GWR Collett 3rd Diag C46 (70') flat ends

[Mallard60022]

Just a quick heads up so you can have a laugh.
Decided to get to this stage of the build before progressing with the remaining 59 hinges (one fitted to see if it looked OK which it does - honest).
Comet Models kit with usual excellent etchings, but using Frogmore (from MJT) hinges; lovely etch which I can recommend.
Why do them now? You may well ask. I reckon the coach body as it is now has rigidity and can withstand my blunderings so I don't bend those lovely sides.
This is the longest coach I've ever seen . It needed 24 droplights (did those first and strangely rather enjoyed it) and has 20 doors (hence the 60 hinges, although I might just do the lower ones if this build was for me).
If you would like a bit more info on this build there is a Blog on it.
36E

Edited November 22, 2016 by Mallard60022

[gwrrob]

A man after my own heart. A b****y pain to do but well worth the effort.Its best to do them when the sides are flat though. I too use those hinges and the whole Frogmore range is excellent.

[Mallard60022]

Hi Rob. Hope you are well.

I have considered this hinge fitting business and decided this time to make a 'cradle' to support the coach body in a vertical position with one side open so that I can get the hinges in and get the iron into the inside. Sounds like a bit of a faff and probably is now that I've started the build, but I was concerned that the fitted hinges would impede my joining of sides to ends which (at the moment) I do on a sawing square; don't ask

In retrospect I find could have fitted these hinges (or all but the end sets) whilst the sides were still unattached and just put a vice, but hey ho, one learns as one goes along with these mysterious GWR thingymabobs. I shall try the 'retrospect' method on the next one!

I'm sending you a P.M. about some Frogmore stuff.

 

Phil @ 36E

[coachmann]

A b****y pain to do but well worth the effort.Its best to do them when the sides are flat though.

I guess you are joking seeing as forming a tumblehome with hinges in situ would be....er....well...awfoo difficult.

 

That is one serious peice of work Phil. With 42 pieces of glazing at the last count...that alone would put me off......

[gwrrob]

I guess you are joking seeing as forming a tumblehome with hinges in situ would be....er....well...awfoo difficult.

 

 

I actually meant on the flat surface as opposed to the box cradle Mallard suggested.The Comet sides here already have the tumblehome formed so fitting the hinges in situ is'nt a problem.

[Mallard60022]

I guess you are joking seeing as forming a tumblehome with hinges in situ would be....er....well...awfoo difficult.

 

That is one serious peice of work Phil. With 42 pieces of glazing at the last count...that alone would put me off......

 

Thanks Coach. I dread to think how this will get painted in that wonderful 30's GWR livery and lining, OH that lining. I believe the new owner to be an experienced painter and liner of coaches (he has a 'fleet' of more than a hundred pre grouping coaches) so it will get done.

I know what you mean about droplights!!!!! Fortunately I don't have to glaze these little beauties. A total of 53 'window' panels to do on this one!

Methinks I am probably at the experience stage you were at just before you built your first coach kit (and I've built, well part built, quite a lot now).

I'm also understanding why you tend to just do the lower hinges on your build

How's your blood and custard fleet going by the way?

I've just 'acquired' a Hornby Gresley 7 Compt Brake in B & C and EM converted bogies. They are good looking beasts even before any mods are done.

P @ 36E

[coachmann]

There were lots of ideas swimming around in my head by the time I commenced the move away from painting from around 2002. Quick fit hinges and etched in droplights were adopted from 2004.

 

The blood & custard fleet is well, er...back in blood & custard. That brief interlude with BR maroon was impulsive and its been a boring fortnight respraying and lining ten (I think) back to B&C.

[Mallard60022]

and its been a boring fortnight respraying and lining ten (I think) back to B&C.

 

Oh that we mere mortals could aspire to respraying, relining and redetailing 10 coaches in a fortnight. Wow!

I am sure that generally it must be some sort of deeply embedded memory of how we remember seeing stock that causes this need to have the 'right' livery, so I totally understand your return to B & C. Otherwise it would be a preference for a particular era and the relevant liveries.

Like many others I am very much a 1958 to 1963/4 modeller but mostly remember the almost ubiquitous maroon and the SR green (good old SR, had to be different) and those lurid red (but more often very 'weathered') departmental vehicles. However, I do have an excuse to use B & C!

ATB Larry.

P @ 36E

[coachmann]

It was to do with period more than anything else, hence the move back to blood & custard. This way I returned to reality and the certainty that I was modelling 1954-1955 as it actually was instead of a late 1950's situation at Greenfield that didn't ever exist.

 

I realize that being pedantic is regarded as daft in some circles, when in fact it doesn't half simplify things. Anyway, please keep this GWR coach thread alive with more coaches.

