Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

With the sidings sorted (see previous post), where does everything end up?

There are movements from the Mendips to the Isle of Grain, from Newhaven to Tunstead, from Southall to Acton

 

Here's a fictitious take on it.

 

Edited February 22, 2016 by southern42

[southern42]

This splits up into "My wafflings" and a Signalling question.  You've been warned. 

 

 

Still on Brentford freight 2011, I've been finding out where the key sites are and the routes.  I then decided to make a few maps - to aid my memory.
 
The first one was easy enough - out to the Mendip quarries.  I've only put in a few of the locations as listed on RealTimeTrains but also added surrounding locations to give the scale of things.
 

 

 

 

This example, which ran today - 653A 0348 Colnbrook Foster Yeoman to Merehead Quarry - stopped at Southall Yard c. 1¹/₂ hrs with loco having to run round its train before heading west.  It arrived at the Quarry 4 hours 56 minutes late.  

 

Contracted info from RealTimeTrains: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H68399/2016/03/03/advanced

 

Article on pathing (most revealing to someone like me who is just finding out about freight traffic): "Freight fights capacity constraints," 09/06/2015, in Rail,
http://www.railmagazine.com/operations/freight/freight-fights-capacity-constraints

 

 

Southall - 59001 by Wibble45, on Flickr

59001 arrives via Southall East Jn and runs round it's train  It then heads down the branch for Days Aggregates, Brentford Town, 4/11/14. 

More and pics of Seacows, Southall water tower and shed at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/77541583@N00/with/15688273396/

 

 

A slight, but important, diversion at this point re the SIGNALS in the above photo.

 

I've mainly seen the reverse side of these on photos and videos, and train crew using the telephone.  What I'll need to know is:

(i) Are they applicable to the GWRd track plan? 

(ii) The procedure to follow for traffic (which will be freight and passenger tour traffic - locos and ECS, and the Concrete Cow passenger tour in January 2012 in case I decide to model that, too, since there is quite a bit of footage of it and from it - but without a through route, of course).

 

The temptation is to assume what is what, but I shall resist it as I'll want to do it properly!

 

 

I'm now working on some maps darn sarf and oop norf.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Polly that signal dates from the early 1990s resignalling at Southall, prior to that (from the 1968 resignalling) it was an elevated position light with no route indicator the only difference being that on the 1968 layout you couldn't get to the branch from just there (that was something I put back in in my layout plan (which is basically what is there now).  The 1968 signal accorded with normal WR practice of that time, the 1990s signal accorded with standard Signalling Principles for the date at which the design was frozen.

 

Prior to 1968 I'm fairly sure it was a semaphore - small arm with no indication of route reading only to the branch sticks in my mind for some reason but it might have had a mechanical route indicator.

Edited March 3, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[southern42]

Polly that signal dates from the early 1990s resignalling at Southall, prior to that (from the 1968 resignalling) it was an elevated position light with no route indicator the only difference being that on the 1968 layout you couldn't get to the branch from just there (that was something I put back in in my layout plan (which is basically what is there now).  The 1968 signal accorded with normal WR practice of that time, the 1990s signal accorded with standard Signalling Principles for the date at which the design was frozen.

 

Prior to 1968 I'm fairly sure it was a semaphore - small arm with no indication of route reading only to the branch sticks in my mind for some reason but it might have had a mechanical route indicator.

 

Thanks, Mike.  That sounds a good enough excuse to have it on GWRd.

Semaphores for 1961.  I'll look into that again, later, as the track plan has changed since I first considered these.

 

 

In the meantime, I've been doing a bit of homework and have identified a 3-light signal, a shunt signal and a stencil route indicator (I see the letter 'B' on this one).  Could be an expensive buy for a working set but, since it would be the signal, may be worth investing in.  Anyway, it has made the wishlist!

 

[Shunting signals in OO gauge: #4]

 

Route maps to follow.

[southern42]

Just a couple of route maps* complete the picture for GWRds freight possibilities.  I keep discovering more sites and destinations but so far they are in the same areas or along the same routes.  And there's more than enough to populate GWRd with a few freight trains.

