sulzer27jd Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Can anyone shed a little light on the following? Single track branchline with a small, two siding yard. The turnout into the yard is operated from a groundframe. A facing point lock is required and a catch point is in place. Will the catch point be operated from the ground frame? Given the above - will the ground frame contain three levers or is there further requirements? Thanks in anticipation. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Usual 'it depends' caveat, but typically the trap point would be worked by the same lever as the main line points. Three levers - release, points, FPL. The release lever is unlocked by Annetts Key or the train staff, or electrically from the box, reversing that releases the other two levers. There might be another point lever for the second siding, but I'd suggest it would more likely be a hand lever in the yard. There are plenty of variations though ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 The catch would probably be connected to the same lever as the siding access switches hence two levers is fine. Ground signals could also be used, one out, one in, (2 more levers) or hand signalling employed. The Ground frame would be locked with the single line token. This could be in the form of a tray on the side of the frame if a tablet; or a lock mounted on a lever for the staff or key token. A seperate lever may be used with the lock to release the frame or the facing point lock lever may be used.. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer27jd Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Very helpful - thanks J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merfyn Jones Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 The catch would probably be connected to the same lever as the siding access switches hence two levers is fine. Ground signals could also be used, one out, one in, (2 more levers) or hand signalling employed. The Ground frame would be locked with the single line token. This could be in the form of a tray on the side of the frame if a tablet; or a lock mounted on a lever for the staff or key token. A seperate lever may be used with the lock to release the frame or the facing point lock lever may be used.. Pete As described, the simplest , a 2 lever set up . Lever 1 unlocked by the key token allows the FPLs to be withdrawn, lever 2 works the points into the yard and the trap. Note, there was a FPL on the trap as well. Blaenau Ffestiniog No. 1 Ground Frame (now gone) A similar arrangment exists at No.2 Ground frame which has 3 levers, the points being No.2 and the trap No.3. Merf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWSlack Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 The three frames on the Keith & Dufftown Railway have two levers each. Lever 1 is both the king lever and the facing point lock, released by the Annet's key on the One Engine In Steam train token. Museum Ground Frame at Chappel & Wakes Colne has four, only three of which are in use. Lever 1 is the King lever, released by a local token that is released from a further 2-lever frame at Church Farm Level Crossing, near Marks Tey. Lever 2 is the facing point lock. The up Engineers Siding at Shenfield had three levers, no.1 being the King lever, released electrically and no.2 the facing point lock. It isn't there any more. So, "it depends". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 2, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2011 And Shotwick Ground Frame was actually a panel ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Another two lever frame here John, I took these at Gloucester a short while ago.... it's used for shunting from the goods loop into the yard... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Has anyone els got any photos of different types of ground frames? cheers neil.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Has anyone els got any photos of different types of ground frames? cheers neil.. Have a look at Flickr, the 'British Railway Signalling' Group, and search for 'ground frame' there is quite a selection there, https://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=ground+frame&m=pool&w=462645%40N22&page=3 cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 ...and, as another option, especially if the original line was a Light Railway or one of those companies who favoured 'economic' FPLs, then perhaps just one lever :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
class"66" Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Thanks guys,wil have look now... cheers neil.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAustin Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 On catch points, as a general rule, if it is there to protect the main line, it will be operated by the turnout lever. If it there to stop a runaway down a gradient, it would have its own lever. Mark Austin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Another two lever frame here John, I took these at Gloucester a short while ago.... it's used for shunting from the goods loop into the yard... Apologies for resurecting an old post, but in the example quoted, Is the key withdrawn from the machine after " release" then put in the lever frame, or is the turning of the key followed by the "release" that unlocks the frame? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The 'release' enables the key to be removed from the Key Release Instrument (KRI). The key is then inserted into the lock attached to the lever-frame and turned to open that lock and thereby unlock the levers. The key can not be removed form the lock and returned to the KRI until the levers in the GF have been reset to normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The 'release' enables the key to be removed from the Key Release Instrument (KRI). The key is then inserted into the lock attached to the lever-frame and turned to open that lock and thereby unlock the levers. The key can not be removed form the lock and returned to the KRI until the levers in the GF have been reset to normal. Many thanks. Does the electric release also give eome special indication to the remote signalmen? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Not usually AFAIK. In a mechanical signal-box then usually it was done by lever in the frame or a Key Control Instrument (KCI) on the instrument shelf . In either case, then once the release has been given the lever/KCI was reverse-locked until the key had been replaced in the KRI. If the release comes from a panel, then there may perhaps be a 'release given' indication light on the panel, but I'm not familiar with such an installation to say for certain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2015 Gloucester would be to one of the standard WR design release circuits and the installation date suggests to me it would have been solely by a rotary switch on the panel - which is the case with GF release switches on Gloucester panel according to photos available on the 'net. There are two indicator lights on such switches - one of them indicates if the release is locked by a route set through the points and if the points are fully detected their position will show on the panel (but they might not be fully detected in reverse when worked by ground frame). The reverse position light should come up once the key has been withdrawn (or possibly when the release circuit has proved). All the information about how the things work at the release instrument and ground frame is available in the pictures Rugd posted - the release instrument cabinet has labelling to show how the key is obtained and when it is locked or free and the lever leads on the actual ground frame show that Lever 1 is released by Key C (that will be a pattern C key) and that lever No.2 is released by Lever No1. The releases work as back locks thus Lever No.1 cannot be replaced to normal while No.2 is standing reverse and the key cannot be withdrawn from the frame while Lever No.1 is standing reverse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Gloucester would be to one of the standard WR design release circuits and the installation date suggests to me it would have been solely by a rotary switch on the panel - which is the case with GF release switches on Gloucester panel according to photos available on the 'net. There are two indicator lights on such switches - one of them indicates if the release is locked by a route set through the points and if the points are fully detected their position will show on the panel (but they might not be fully detected in reverse when worked by ground frame). The reverse position light should come up once the key has been withdrawn (or possibly when the release circuit has proved). All the information about how the things work at the release instrument and ground frame is available in the pictures Rugd posted - the release instrument cabinet has labelling to show how the key is obtained and when it is locked or free and the lever leads on the actual ground frame show that Lever 1 is released by Key C (that will be a pattern C key) and that lever No.2 is released by Lever No1. The releases work as back locks thus Lever No.1 cannot be replaced to normal while No.2 is standing reverse and the key cannot be withdrawn from the frame while Lever No.1 is standing reverse. Thanks both. I could not see anywhere on the images of the levers where the key went in, or identify the "lever leads". Am I looking in the wrong spot? This the question about the role of the key. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestPines Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I could not see anywhere on the images of the levers where the key went in, or identify the "lever leads". Am I looking in the wrong spot? This the question about the role of the key. The lever leads are in the second picture: they are the plaques attached to each lever which describe its function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Thanks for that. I was looking for some wires ! So do you actually take the key out of the machine and stick it into lever 1 somewhere? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yes, the key has to be inserted in the lock box on the lever. The frame in post #5 shows the lock box clearly, fitted to the blue lever just above the quadrant. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2015 Thanks for that. I was looking for some wires ! So do you actually take the key out of the machine and stick it into lever 1 somewhere? Regards There will be a lock 'somewhere' in which the key is inserted. The interesting thing about the Gloucester frame is where that lock is located - it took some finding but is very obvious once you know what and where. Look very carefully at teh top picture in Post No. 8 and if you look down on the near side of the staging you will see something painted bright blue, that is the Annett's Lock with the cover over the keyway closed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2015 This pic shows the more common Reading method of fitting an Annett's Lock on a ground frame - it is immediately to the left of the blue (FPL) lever which it releases as the lead shows (not sure if it will enlarge so clearly once reduced but it might) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Bingo. I thought the blue in the top pic in post 8 was a piece of rubbish. The other image at the foot of the lever helps (post 24). I guess I was expecting something on the lever itself like in post 5. . Thanks all guys. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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