can't wait for it as it will be will be fabulous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Scaleforum this weekend? I must have missed seeing that in the news? Expo EM is on this weekend, but David is not listed. I thought his next outing down South was for GW Expo in June. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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