 

South east

 

North of Brentford. [EDIT See post below for a Corrected map]

This includes landfill at Scunthorpe.  It looks as though this was used from 2013 instead of Appleford, if anyone can confirm this.

 

 

The interesting bit is trying to match rolling stock to model versions (if any!) especially when it comes to liveries, top of the wishlist items being the Foster Yeoman O&K JHAs and EWS 59204 'Vale of Glamorgan'.   Beyond that is the challenge of weathering, then unbranding and next-generation-weathering some RMC JGAs, all bar one: such as this, still wearing 'RMC' on a mixed rake heading from Angerstein to Brentford in the video below @ 45 secs in.

 

 

And a thought crossed my mind - do I have one rake of each type with removable loads or two rakes, one empty and one full which I'd be able to run at the same time or return one after the other?  I think it will probably boil down to cost, having enough room to store them, and what I can get hold of.  What I actually want will be an entirely different matter!  What annoys me is that last year there were loads of JGAs on the Used stands at various exhibitions and I didn't buy any.  Sound familiar?
 

I won't have anywhere near enough track to even suggest a Mendip Jumbo train, but I could run a Dumbo train - small with big eyed ears. 

 

And what an excuse to have a short train!  Just 8 JHAs on the 6Z74 Southall Yard - Didcot Yard, 5th November 2011.  Cut that down to 3 or 4 in GWRd Yard!

 

* Freight type, sites, routes and train formations from various sources including RMweb, miscellaneous websites, YouTube, and official railway documents which are available online (and a few books and magazines in hard copy!).

 

Next up, some 2011 train movements.

 

 

 

Edit: insert missing word.

Edited March 9, 2016 by southern42

[The Stationmaster]

'xcuse me Polly but Appleford is south of Oxford, in fact it's only just north of Didcot

[southern42]

Thanks, Mike.  I wondered why it looked odd.  In fact, it turns out the Appleford line was out of scale!

I drew my diagram over a map (Googlemap) until I decided the diagram was getting too big for my small computer screen.  So I reduced the size of the map and the lines accordingly - but forgot about the Appleford route, hence the Didcot 'dot' fell over Oxford and, me not thinking when I added the town names, didn't see the error!  Well spotted. 

 

Corrected map below.

I re-made a larger scale drawing of the Appleford route via the Didcot and Reading triangles, and then reduced it to fit - not that you'd know on this small scale or even that the route ends on sidings to the west of the line, or even that there is a rake of flats with yellow containers on the satellite view!

 

 

 

And showing the original map

This time with an additional map layer indicating 'Appleford'.  The slight shift of some place names is to put them over their respective 'dots'.  I set the diagram background to 50% transparency until I'm ready to convert the drawing to an image. 

 

Lunch time now. 

 

[Andrew P]

All clever stuff young Poll, hope you and Ray are keeping well.

[southern42]

All clever stuff young Poll, hope you and Ray are keeping well.

 

Thanks, Andy.  Keeping well - not ready for the Appleford binliner yet!

[southern42]

How will it all work?.

 

I've skimmed through a couple of railway documents for anything that relates to Southall-Brentford but the way these documents are set out, frequently referring back to other documents, it's going to be a bit of a jigsaw puzzle to put it altogether.  At least, it's only for a shed and a short branch line and like any searching, it's just a matter of sifting out a few gold nuggets from a pan of gravel and takes time.

 

Taking something like this (from Network Rail: Route Specifications 2011 – Western):

 

SRS J.01 Paddington – Heathrow Airport Junction / Route specification description

 

The former Southall Diesel Multiple Units (DMU) maintenance depot to the south of the GWML between 9m.02ch to the east and 9m.57ch to the west is now used by a private railway operator.

 

Southall West sidings are also accessed at 9m.02ch to the east and 9m.57ch to the west.

