Is Withernsea unique

[Pennine MC]

... I'd welcome any photos people have of the station along with information such as what goods were brought into the station.

 

I doubt you'll find much on the 'Net but my library contains three volumes of 'Railways In East Yorkshire' (Martin Bairstow, self published), Hutton Press' 'The Railways of Hull & East Yorkshire' (Michael Thompson) and 'Lost Railways of Holderness' (Peter Price), SLP 'Past and Present' 25 East Yorkshire (Hill and Vessey), which would probably repay looking out for s/h. I'm not averse to having a trawl through these to see what info I can pick up, but can't promise when. You can take it as read though that general vans/opens would be prominent, I dont think there'd be much in the way of special traffic. I dont think it routinely had a pilot, it probably wouldnt be too much of a stretch to justify one although much less likely post-DMU

[Three Cocks Junction]

A similar set up existed at the north end of Darlington with a twin-sided extension tacked onto the end of the main island platform block. The lines were lifted some years ago but the platform might still be visible. Then there wasa single-sided version at the Merthyr end of Brynmawr for the Nantyglo line.

[Katier]

just measured one of the scale drawings I was kindly sent.. from headshunt/turntable to end of the sidings (where the track finally goes double on the DMU video) is 2400 ft!!!

 

I make it longer than Birmingham New Street!!!

 

 

 

Incidently platform 1 seems to be around 510 feet, platform 2 slightly shorter and platform 3 is almost exactly 450 ft. Not sure how that translates into train lengths in 1910, 1924 or 1957 (the three periods I'm torn between )

 

 

 

[Pennine MC]

I make it longer than Birmingham New Street!!!

 

That's the catch with rural locations, they can be very sprawly as land was cheap

 

Incidently platform 1 seems to be around 510 feet, platform 2 slightly shorter and platform 3 is almost exactly 450 ft. Not sure how that translates into train lengths in 1910, 1924 or 1957 (the three periods I'm torn between )

 

In round figures, LNER non-corridors were generally (AFAIK) 51ft or 54ft long, BR suburbans were 57ft, as were the DMUs used on the line

[mikemeg]

Thankyou Mick - This project is fast becoming my number one priority. I have a lot of happy memories from visiting my grand parents there so its a bit of a tribute to them.

 

Mick has been a great help but I'd welcome any photos people have of the station along with information such as what goods were brought into the station. One plan shows a gas works beside the line which implies that received ?coal? and I believe there was a loading dock too.

 

Would Withernsea have had a shunting engine of some sort (I'm guessing stabled at Hull and brought down? ).

 

So you too have benefitted from the staggering amount of information which Mick Nicholson has on the old North Eastern Railway. He's the guy I referred to in my post about the 7mm model (actually Wallsea - see earlier posting).

 

You asked for photos so you might like these. Two are obviously pre-grouping and I really can't give you a better indication of date than that, though I would think they are probably both of the Edwardian era.

 

The third is clearly much later with its LNER (BR) standard plate and angle signals.

 

Hope you like these old black and white pictures as much as I do - they are irreplacable.

 

You asked whether a shunting locomotive would have been based here or outstationed from Hull. There was a daily pick-up goods train between Hull and Withernsea, which picked up/set down wagons at intermediate stations, so any shunting would likely have been done by that locomotive. From memory there were watering facilities at Withernsea but I can't remember any coaling facilities.

 

As for traffic, there would certainly have been coal for domestic use, and for the gas works, and both open wagons and vans for local agricultural traffic, as there was for the intermediate stations along the branch.

 

The hey day of this branch, and the Hornsea branch, was probably the mid to late 1930's, when evening excursions would be run as well as the weekend excursions. All sorts of motive power was used including some of the ex-H&B 0-6-0's. I have no records of any big engines on the Withernsea branch, though they were certainly allowed by its high Route Availability, but I do have a picture of a 1959 troop special to Hornsea being hauled by a V2.

 

Strange that the RA of this branch was higher than the RA of the main line from Hull to Doncaster, though the Hull to Selby main line was RA9.

 

I can just remember, as a four year old, being taken for a 'day at the seaside' to Withernsea by my father, around 1952, and watching the loco crew turn their locomotive. I guess it was probably one of Botanic Gardens' D20's though it could have been anything which would fit on the 46' 6" turntable. During the mid 1950's Hull Botanic Gardens had some Fowler 2-6-2's which did see service on the branch, along with the same shed's C12, G5, L1 and, from 1956, V1/V3 tanks.

 

Goods trains would have been hauled by Hull Dairycoates J21's, J25's, J39's, Ivatt 4MT's, Standard 3MT's, Austerities and, more latterly B1's though almost anything available could have been used.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[James]

This could be an interesting project!

 

Kaiter, what period will you be choosing?

[John_Hughes]

How fascinating to find two old postcards both with spelling errors on them!

 

(And a fascinating thread in general, actually!)

[The Stationmaster]

How fascinating to find two old postcards both with spelling errors on them!

 

(And a fascinating thread in general, actually!)

 

Lots of 'British' postcards from that period were actually printed in Germany so spelling errors are quite possible (and no, I'm not going through my several hundred dating from that period to see how many errors I can find).

[Katier]

This could be an interesting project!

 

Kaiter, what period will you be choosing?

 

 

 

 

Not 100% sure as of yet but I fancy pre-grouping but rolling stock is proving to be a HUGE issue.

 

Based on lner.info and what I could glean would be based at Hull and potentially used on a line such as Withernsea I came up with the following possible Locomotive list.

 

D17 (on Excursions)

 

F8

 

G5

 

J71 (Goods/Shunting)

 

N8 (Trip ?Passenger?)

