37605 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I have one of these I have often wondered exactly what these wagons were used for. I have tried looking it up on the internet, but all i can find is a photo of them with a class 37 carrying some mineral or other. Could anybody tell me what type of load they usually carried, what areas they normally would operate in and I asume they were introduced around the same time as the standard 16t wagons, but when were they withdrawn form general use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm sure other will jump in with more detail, but in brief, they were introduced as iron ore tipplers (i.e. you turned them over to empty them). By the mid-70s you'd see the vacuum braked versions (MSV) on stone trains out of the Westbury-area quarries. Think they ended up in engineer's use as spoil/used ballast wagons. They had a higher load capacity than the 16T minerals, so they were good for stuff other than coal, which is relatively lightweight. You'd tend to see them in long rakes, rather than ones and twos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Its supposed to be an iron ore tippler but the body and chassis are both out. Hornby are introducing a proper one sometime this year though its a hand brake only version. R6505 BR 21 Ton Iron Ore Tippler - Post-TOPS http://www.Hornby.com/2011/wagons-wagons-packs,119,HIN.html Hornby have also sold the old wagon as a Sand Tippler. Parkside do a proper vac braked 26T iron ore tippler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 See BR Vac Brake Iron Ore Tipplers Stone and engineers – 47 photographs http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/c370029.html Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 By the mid-70s you'd see the vacuum braked versions (MSV) on stone trains out of the Westbury-area quarries. Think they ended up in engineer's use as spoil/used ballast wagons. ZKV Barbel, lasted well into the 90s As EWD says, they were designed for iron ore, which in the 60s and part of the 70s would come from the quarries (mostly located along a belt running from Oxfordshire into Lincolnshire, also in Cumbria) and running principally to steelworks. The vac braked ones were certainly used from Banbury to S Wales, not sure about any other flows The Hornby wagon as seen here has an (extremely unlikely) wooden underframe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Its supposed to be an iron ore tippler but the body and chassis are both out. Annoyingly the Hornby body is kinda plausible (at least to my eye!) even if not exactly right - but that wooden framed chassis is just....well...something from another era entirely. In my yoof I used to re-chassis these with Red Panda chassis bits (and i'm pretty sure I have a pile of Hornby bodies somewhere to do more!) to build ZKV "Barbel's" with but that's a bit pointless now that Parkside do a proper one - not that I'd have much use for them with what i'm modelling at the moment anyhow! Hornby are introducing a proper one sometime this year though its a hand brake only version.R6505 BR 21 Ton Iron Ore Tippler - Post-TOPS http://www.Hornby.co...ks,119,HIN.html ISTR Bachmann have done one (unbraked) also. Presume the Hornby ones are just artwork/mockups there, as each end looks different whereas the real ones don't? At least Hornby don't do shockers like this one now anyway.....oh wait, is that their venerable TTA painted up as if it's a Carless TUA on that link?... Bless em... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hornby are introducing a proper one sometime this year though its a hand brake only version. R6505 BR 21 Ton Iron Ore Tippler - Post-TOPS http://www.Hornby.co...ks,119,HIN.html Parkside do a proper vac braked 27T iron ore tippler. Looks like someone has mistaken '27' for '21' at Hornby. I think the unfitted ones were 27T capacity and the fitted ones were 26T (tin hat ready to be shot down) and they were 9ft or 10ft wb, both being 16ft 6in over headstocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Looks like someone has mistaken '27' for '21' at Hornby. I think the unfitted ones were 27T capacity and the fitted ones were 26T (tin hat ready to be shot down) and they were 9ft or 10ft wb, both being 16ft 6in over headstocks. No you are right about 26T fitted, I was going from memory and got it wrong. There only seems to be that 26T fitted one in the Parkside list. The Iron Ore tipplers have more leaves in the springs to cope with the extra weight than you see on a 16T mineral for example. Its an odd chassis Hornby have, wooden solebars with what looks like the fitted vacuum gear and lever from a Vanwide! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Its an odd chassis Hornby have, wooden solebars with what looks like the fitted vacuum gear and lever from a Vanwide! Well it does appear under their Vanwide also Not sure if it's better or worse than the previous chassis under these two, it had steel solebars but a left hand brakelever Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When these wagons were turned over to aggregate traffic as well as the flows from the Westbury area they were also used on flows from ARC Tytherington in Gloucestershire. In the late 1970s we had flows to Oxford Banbury Road, Bicester London Road, Theale and Redditch amongst others. These trains were tripped in and out of Tytherington from Stoke Gifford Downside (Bristol Parkway). The Theale flow was 41 wagons, the other flows about 36 wagons IIRC. There were also some of the longer MTV (Zander?) wagons in some of the formations. The Tytherington and Westbury sets used to be sent to Barton Hill wagon shops for PPM. there being a nightly trip from/to Westbury to effect the change over of maintenance set. The wagons were popular in engineers use particularly on ballast cleaning jobs, as it proved difficult to stop the engineers overloading the smaller 16t minerals. Hence the holes cut in the sides of the ZHV wagons to prevent overloading. With a ZKV Barbel wagon you have a greater carrying capacity in a 20' long wagon so they were less likely to get overloaded. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 The MSV tipplers were also used from Peak Forest one aggregate flows to Leeds Balm Road and Bletchley in long 30+ rakes through the 1980s until they were withdrawn from around 1988. I have a slide of Railfreight 47050 at Stockport on a Bletchley train formed of 44 loaded MSVs. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 The MSV tipplers were also used from Peak Forest one aggregate flows to Leeds Balm Road and Bletchley in long 30+ rakes through the 1980s until they were withdrawn from around 1988. I have a slide of Railfreight 47050 at Stockport on a Bletchley train formed of 44 loaded MSVs. Cheers Paul Before enough of the tipplers were converted to vacuum-brakes, the Peak Forest trains had 'fitted heads' of 16t Minfits- these were prominently (though crudely) branded '3/4', so that the loading staff didn't put 26t in them (photos in one of the Larkin books). Out of interest, were any of the higher-sided 9' tipplers ever converted to vacuum-brakes? All the photos I've seen are of the lower-sided 10' wheelbase type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Out of interest, were any of the higher-sided 9' tipplers ever converted to vacuum-brakes? All the photos I've seen are of the lower-sided 10' wheelbase type. I doubt it Brian - the reason the Lot 3091 wagons were vac converted was because they'd been built with clasp brakes (at least, part of that Lot had, which kinda suggests the intention had been designed in. The rest had the push brakegear on a 10ft wheelbase) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Two iron ore traffic flows on which they were used in the 60's and early 70's were High Dyke to South Durham Iron & Steel at Hartlepool and Northamptonshire to Lancashire Steel Corporation at Irlam via the peak district. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 That answers my question as to why I have 2 Hornby MSV wagons that look completely different Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted August 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2012 I got a whole rake of numbers of them from Bristol Parkway, using Parkside kits, I buy one every few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 That answers my question as to why I have 2 Hornby MSV wagons that look completely different The original Hornby 'MSV' had the slight problem of only slightly resembling one, even under poor light..The sides were OK, but the spacing of the vertical stanchions on the end were way out, and the least said about the underframe, the better. The newer unfitted 'Ore' tippler is much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 So the Hornby is no good? Is a kit better? If so which one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted September 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 27, 2012 The more recent Hornby version is much better (although only an unfitted so far, I think) or Parkside's PC63 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 It is a shame that Parkside do not do an unfitted MSO chassis to go with their low height body. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 HI ALL The MSVs were used latterly on coal slurry to Methil power station. Regards Arran I have one of these I have often wondered exactly what these wagons were used for. I have tried looking it up on the internet, but all i can find is a photo of them with a class 37 carrying some mineral or other. Could anybody tell me what type of load they usually carried, what areas they normally would operate in and I asume they were introduced around the same time as the standard 16t wagons, but when were they withdrawn form general use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Well I've now got 4 of the Hornby msv/zkvs as they look ok to me from a distance but I'm thinking I might get a kit to try though I don't think I will ever get a rake of 36 a few on a short engineers train will do. Or I might just leave them dumped in an overgrown engineering siding to rust away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Bachmann used to do a Tippler, not sure if they still do though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Bachmann used to do a Tippler, not sure if they still do though. Bachman do their version of a High unfitted iron ore tippler (MSO) alas it is let down by being on a 16t mineral chassis! Current prices the Bachmann one can be sourced from Liverpool at about £20 for 4 0r Hornby at about £20 for 3 Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 29, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 29, 2012 I'd stick with the Parkside models - pretty good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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