 

The Brentford branch, which accommodates the West London Waste terminal and a metals recycling plant, is only accessible from the west end of Southall West sidings at 9m.57ch

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/uploadedFiles/networkrailcouk/Contents/Publications/Route_Plans/Route%20Specifications%202011%20Western.pdf

 

And tweaking it something like this:

 

SRS (Somewhere along the Railway System) J01 Paddington to Great West Road Jn / Description of Route

 

The former Great West Road Diesel Multiple Units (DMU) maintenance depot to the south of the Great Western Main Line (GWML) [stating distance from Paddington Fiddle Yard] is now used by a private railway operator.

 

Great West Road sidings are also accessed from Great West Road [stating corresponding distance from Fiddle Yard as the layout here differs from the prototype].

 

The Branch [Name still needed!], which accommodates a West London Waste terminal and a metals recycling plant, is accessible from Great West Road [stating distance from Fiddle Yard] and Great West Road sidings [stating distance from Fiddle Yard].

 

and I've got myself the beginnings of a GWRd Operator's Handbook. 

Not that anyone will read it, of course. 

What? Did someone say, "Read"?               

 

 

Other info at hand comes from Network Rail Network Specification 2011 – Western

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/uploadedFiles/networkrailcouk/Contents/Publications/Route_Plans/Network%20Specification%202011%20Western.pdf

And Timetable Planning Rules 2016 which states (for example):

 

Southall to Brentford Goods / Single Line

Only one train may operate on Single Line at any one time.

 

Only two trains may be sent to or be at Brentford Goods at any one time. No shunting may take place within Brentford Sidings until all movements on the Single Line have stopped.

 

Tweaked, it might go something like this:.

 

Only two trains may be sent to or be at Branch Goods at any one time. No shunting may take place within Branch Fiddle Yard including Sector Plate until all movements on the Single Line have stopped.

 

 

Since GWRd is about running trains, and since I'm currently looking at 2011, that's what I've started with.  With just two depots at the end of a truncated branch line, GWRd Branch Fiddle Yard (as far as I've thought about it) will handle a couple of trains. 

 

Whereas, from 1961 to 1964, town goods and dock offer the chance to run three trains to cater for motor, rubber and food factories as well as town goods (coal and market produce) and dock traffic.  Food vans would be easy - they more or less look the same whether full or empty.  Coal went back and forth in either direction so could be loaded or empty.  Other open wagons might need more consideration, but since they would be mixed with vans, having short rakes of empties and loaded might be an easy way to interchange them.

 

 

Anyway, if you know of any sources of Southall-Brentford workings/other useful bits of info, please let me know.  Just think, it might just shut me up for a while...     ...er...be with you in a minute...or two...

 

[The Stationmaster]

The Brentford branch in the 1960s was worked under Table C2 Regulations under the control of the Person In Charge of Southall Yard - so basically a  single line, one train in section at a time and only allowed in under verbal authority but Brentford could of course handle several trains at once as it wasn't part of the C2 section section.  it was converted to Train Staff & Ticket working during the latter half of the 1970s although i can't remember the date but I did attend the meeting to agree the method of working as my train crews would be involved once the changeover was carried out.  Again that meant only one train in the section at a time but as many as could be dealt with at the same time at Brentford yard and I believe it remained the same after the 1998 resignalling - the TS&T being controlled by the Person In Charge at Southall Yard.  

 

The Sectional Appendix will tell you exactly what the situation is nowadays and will probably be a lot more helpful in many respects that the kiddy's guide in the Timetable Planning Rules (strewth alone knows who that is written for with such incredibly basic stuff as that in its contents)?

[southern42]

The Brentford branch in the 1960s was worked under Table C2 Regulations under the control of the Person In Charge of Southall Yard - so basically a  single line, one train in section at a time and only allowed in under verbal authority but Brentford could of course handle several trains at once as it wasn't part of the C2 section section.  it was converted to Train Staff & Ticket working during the latter half of the 1970s although i can't remember the date but I did attend the meeting to agree the method of working as my train crews would be involved once the changeover was carried out.  Again that meant only one train in the section at a time but as many as could be dealt with at the same time at Brentford yard and I believe it remained the same after the 1998 resignalling - the TS&T being controlled by the Person In Charge at Southall Yard.  