 

 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

It was to do with period more than anything else, hence the move back to blood & custard. This way I returned to reality and the certainty that I was modelling 1954-1955 as it actually was instead of a late 1950's situation at Greenfield that didn't ever exist.

 

I realize that being pedantic is regarded as daft in some circles, when in fact it doesn't half simplify things. Anyway, please keep this GWR coach thread alive with more coaches.

 

I like pedantic; it's a great term, describing many of my best mates in railway modelling and maybe yours truly?

Daft for being a pedant - nah!

Daft is when:

you buy Steam Backtrack March 2011 as there is a long, enjoyable and detailed article about the last Castles at Hereford in it and then start dreaming about a layout of Hereford circa 1960/64;

in the same mag you see a picture of a NER Q7 at Consett circa 1963 and think uuuuummmm I used to go spotting there when visiting my gran and gramps in 1961/62;

you go to Ross on Wye and see where the old station used to be, visit the library and look at some archive and start dreaming about a layout based on the Ross area circa 1960;

you wander down the road from where I now live and start dreaming about a layout based on 36E Thrumpton in about 1962;

I go almost anywhere there was/is a railway and start thinking about basing a layout on that area;

one goes on and on and on and..........!

Sorry. Back to the subject.

If this C46 part build goes well the new owner presently has four more GWR coaches he wants doing including two dining vehicles, so some other bits and bobs should appear, if a little slowly.

If it is of interest, this particular modeller has over 100 GWR coaches and needs to update a large number of them, so he feels he does not have enough time to do all the work himself; hence my 'intermediate builds' which provide him with coaches to 'finish off' to his requirements.

P @ 36E

 

P.S. Saturday 16.10. 59 hinges in approximately 90 minutes. Apologies for small pic but it is a 70' coach.

Time for tea now

[Mallard60022]

Monday march 7th.

Prepped the floor pan and sole-bar assembly for drilling the holes to take the wire 'supports' for the full length (thank goodness) step-boards. Felt marker and dividers scribing on a measured position on the sole-bar. Centre punched poked the guide holes and then drilled 0.5mm.

Folded up the sole-bars (steel bending bar).

Soldered up the floor/solebars.

Fitted the frame cross bracing parts and tidied up the soldered bits.

Cleaned up the insides (where the hinges and drop lights had been soldered in with a drill and burr), soldered in the end steps and washed the body shell.

Offered up the floor/frame to the body shell and burnished the outsides.

More detail on the blog.

36E

[gwrrob]

Looking good Mallard,don't they scrub up well in brass.The hinges are very good and well worth doing. Don't mention bump stops though.

[Kris]

Those hinges are worth it. I don't bother with them in 2mm.

[coachmann]

Don't mention bump stops though.

Never understood why these weren't on the back so they could be pushed out as bump stops. I put indian ink in mine.

 

[Mallard60022]

Arghhh Rob. If they are really prominent then maybe! I might just give them an outing on one build just to see how they look; after all it is only another set of holes and some very small bits of wire

Kris, hinges in 2mm would definitely be a challenge!

 

Coach - yup, agreed, but the ink idea is a vg one; thanks.

 

If I am disciplined tomorrow, (no, not that sort of disciplined ) I should get the sole-bar steps fitted, the undercarriage bits sorted and possibly the roof; (maybe Thursday for that).

As the bogies are sprung and EM (although that isn't a problem), I probably won't do those 'till Thursday (Going to NRM Wednesday for research) and I wont do the white-metal bogie sides until last as I glue those on and they need setting up really carefully so that they sit square to the etched bogie sides (I use a simple jig).

 

Thanks, P @ 36E

[Mallard60022]

Tuesday 8th. a.m.

Completed the underframe as far as required + plasticard 'backs' to the battery boxes.

Pic 1 shows the corridor side with those lovely big windows.

Measured (three times ) the roof and cut and fettled to fit.

Used the Comet roof plan, checked the era and selected the relevant vent marks and used as a template ready for drilling for vents.

That is one looooooonnnnngggg roof!

 

Having a lunch break and going to do first grass cut of 2011 before returning to the drill!

P @ 36E

[Adrian Wintle]

Are you going with two ventilators per compartment or one? If I remember correctly, the second ventilator was removed fairly early - around the time that the coaches were repainted into the first plain chocolate and cream scheme (they were originally in the pseudo-panelled scheme).

 

Adrian

[Mallard60022]

Are you going with two ventilators per compartment or one? If I remember correctly, the second ventilator was removed fairly early - around the time that the coaches were repainted into the first plain chocolate and cream scheme (they were originally in the pseudo-panelled scheme).

 

Adrian

 

Thanks for the heads up on the vents. One vent as per pics in Russel and the chosen era.

