PDK Kits Diesel Brake Tender

[Mallard60022]

Good afternoon.

I've been searching the Forum & www for info on Diesel Aux Brake Tenders as I have a PDK Kit to complete. I'd like some proto pics to view if possible. Of course, a kit built example would be useful to see for details as the instructions are a bit sparse. I thought there had been a thread about building one of these but I can't find it (that's not unusual for me as you know ).

Also if anyone has built one I'd be grateful for any tips!

Many thanks, Phil R @ 36E

[Porcy Mane]

That nice Mr Bartletts site might be a good place to start...

http://paulbartett.z...com/braketender

And from Robert Carrol:

http://www.flickr.co...cwp/2154553546/

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

Type in "brake tender" to Flickr and it'll turn up some results...

Even a search through RMweb will turn up something...

http://www.rmweb.co....__1#entry430831

So; What livery are you going to use? Green, blue, rust?...

Diagram no.? Take your pic from the attached table. Hope you can read xls spreadsheets.

 

DBT-Dia-NumAmmended.xls

Then get back to me and I'll see what I've got.

Porcy
PS As more info has come to light even the spread sheet now needs amending. (It's decades since It was compiled) but it's still accurate enough for most.

 

Edit: Amended spreadsheet added

[Mallard60022]

Thanks Porcy. How did you find that RMweb lot? I tried as I knew I'd seen something but I'm obviously not searching correctly.

I'm going for late green or early blue as that's my era; Gresley Bogies batch, Diagram3448 (having looked at your database); EM.

Really appreciate your time.

ATB P @ 36E

[Mallard60022]

Just for a bit of more 'public' info here is an extract from my Christmas Pantomime Blog; oh yes it is!!!

 

12/12

Now you may think/know that I just build coaches and some vans to a part completed stage (even my own). Well I'm pleased to say I build other stuff and never quite complete them either. You should see my pile of metal bits that could be loco's, plastic/metal bits that might be wagons (and the odd plassi Kirk Coach) and even card buildings.The list is almost endless.

So, what do we have creeping towards that disaster area that I refer to in a comic manner as the work table?

It is a D.A.B.T. to [eventually] couple to one or other of my 'fleet' of EM DCC diseasels. I wanted the PDK one with Gresley Bogies just to keep me interested.

I've seen some posts about these somewhere [see above post - worth having a look at Porcy Main's link to see a 'finished article']* so I have a point of reference. Arthur K also has a pic or two on his ER pics site too; very useful, thanks Arthur.

I shall tomorrow take the bits and bobs out of the pretty blue and white box and use the pin hole machine to allow you to also be tempted by this neat little....... (well, what do you call it; a wagon?)

For now I must go to earn a few more groats to feed my addiction.

ATB

P @ 36E (and no I have not been drinking).

 

13/12. a.m.

As promised:

what you get for the pennies (and a bit more if you include the Fox Transfer set).

Are those Comet Gresley bogie side castings I wonder?

P

p.m. Prepped the body (trying to resist the temptation to try and eat it as it looks like a chunky Milky Bar) by:

opening up the holes for lamp brackets, handrails/wheels, grab rails;

filing the base flat;

cleaning up the buffer end cut out slots.

Soldered up the bogie etches and what are called the bogie bases (the bits attached to the body on to which the bogies are fitted); no problems with this as they are well produced etches.

Ditched the wheels as they wouldn't pull out to EM without going wobbly! Replaced with a fine set of EMGS 14mm coach wheels; lovely and smooth and free running.

The Gresley bogie castings are very clean. I just had to open the rear holes ready for the bearing 'cups' on the sides of the bogie etches. They are a spot on fit too. Epoxy tomorrow.

Have received quite a bit of info and found Mr Bartlett's lovely pics (very useful). Another Forum site has turned up the info so that I can identify exactly the Diagram I will have and relevant marking/lettering/numbering. Great stuff.

Pics of the above tomorrow.

P

 

15/12/11

Spot the differences!

Note the larger holes in the 'body' prepared for the buffers. These holes sit behind the buffer beam as you will see soon when I've started building the thing up!

I would like to mention here the superb article to which I have been referred, in the DEMU group's magazine and written up by a DEMU member. Also the superb set of photographs in Mr Bartlett's collection; his BT set are used in the DEMU article.

I'm seeking permission to link to the DEMU article as it is excellent with loads of info and evocative pictures.

I have decided that this kit could be built in around an hour by a determined modeller. If painted and detailed, perhaps a total of three hours including drying time.

P

 

What I have decided since opening this PDK box is that I must have been an even more ignorant bu***r when I was spotting in the 70s and 80s as I never gave these things a second look. In fact I don't think I gave anything (except locos, a few parcels wagons, semaphores and mechanical boxes at Wellingborough, and what went on in sheds and Works) any extra attention.