 

The Sectional Appendix will tell you exactly what the situation is nowadays and will probably be a lot more helpful in many respects that the kiddy's guide in the Timetable Planning Rules (strewth alone knows who that is written for with such incredibly basic stuff as that in its contents)?

 

I have several pages from it, Mike! Great stuff. 

 

I'm currently sifting through it all to see how much of it could be shown/demonstrated on the layout.  Maybe more than I initially thought if I take it to extremes - like the Forms on display in the loco cab and the PiC on the Telephone, if only for the camera! In fact, thinking about it, there could be a whole boxful of figures/items that could provide bodies/items for various (temporary) roles which could make for some realistic scenes for photographic purposes. That would give a whole new dimension to play/operational value. 

 

One of my favourite such moments, is Tangmere, on a light engine move,.being 'waved' into the yard  by a hi viz vested yardman,  The man would look sillly if he were permanently in place.

 

So, these documents aren't just useful for prototype running, and I'm finding that they are stimulating a whole host of questions and ideas for situations for which the rules might be required.  For C2 situations it could be:

 

"Siding connections within the C2 section." (Locking of point lever, obtaining and returning the key)  Presumably that would/could apply to GWRd sidings.  What fun!  And there's loads more that I will itemise and think how I can put it into action on GWRd.

 

All I'm saying is that if, for example, I have an operating session, rather than just run a few trains up and down, I actually consider what is going on and set it up stage by stage, photograph it and pop it on here! 

 

 

 

Anyway, Mike, thanks, for putting it into it's historical context, as well. It helps knowing at what point these things changed within GWRd's 50 year gap, especially as I moved away from the area 40 years ago.   The transition from 1961 steam to DMU depot will be a lot easier to suggest once the RTR class 121 and class 117 appear.  I'm looking forward to those.

Edited March 14, 2016 by southern42

[southern42]

Post script to last post.

 

I notice that, occasionally, the rule books state "See local instructions".  How were these kept?  Were they  published individually or did they appear together in a single volume?

[The Stationmaster]

Post script to last post.

 

I notice that, occasionally, the rule books state "See local instructions".  How were these kept?  Were they  published individually or did they appear together in a single volume?

 

That too changed over the years - originally Local Instructions seem to have been just that and they were only exhibited - in the form of a printed page - where they applied.  But if you go way back on teh GWr they had often appeared in the Service Timetables so all rather confusing.

 

By the 1930s the situation on the GWR seems to have been fairly straightforward in that Instructions applicable at where-ever were shown in the Sectional Appendix.  However although this practice continued through to the 1960 re-issue of the Sectional Appendices a later communication suggests that at some places there were still, or had been introduced, separate Local Instructions issued only locally and printed on a sheet (or sheets of paper) - seemingly on the basis that if they only applied to staff employed at that place there was no need to put them in the SA.  This practice came to be very much frowned on and by the 1968/69 reissue of the SAs it was made very clear that all Local Instructions were to be included in the SA and that has been the standard practice since then.

 

Thus a 1960 or earlier Sectional appendix potentially might not include all Local Instructions fora  particular place but at least it ought to include all which affect traincrew.  Late 1960s reissue onwards everything should be in the Sectional Appendix and there should be no separate, locally posted, Local Instructions.

 

The only variation to this is in the case of Signalbox Special Instructions (known as 'Footnotes' on the GWR) which  - apart from the Rules section's off ice copy are only posted in the signalbox to which they apply.

[southern42]

Wow.  Just give me a minute to digest that little lot...

 

OK.  Over the what-ever, now.

Right then, a local instruction sheet will be put up in GWRd Signal Box.

 

And, for an Interlude, here is an example of a "Man with a Key."

 

Kirkby Stephen 14/08/2013 09:46.  An occasional move this, a 'one-off'!

I was just lucky to see it.  Just happened to be there at the time.

 

158 849 arrives on the down line going north

...or so I thought.

But..

Enter Signalman with key.  Points were thrown and locked in position,

if I remember rightly.

 

158 849 departs back up the line.

The signalman returns and returns everything to normal.

 

 

End of Interlude.

Back to normal next time.