P @ 36E

[Jeff]

Never understood why these weren't on the back so they could be pushed out as bump stops. I put indian ink in mine.

 

This was a rational decision.

 

Pressing out a half etched hole from the back, as with any other pressed out rivet detail on an etch, works for those modellers who are sufficiently well versed in working metal so that they avoid distorting the front face. Where rivets (or coach door bump stops) are pressed through and not done carefully in terms of having a sufficiently hard support to the front face of the metal, or some means of ensuring that the same force is used at each point (such as a rivetting tool) then it is all too easy to spoil the side through distortion.

 

Our view was that the discriminating modeller who seeks absolute fidelity would happily drill through and solder in a short length of wire, then file back the face carefully so that all such features are rendered to exactly the same depth, finishing with a stiff wire brush to take off any sharp corners.

 

We reasoned that those satisfied with more ordinary standards (we ourselves chief amongst them) would be quite happy to see a surface mark suggestive of a door stop. So the half etch had to be on the outside for the sake of the lazy majority.

 

Same thought process applied to hinges and why we did not incorporate them with matching slots in the door part lines. This would force the builder to include them whether he wanted that level of detail or not.

 

I suppose a lot depends on the aims of the modeller and etch designer. If you want a museum quality model you can spend many happy hours gilding the lily. If you want a fleet...

 

I have around 200 coaches assembled into 8 or 9 coach rakes down to suburban 3 coach sets. No hinges on any of them and I can't say I ever notice the lack of them. Too busy watching the loco. Valve gear and balance weights are hypnotic and draw the eye. Door stops are just sooooo boring.

[Penrhos1920]

No hinges on any of them and I can't say I ever notice the lack of them. Too busy watching the loco. Valve gear and balance weights are hypnotic and draw the eye. Door stops are just sooooo boring.

 

Ah, but Gods Wonderful engines don't have outside valve gear to detract from their beautiful coaches.......

[Mallard60022]

The 'beauty' of coaches from Comet (some other products to a similar spec. are just about available ) is the fact that you can build them & then enhance them if you want to! I think the fact that there must be thousands of Comet's products gracing layouts including Pendon, Kingstorre, Stoke Summit et al, as well as all those others in lofts, rooms and sheds, is testament to their buildability.

I've got a pair of another firm's Gresley coaches to tackle some day and they look beautiful in etch but I think are going to be a real b****r to build; just too complex for a duffer like me

Here is the completed to requirements C46 Collett 3rd (apart from bolster springs).

I'm going to have to build a small diorama to set these coaches in.

P @ 36E

[Coach bogie]

On the hinges debate one cheat I have used for years (it works for me) is to use Slaters microstrip cut into tiny lengths and superglued in place. It sounds flimsy but, once painted and varnished, they stay put. Despite several house moves in the last twenty years none have come off. Comet, BSL, Geen, 247, Brass or aluminium, I apply the same technique. I can hinge a 70ft coach in about ten minutes. I model the 1930's where the droplights were mahogany. I paint them first and glue them in place after the coach body has been painted and lined. Again none have dropped out yet.

 

Just an alternative approach to speed things up. As Jeff said it can get sooooo boring.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[coachmann]

I spent 30-odd years at the painting end of coach production and so when I decided to move into the construction side I was able to start from a blank piece of paper and incorporate detail I considered essential without adding much to the building time. Much time and money was spent experimenting, which probably drove poor Adrian Rowland mad seeing it was he who had to transfer the ideas onto CAD and make them workable.

 

Speeding up production and eliminating things that would be a pain in the butt when faced with doing things on an almost daily basis were important (to me). It is a totally different ball game from building coaches for a hobby where time has no limits.

[Mallard60022]

On the hinges debate one cheat I have used for years (it works for me) is to use Slaters microstrip cut into tiny lengths and superglued in place. It sounds flimsy but, once painted and varnished, they stay put. Despite several house moves in the last twenty years none have come off. Comet, BSL, Geen, 247, Brass or aluminium, I apply the same technique. I can hinge a 70ft coach in about ten minutes. I model the 1930's where the droplights were mahogany. I paint them first and glue them in place after the coach body has been painted and lined. Again none have dropped out yet.

Just an alternative approach to speed things up. As Jeff said it can get sooooo boring.

Mike Wiltshire

 

Thanks Mike. I might try that if you don't mind.

Phil @36E

[Clearwater]

Hello

Rather than create a new topic, I thought I’d add to this one.  I’m tackling one of these as well.  A quick question. For the grab rail that goes on the roof, the roof diagram doesn’t show where they go.  Is there rule of thumb or other suggestion where they should go?  From pics I’ve seen, the comparatively thin lines tend not to be clear.

 

thanks

 

David