Maybe it was the 'hit and run' style of shed bashing trips with the Inter City Railway Society that always seemed to take place at a huge rush?

P

* If my 'finished article' looks half as good as the illustrated build (even if there were apparently a few errors) then I'll be best pleased; especially with the weathering.

[Mallard60022]

Started fitting up in a 'dry run' style!

 

Unfortunately the thing died as you can see; probably suffocated due to the pegs cutting off any air supply

 

I'm not going to progress this any more today as I want to read up the DEMU article and some other stuff kindly posted by RMweb colleagues, This, hopefully, will give me lots of detail information.

I've already seen that the steps supplied do not appear to be those fitted on the real thing (well not in service anyway).

P

[Porcy Mane]

Seems like you can model quicker than I can sort through transparencies’ and negs.

Pics Of B946012-3

As photographed the two DBT’s B964102 and 103 had had recent works refurbishments (Evidence small round plate above builder’s plate) and carried the later 1960’s livery. SYP but applied full width, lower case letters for “Diesel Brake Tender”, centrally painted number and, although difficult to see, red drawbeams.

From a photo I have showing a line up of ex works tenders at York it would seem bogie guard irons were fitted to Lot 3448 vehicles from approx .B964078.

Although I don’t have numbers at least three, (and possibly a good few more.) Thornaby allocated DBT’s were painted with Day-Glo yellow warning panels in 1968 as part of a High Visibility tests. A number of Sulzer twos and EE type one and three diesels were similarly painted.

First livery carried was Brunswick Green with no WP and black drawbeams.

At least one lot 3448 tender was delivered to Thornaby with a Grey painted top panels. It was paired with class25/1 D5169.

I have read a couple of sources that state Brake tenders carried a brown livery at some point. I have never come across any evidence of this but would be happy if anybody could prove to the contrary.

I think this theory probably originated due to the number of photographs that show DBT’s in a totally rusty condition. I certainly have a few colour phots and trans that show this. The Brake tenders that worked up and down to Consett were particularly “Brown”. This was partially due the “fall out” from the steelworks (Everything else in Consett was brown too) and the fact the brakes were on virtually all the way down the bank from Consett to Tyne Yard.

 

 

HTH

Porcy

[Mallard60022]

Brilliant Porcy thanks. That second pic is so useful and shows me that I'm going to have to get brake release access holes bored and shaped in the sides. They are very apparent. (Maybe I could cheat and use little black, painted on rectangle shapes ?)

I'd forgotten they were used on the Consett runs. This was some time after I stopped visiting Grandparents in Consett [they died] (1962; I never saw the 37s doing that run).

P

[Trainshed Terry]

This is a PDK kit that is a on going project.

 

(Note to self must get transfers.and tidy up the paint work)

 

 

Terry

[Porcy Mane]

Brilliant Porcy thanks. That second pic is so useful and shows me that I'm going to have to get brake release access holes bored and shaped in the sides. They are very apparent. (Maybe I could cheat and use little black, painted on rectangle shapes ?)

 

Or you could halve your work.

For some reason B964088E had only one release cord hole in 1964. It was at the brake wheel end when the wheel was at the left. (I'm assuming the PDK instructions make it clear that the brake wheels were opposite each other and not handed?) Unfortunately I only have a phot of one side so don't know how many holes were on the other.

Porcy

[Mallard60022]

 

Or you could halve your work.

For some reason B964088E had only one release cord hole in 1964. It was at the brake wheel end when the wheel was at the left. (I'm assuming the PDK instructions make it clear that the brake wheels were opposite each other and not handed?) Unfortunately I only have a phot of one side so don't know how many holes were on the other.

Porcy

 

Ta mate. Nope the instructions are a little sparse, however the 'milky bar' has the brake wheel shaft holes at the same end, as required.

 

Terry - good one thanks. You illustrate the exact sort of end step required rather than the sophisticated etched one in the kit. What screw link did you use mate?

P@ 36E

[Trainshed Terry]

Thank You P@36E for that.

 

With reference to the coupling I thing it was a "Romford" coupling but I can not be sure as it is over a year ago the kit has got to this stage of construction.

 

The front step was a bright idea that I had, and it was a length of 0.45 brass wire cut a length about of 15 mm and bent it to a squire "U" shape, then bent to a right angle. Two holes where then drilled in the brass frame 5mm apart roughly in the stretcher of the bogie on the right as you look at he front of the kit, did a guess at the placement of the step, solder into place. Then very carefully cut a length of wire to make the step and soldered that in place.