Edited March 15, 2016 by southern42

[The Stationmaster]

Wow.  Just give me a minute to digest that little lot...

 

OK.  Over the what-ever, now.

Right then, a local instruction sheet will be put up in GWRd Signal Box.

 

And, for an Interlude, here is an example of a "Man with a Key."

 

Kirkby Stephen 14/08/2013 09:46.  An occasional move this, a 'one-off'!

I was just lucky to see it.  Just happened to be there at the time.

 

158 849 arrives on the down line going north

IMG_0038 314x235.JPG

...or so I thought.

IMG_0043 158849.JPG

But..

Enter Signalman with key.  Points were thrown and locked in position,

if I remember rightly.

IMG_0040 314x235.JPG

 

IMG_0042 314x223.JPG

158 849 departs back up the line.

158849 314x184.jpg

The signalman returns and returns everything to normal.

IMG_0047 314x235.JPG

 

 

End of Interlude.

Back to normal next time.

 

Looks like the points are being barred over to close them up.

[southern42]

Polly that signal dates from the early 1990s resignalling at Southall, prior to that (from the 1968 resignalling) it was an elevated position light with no route indicator the only difference being that on the 1968 layout you couldn't get to the branch from just there (that was something I put back in in my layout plan (which is basically what is there now).  The 1968 signal accorded with normal WR practice of that time, the 1990s signal accorded with standard Signalling Principles for the date at which the design was frozen.

 

Prior to 1968 I'm fairly sure it was a semaphore - small arm with no indication of route reading only to the branch sticks in my mind for some reason but it might have had a mechanical route indicator.

 

Hey, hey! Multiple aspect signalling, Old Oak Common (Southall) 1968.

http://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/scans/34/1968%20-%20LXO%20100%20Old%20Oak%20Common%20Stage%207.pdf

 

Hey, hey! #2

Hymek at Southall on Sir Nigel Gresley tour from Manchester 1965 and in colour! So great pics of the water and water softener towers.

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p870200504/h22DB8285#h22db8285

 

Hey, hey! #3  And what's this!?!  A case of "Steam 4 ever!" methinks.

 

Caption on Ebay: "6161 at Southall on 10th May 1965" - No mention of that (broken down?) Diesel!  Perhaps, they were just heading home (6161 allocated to 81C May 1952 - January 1965).

 

I think that's enough excitement for one night.

Edited March 16, 2016 by southern42

[southern42]

Polly that signal dates from the early 1990s resignalling at Southall, prior to that (from the 1968 resignalling) it was an elevated position light with no route indicator the only difference being that on the 1968 layout you couldn't get to the branch from just there (that was something I put back in in my layout plan (which is basically what is there now).  The 1968 signal accorded with normal WR practice of that time, the 1990s signal accorded with standard Signalling Principles for the date at which the design was frozen.

 

Prior to 1968 I'm fairly sure it was a semaphore - small arm with no indication of route reading only to the branch sticks in my mind for some reason but it might have had a mechanical route indicator.

 

Hey, hey! Multiple aspect signalling, Old Oak Common (Southall) 1968.

http://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/scans/34/1968%20-%20LXO%20100%20Old%20Oak%20Common%20Stage%207.pdf

 

Hey, hey! #2

Hymek at Southall on Sir Nigel Gresley tour from Manchester 1965 and in colour! So great pics of the water and water softener towers.

http://www.rail-online.co.uk/p870200504/h22DB8285#h22db8285

 

Hey, hey! #3  And what's this!?!  A case of "Steam 4 ever!" methinks.

Caption on Ebay: "6161 at Southall on 10th May 1965" - No mention of that (broken down?) Diesel!  Perhaps, they were just heading home (6161 allocated to 81C May 1952 - January 1965).

 

I think that's enough excitement for one night.