 

N10 (Freight)

 

 

D20 (probably post 1923)

 

D23

 

I may of course be miles off the mark but that's what I came up with for either pre-1923 or somewhere around late 20's or early 30's.

 

1950's sounds similar with a few larger loco's (B1 is good actually as my room mate is a South African so she wants 'Springbok') and couple of Standards.

 

Problem I'm currently facing is a major availablity of stock issue which is causing a lot of doubt as to whether I can do the project justice. Locomotive wise :-

 

 

 

7mm - can do without a problem.

 

4mm - I believe is ok.

 

2mm/n-gauge - Can only find the B1, possible a standard class, Union Mills D20 and Worsley A8.

 

A8 was definitely used in the 50's but was in 4-4-4 form in my preferred period.

 

 

 

 

Space wise I THINK I can squeeze in a 4mm version if I leave off the 2 parallel sidings opposite the SB ( beyond the exit of the station platforms ).

 

2mm I can do I'm sure including the parallel sidings.

 

7mm I would LOVE to do but simply don't have the space

 

 

 

 

Hence I have a problem

[pH]

There may well be others (I haven't a Scottish map)

There was a platform like this in Glasgow Central. Here's a photo showing it:

The tank on the right is standing in the platform which (IIRC) was platform 11A. The tank on the left is leaving from platform 12. Whatever the number was, I believe it has been removed as part of the current changes to add the third line between Central and Paisley Gilmour Street. At the time the photo was taken (1966), it was only used very rarely for passenger trains. Again IIRC (it was a long time ago), its main use then was for parcels.

[John_Hughes]

Lots of 'British' postcards from that period were actually printed in Germany so spelling errors are quite possible (and no, I'm not going through my several hundred dating from that period to see how many errors I can find).

 

Of course, I'd forgotten the German element in this.

 

The same was true of North American cards, right up until the unpleasantness in 1914 - '18, and the quality of new offerings after that date fell through the floor until Canadian and US printers got up to standard, which wasn't until the mid 1920s in some cases.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Looking at the oldest OS maps of the station, it would appear that the station building on Platform 3 was in existance in 1855, although the canopy seem a later addition. The building and track layout of Platform 3 is clearer on the 1891 map, and the convalescent home is shown as the Queens Hotel. By 1910 the extended canopy has appeared, and the bay platforms have been added beyond the original platform ends. Platform 1 appears to be a siding on the 1891 map. Platform 2 line and the platform extension itself have been built on a strip of land adjacent to the Pleasure Gardens which looks to have possibly been in railway ownership at 1891.

 

The building opposite the station, shown on the postcard by the convalescent home is still there I think. The site of the station building is now the police station.

 

I never visited there when the line was in use, but the layout seems quite logical given what appear to be the railway boundaries on the maps. It was possible to add two platforms and what were effectively backing out roads (sidings 1 and 2) to cope with excursion traffic without buying any more land.

[micknich2003]

The line to Withernsea was originally single, Withernsea itself became double line sometime in 1904, this is when the station was enlarged and the additional connections were brought into use. A new signal box was provided, this contained a 70 lever M&H No16 frame of which, and when inspected by the BoT on 17 Sept 1904 12 were spare. By 1925 only 44 levers were in use. The attached OS map is presumably c1910.

The existing frame was relocked and shortened to 40 levers in Sept 1960. Mick Nicholson.

[Katier]

wow well over 100 years of railway, didn't realise it lasted that long!!

[Katier]

Haven't decided on scale or if I want to do a compromised version or a less compromised/longer term project.

 

I have a space which is literally a shelf top, which will be a perminant home for a layout.

 

 

 

The right side will hinge down when not in use. I may use it as support for a cassette system rather than sidings or a traverser. The swing up section blocks a cupboard when its up so would probably spend more time up than down.

 

OO gauge I came up with :-

 

 

the curved siding is curved to give a bit extra length and obviously replaces what I assume were stabling/headshunt sidings on the full plan.

 

N-gauge I came up with :-

 

 

I do have a major rolling stock problem with this one due to n-gauge being poor for pre-grouping NER / just post grouping LNER stock... but then maybe that's just an incentive to scratchbuild?

 

Alternatively I use the space for something different and commit to Withernsea as a long term project using 20ft of baseboards built exhibition style. i.e. 4ftx18inch boards which normally would be stored somewhere then erected temporarily to operate the layout. OO Gauge.

 

Pro's and Cons I can think of :-

 

OO Gauge on Shelf

 

Pros

 

• Decent availability of suitable stock.
• Good for scratch building
• Always there to operate.

Cons

 

• Compromised layout
• 4 coach maximum
• Might not do a very interesting station justice.

N Gauge on Shelf

 

Pro

 

• Good Train lengths - approx 6-7 coach maximum.
• Full track plan, all be it squashed.

Con

 

• Poor availability of stock will challenge my scratch building.
• No 'run' into the station.
• Might not do a very interesting station justice.

OO (or EM/P4) Gauge 'Exhibition Style.

 

Pro

 

• Much better layout might even be able to get a bit of a curve in.
• Better train lengths ( target 5 coach excursions )
• longer term project

Con

 

• won't get full use of the layout.
• Still slightly compromised layout but likely to do the plan more justice.
• Little run in into the station throat.

 

 

Thought and opinion are more than welcome. If I do the exhibition one then I'd like to do a 'Hull Docks' inspired 7mm layout on the shelf - if I can fit one in - lol.

 

 

[Katier]

Whoops just noticed a slight mistake on the OO layout. Easy done as it's so complete there. I think I'd use two double slips instead of the 'paralell running' setup of two points, one single slip and a double slip.