 

I took the inspiration of the step from two images in the following book. "Diesel Heyday, Sulzer Diesel in the 1960s by Euslin Bruce." (ISBN 0 7110 1862 6) published by Ian Allen. I would think that the book is out of print now, as there two very good images of brake tenders being used on lengthy trains containing 16ton mineral wagons.

 

I hope that is of help. to you.

 

Terry.

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Phil,

 

Looking good and I have to give you top marks for sheer variety. Will this one make the finish post with all these lovely photo's to work to?

[Mallard60022]

Thanks Rob. Butterfly, that's me!! Strange isn't it that something as mundane as a brake tender can unearth such interesting info and such evocative pics (Mr Bartlett is a genius); fascinating.

I know I should get a life but I was certain this kit would not take me too long and I needed some respite from big, long coachy things that need care and attention. I'm just joining that long list of blokes that have loads of things on the plate spinning sticks at one time (not Coachman I know).

ATB P @ 36E

[Mallard60022]

Fitted the 'lamp irons' (hacked staples) & grab rails as required for my chosen diagram. Have not glued the buffers in place as I will paint those before doing that and when the body & chassis are finished (inc. painting).

Likewise the brake hand wheels that will be painted before fitting.

Unfortunately when 'posed' with the 20, it sits far too high and so I think 12mm wheels will have to be fitted. I might also have to fettle the bogie tops just a tad but clearance with these and the buffer beams is an issue.

Thanks to 'insider' knowledge' I have done a dentist on the under/insides of the milky bar for EM wheel clearance.

I have considered fitting Hornby Screw Links (cheap and cheerful as spares [X5069W] compared to £4.00 for a pair of metal ones).

I have now got to narrow down my choice of tender within the Diagram and go for one for which I have a pic for reference (if possible), or go 'a bit generic' if I can't be absolutely certain of 'individual' details.

I hope like me you think these things have a certain charm in their simplicity and utilitarianism?

Having reached this stage in the 'build' I can recommend this kit as a thoroughly enjoyable exercise. There are a few little adjustments required, otherwise it's a beauty and well within the capability of a keen 'beginner', providing an unusual item for the layout if you model the era(s) during which they were used.

Tonight (again, sad person that I am as I should be having a good drink) I shall trawl through the info submitted by 'friends' and identify the LMS bogie type(s). I'll also remind myself (from previous postings) of the other 4mm BT kits available as I really fancy another now having seen pics of two in trains (Just heard a groaning sound from the area in which my wallet is resting).

 

P

[Mallard60022]

Unfortunately when 'posed' with the 20, it sits far too high and so I think 12mm wheels will have to be fitted. I might also have to fettle the bogie tops just a tad but clearance with these and the buffer beams is an issue.

 

Note to any prospective builders of this very nice kit.

I've just replaced the wheels with very nice EMGS 12mm Bog Cart wheels; just the job and with an additional washer between bogie and bogie plate all now functions well. Had to clip a bit off each guard iron but that has made hardly any difference to the appearance.

I'm going to paint it before the end of January.

P

[Rob Pulham]

I'm going to paint it before the end of January.

 

Looking forward to it Phil

 

We have just about finished the garage conversion - Chris is just grouting the last tiles as I type this. So more painting/finishing will be forthcoming from the Pulham household in the very near future.

[Mallard60022]

17 days later and I have moved a spider in the booth and given the milky bar and bits a quick splodge of Halfords Grey Primer (for plastics).

Sorry about naff light; just stuck the thing on the window sill . Anyway it is not really an elegant bit of kit is it?

I've got ten days to get it finished/painted/ admired! No hope

P @ 36E

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Phil, not that I want to give you any excuse to miss your gool but technically you have it painted now

[Mallard60022]

I am running in the BT as you can see Thinking of fitting a DCC sound chip too

 

I have also had a go at doing a 'work worn', pre 'patches painted where there were rusty/damaged bits', detail and decals then weathering, job; (not the bogies at the mo; they are just Ronsealed). I'm not that happy with this but I'll wait till I've seen it with Testors' (?) finish and the Shackleton touch.

So yes I will be trying the Mr. Shackleton method of weathering to try and get 964088 to look like it could have been in approx 1963/4, just before it got part yellow ends and still had black drawbeams/bufferbeams. Having to guesstimate this as I can't find a pic of this BT in Green (or blue for that matter).

I've decided I will be doing another of these in blue (with full yellow ends?) for my later era running. I have lots of reference for this one thanks to an article in the DEMU mag; (thanks lads for that). There are also the examples kindly posted/linked above (thanks again).

I have painted the brake handwheels but won't fit them or the couplings, brake pipes etc. until I've finished the end steps (yet to be made), decals, brake release hand holes, 'patchwork' painting and main weathering. After I fit these I'll finish the weathering and try out the Testors or other final finish.