 

[Andrew P]

So excited you POSTED IT TWICE hhahahhhahaeeee

[southern42]

The Brentford branch in the 1960s was worked under Table C2 Regulations under the control of the Person In Charge of Southall Yard - so basically a  single line, one train in section at a time and only allowed in under verbal authority but Brentford could of course handle several trains at once as it wasn't part of the C2 section section.  it was converted to Train Staff & Ticket working during the latter half of the 1970s although i can't remember the date but I did attend the meeting to agree the method of working as my train crews would be involved once the changeover was carried out.  Again that meant only one train in the section at a time but as many as could be dealt with at the same time at Brentford yard and I believe it remained the same after the 1998 resignalling - the TS&T being controlled by the Person In Charge at Southall Yard.  

 

The Sectional Appendix will tell you exactly what the situation is nowadays and will probably be a lot more helpful in many respects that the kiddy's guide in the Timetable Planning Rules (strewth alone knows who that is written for with such incredibly basic stuff as that in its contents)?

 

Since Mike's post (apart from a number of documents available online), I have managed to pick up a few publications:

 

British Railways, General Appendix to Working Timetables and books of Rules and Regulations, 1960

 

British Railways Supplement No. 1 to the General Appendix to Working Timetables and Books of Regulations, 1962.

 

British Railways (Western Region) Sectional Appendix to the Working Timetable and Books of Rules and Regulations London Division, 1960  [southall pages 94-95; Brentford Branch and Brentford Town page 125]

 

 

Kind of strange to have and handle these books dating from my childhood years.  They make for some interesting reading but the main task will be extracting info relevant to Southall - Brentford Junction and Branch line and applying it (as is practicable) to the operation of GWRd.  It may take some time!

[The Stationmaster]

Since Mike's post (apart from a number of documents available online), I have managed to pick up a few publications:

 

British Railways, General Appendix to Working Timetables and books of Rules and Regulations, 1960

 

British Railways Supplement No. 1 to the General Appendix to Working Timetables and Books of Regulations, 1962.

 

British Railways (Western Region) Sectional Appendix to the Working Timetable and Books of Rules and Regulations London Division, 1960  [southall pages 94-95; Brentford Branch and Brentford Town page 125]

 

 

Kind of strange to have and handle these books dating from my childhood years.  They make for some interesting reading but the main task will be extracting info relevant to Southall - Brentford Junction and Branch line and applying it (as is practicable) to the operation of GWRd.  It may take some time!

 

But don't forget these things gradually altered over the years so you need the relevant supplements for the date you are choosing.

 

BUT far more importantly you need to read the Sectional Appendix completely and not just get drawn to the Local Instructions page(s) because there is plenty of Southall related information elsewhere in the book - for example (among a number) there is a nice little item on Page 48.   It seems to be a common error among people seeing an SA for the first time that they look for the name of the place in which they are interested and - if it exists - they turn to it and ignore everything else between the Table A item and the Local Instructions whereas there can be a lot of important stuff between the two (e.g. page 48 in this case).

 

So even more to study Polly

[Donw]

Fascinating stuff. I know what you mean about this from your past that photo of 6161 at Southall was taken on my 16th Birthday a few weeks later I was travelling between Reading and Paddington daily for a while. No I don't have any notes from then. I do remember quite a lot of diesel failures 

Don

[southern42]

But don't forget these things gradually altered over the years so you need the relevant supplements for the date you are choosing.

 

BUT far more importantly you need to read the Sectional Appendix completely and not just get drawn to the Local Instructions page(s) because there is plenty of Southall related information elsewhere in the book - for example (among a number) there is a nice little item on Page 48.   It seems to be a common error among people seeing an SA for the first time that they look for the name of the place in which they are interested and - if it exists - they turn to it and ignore everything else between the Table A item and the Local Instructions whereas there can be a lot of important stuff between the two (e.g. page 48 in this case).

 

So even more to study Polly

 

It's alright Mike, I've pretty much looked/read through the books (several times since I've had them!) to give me an idea of what they cover.  It does take a bit of time to digest it though, and a bit longer to tie it into GWRd.  I can't afford to pic n mix anyway, because most of the locos, and railcars, will shoot off here, there and everywhere with different jobs and restrictions - I'm not even sure if I'll have enough locos to keep up with it all but there are enough rules and regs to keep what I have on their toes wheels.  I expect you won't see them for most of the day, anyway, what with all the early morning departures with late evening returns back on shed, except a few branch line runs and a bit of local activity in the sidings.   And anything I haven't got I can claim is out on road!    I keep saying that...    

 

 

While you mention the note on page 48, if anyone knows of any pics of a pannier tank hauling a freight train with the use of a head lamp on the centre of the buffer beam down the Brentford branch, I'd be delighted to know of it so I can model it.      I'll tell you why.  I also picked this little bit up in WTT Sep60-Jun61 notes some time ago, but the only photo I have seen with a head lamp in the centre of the buffer beam on the Brentford branch is of No. 9773 (81F) for the Thames Valley Rail Tour in 1965.  [No. 6106 arrived in the Branch platform with left and right lamps on the buffer beam (Class A), No. 9773 taking over for the Brentford branch and then onto Windsor & Eton Central via the Staines branch.]

 

The freight train formations I have had my eye on for modelling on GWRd either carry the lamp on the right of the buffer beam (Class J freight) - the (1961) Down Branch pannier, No. 9791 (81C); the Up Branch (1960) pannier, No. 3620 (81C) and No. 3620, again, on the Up train passing Southall (1961).

 

or

 

on the left of the buffer beam (Class K) - the (1963) Down pannier No. 9726 (81C).

 

No. 9642 (81C) running the (1963) 'driver's special' also carries the head lamp on the left (Class K), and also carries the lamp on the left at Uxbridge (Vine Street) on a branch freight train, 1964.

 

From various sources including "Branch Lines of West London," disused-stations.org; and http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/650725lc.html.

 

 

Fascinating stuff. I know what you mean about this from your past that photo of 6161 at Southall was taken on my 16th Birthday a few weeks later I was travelling between Reading and Paddington daily for a while. No I don't have any notes from then. I do remember quite a lot of diesel failures 

Don

 

Don, do you know where it was heading?  I'm guessing it would be Old Oak Common.

Oh! And a belated happy birthday.  

[southern42]

I had some fun with the camera on Sunday at Llangollen Railway's Victorian Weekend.

 

Talking headlamps on here, and then travelling up and down the line, jumping from one train to another, I couldn't quite help noticing the position of headlamps on the three trains that were running.

 

Express passenger, 7728 Foxcote Manor at Glyndyfrdwy on the down to Corwen East

 

and at Berwyn, tender first, on the up train to Llangollen.

 

Ordinary passenger, large prairie 5199 standing at Llangollen, has its headlamp placed in position before running round the train for the down train to Corwen East.

 

 

 

Branch passenger, auto-train at Glyndyfrdwy on its way down to Corwen East.

Edited May 19, 2016 by southern42

[southern42]

With an image of a token in use on the Brentford branch stored in the memory

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/brentford/firestone%28pearson7.1960%29.jpg

I was soon token snapping as well.

 

On the platform at Carrog, the first train of the day, 6430 with auto-trailers, arrived from Glyndyfrdwy.  The Carrog token (top of photo) was shown to the driver in the leading auto-trailer, and handed to the fireman in the pannier's cab for the Carrog-Corwen East section, the signalman receiving the token (bottom of photo) from the preceding section, Glyndyfrdwy-Carrog.

 

 

7728 Foxcote Manor arrives from Corwen East and the signalman receives the Carrog token (on the left of photo) and passes over the token for Glyndyfrdwy (on the right).

 

 

 

Also, I just happened to be on the right side of the auto-train to notice some other nifty token exchanges going on, using the receiving and delivery apparatus mentioned in the Sectional Appendix (noted above)!  It sort of went like this: 

 

" Ah! That's what they look like!"  (SNAP)

 

Setting down

 

Picking up

 

And from the next train down the line:

 

"Ah! That's how it's done!"  (SNAP)

The fireman sets down the yellow token and picks up the red token.

 

 

 

Of interest, in the Sectional Appendix, on the Brentford branch, the Fireman obtains permission from the signalman by telephone to withdraw the token and informs the signalman that the token has been withdrawn.

 

 

It all gradually slots into place!