 

P@ 36E

[Porcy Mane]

Having to guesstimate this as I can't find a pic of this BT in Green (or blue for that matter).

 

 

You have a PM... and a pic...

 

HtH

 

Porcy

[Southernman46]

See there's now a RTR one available in 4mm from Britannia Pacific.

[Mallard60022]

That's typical Anyhow, thanks matey.

Looks pretty good to me, but details like handrails, brake wheel(s) and lamp irons are 'missing'. This is not necessarily a bad idea *as the new owner can fit these (and other additional details according to Diagram) to their requirements. Some might prefer a more robust brake wheel for example?

Cost is very fair as well IMHO considering the cost of kit, then build/prep/ painting time involved.

*In fact I wish I had not fitted my lamp irons before painting/decal attachment ; could take the things out I suppose and add the yellow panel then replace them more carefully?

If I wasn't doing EM I'd go for a couple more of these from this outfit as I think this looks like a bargain.

As mine will be EM and the kit is straightforward, it is probably easier to do the thing & bogies myself. However please note my comment about choosing to fit smaller diameter wheels to my effort. (Suppose I could ask the builder if he/she could do these things within the price if I provide the EM wheels?)

Cheers P @36E

[Southernman46]

Aye - typical - Just finished the bogies on mine too - the bogie side casting son my kit were really poor (loss of detail and loads of flash) so I have fitted a "frankensteins' monster" arrangment of the brass bogie frames with the sides from a pair of Bachmann thompson bogies stuck on - not strictly kosher but it passes muster - I've also fitted 12mm wheels as 14mm made it look too high.

[Mallard60022]

Well, apart from some weathering, I have at last almost finished the 'Beast'! I'm going to shunt it around in this guise at the Retford MRS on 16th and 17th Nov. It may be the only thing that runs knowing my luck

Sorry about the quality of the pics; no excuses!

Decals are Fox, Lamps by Springside (you can't see the rear red lamp).

The strange stripey effect is to go under the awaiting grime in an attempt to make this look like some of those inthe DEMU photo collection ( thanks for that really excellent info chaps).

I know there are some 'details' I have not done and I think this DBT may have had turn under but hey, it's mine, I built it and so what?

Would I build another? No, I'd buy mine from Britannia Models; the range is excellent and all in all, inexpensive for what you receive RTR considering cost of kit, time to build and extras required (decals etc.)

I've ordered my 'blue'one! It will be a prototype style with LMS bogies and light weathering + SYPs

Hope you like it?

P

[Sulzer Bear]

I received my kit from PDK (togheter with a D36 and a D40) yesterday.

Yes, I'm doing Scottish region, and brake tenders were no common practice, but I like the looks and sometimes they would run over the ECML or to Dumfries on heavy trains in the 60's. (I found photographic evidence in the past but I can't remember where I saw this)

So I started building mine after going trough this thread.

Concerning the ride height of the model I noticed a couple of things.

 

1. The half etched folding lines on the bogie frames are situated in such way that they sit on the outer corner of the fold (see the half etched "detail" on the brake shoes)

 

I decided to keep these lines on the inside of the bend, that reduces the bogie height by the thickness of the brass sheet, brake shoe detail sits on the inside that way, but they are not very vissible anyway when the bogie sides are on.

Another point is that the distance between the bearings is reduced by twice the sheet thickness, that's about 1mm, so the axles need to be shortened by that, or shorter axles (25mm) need to be sourced.

These are found on most continental models, and 2mm in diameter, so 14mm wheels can be fitted on these (I build in EM gauge, so new axles are needed anyway)

These axles work with finescale wheels set at EM gauge, for coarse scale wheels set to EM these will be too short (who considering EM gauge would use coarse scale wheels anyway?)

 

2. On the cosmetic bogie sides sits a tab on top, in the center, when this tab is left in place it lifts the body by another 1.5-2mm, and then the buffers and ride height will certanly be too high

 

So these tabs need to be removed.

To avoid the tender to have a wobbly ride I soldered 2 small pieces of brass cut from the fret at a line transversely going trough the pivot hole (where the screw goes trough) on one of the bogie retaining plates.

That bogie then only can swivel lenghtwise while the other bogie can swivel in all directions. (When using 2 washers on top of a bogie these pieces must be doubled as well)

 

With these 2 steps I have a good ride height with the 14mm coach wheels which these bogies should have.

I checked with Bachmann, Heljan and Hornby locomotives, thes have slight differences between themselves, which is absolutely prototypical, between a new and turned down to the limit tyre on the prototype is a 3" difference in diameter, so the buffer height, can differ by 1.5" alone by this reasson, the load is another factor that influences buffer height by the same factor on the prototype, therefore a 1mm height difference in model sounds acceptable to me.