Great West Road - transfers & I’m not talking football!

[southern42]

A good evening to you all and hope you've all had a Great (Western) Easter.

 

Now here's a turn up for the books.

Not long back from a day on the Welsh Highland Railway, over a cuppa, I was googling the Brentford Branch Line and came across a photo of 9773 on a rail tour along the Brentford Branch Line (25 July 1965).  I followed it up and HEY, B I N G O   Didcot's 6106 headed the train into Southall, Brentford Bay from where 9773 took over.  Now that bit of the tour could be modelled though I'd have to reduce the number of (BR/SR) coaches to two.

 

Photos of 6016 and 9773 in action are on the tour details on Six Bells Junction.

 

And to finish, a Shark on the Llangollen Railway on Friday.

 

[Andrew P]

A good evening to you all and hope you've all had a Great (Western) Easter.

 

Now here's a turn up for the books.

Not long back from a day on the Welsh Highland Railway, over a cuppa, I was googling the Brentford Branch Line and came across a photo of 9773 on a rail tour along the Brentford Branch Line (25 July 1965).  I followed it up and HEY, B I N G O   Didcot's 6106 headed the train into Southall, Brentford Bay from where 9773 took over.  Now that bit of the tour could be modelled though I'd have to reduce the number of (BR/SR) coaches to two.

 

Photos of 6016 and 9773 in action are on the tour details on Six Bells Junction.

 

And to finish, a Shark on the Llangollen Railway on Friday.

 

IMG_1230 Shark at Carrog.JPG

Polly, I always said the waters around Bedwyn were dangerous.

[southern42]

Some dangerous waters below the shark infested railway. 

 

 

[ChrisN]

Polly,

I assume everything is still in flood from the winter?

[southern42]

Hi Chris.

 

It didn't seem to be.  The two pics above were taken last spring, but this one is a still from a video I shot on Friday. 

 

 

Polly

 

Edit.  Inserted smaller sized image.

 

This part of the video was taken at Berwyn Station between the arched viaduct (to the left) and the chain bridge (to the right). 

Edited April 21, 2014 by southern42

[southern42]

A good evening to you all and hope you've all had a Great (Western) Easter.

 

Now here's a turn up for the books.

Not long back from a day on the Welsh Highland Railway, over a cuppa, I was googling the Brentford Branch Line and came across a photo of 9773 on a rail tour along the Brentford Branch Line (25 July 1965).  I followed it up and HEY, B I N G O   Didcot's 6106 headed the train into Southall, Brentford Bay from where 9773 took over.  Now that bit of the tour could be modelled though I'd have to reduce the number of (BR/SR) coaches to two, possibly three.

 

Photos of 6016 and 9773 in action are on the tour details on Six Bells Junction.

 

......................

 

So, how could it be modelled?  Do post any other suggestions or actual movements at your leisure.

The track plan, below, is just one of several variants and hasn't been finalised, yet.

 

 

Off we go, then.

9773, which was withdrawn from 87F Llanelly, December 1965 and cut up at Cashmore's in June 1966, has arrived from the mainline (off scene), gone on shed and now waits at the end of the loop.

 

The train comes into the platform from the mainline.  6106 is uncoupled and 9773 arrives from the passing loop and pulls off the train.  6106 can go on shed as, in the real world, it was allocated to 81C in July 1965 having moved from Didcot to Southall in January 1965, then from Southall to Oxford in September 1965.  http://www.brdatabase.info

 

 

In the link below, 9773 is pictured (in colour) at Staines about to run round by the looks of it.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/staines_west/

A few more photos at Staines, here:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/staines_west/index2.shtml

 

Will I really need that many people on my platform?  Maybe not...I'll only have two coaches....that'll cut 'em down a bit... just don't tell the rest of the world there's a tour on...

And, apparently (so I'm informed!) we have two BSKs just waiting for some action.

"Set 770" (seen clearly on one BSK) consisted of Bulleid BSK 4301, CK 5751, BSK 4302 built in 1947, the latter noted on the Six Bells Junction Thames Valley Tour page.

 

 

But it doesn't end there.  The train returned from the Firestone Sidings on the Brentford Branch so there will be some more running round for 9773 back at GWRd before the train heads back out onto the mainline on to Staines and beyond.  You couldn't make it up, could you?

 

Brentford Dock closed in 1964 so no dock traffic at the time of this tour.  As yet, I've not noted which industries along the line still had a rail service up to 1965 or later, so still some background info to obtain.

 

Polly

[Andrew P]

Very good Polly,   I'm CONFUSED , but still very good,     it looks like there's some interesting train movements possible, will there be a fiddle yard at each end or was Southall a Terminus?

And whats the bit bottom left, as that looks like a F/Y Rat Run?

 

Confused of,                where am I?

Edited April 22, 2014 by Andrew P

[southern42]

For Andy, and everyone else, including me, who gets confused.

 

There will be some sort of fiddle yard behind the platform.  The platform serves the branch terminus and represents "Southall (Brentford Junction)."  The track leading top right would ideally run to a fiddle yard at the right end but I've not the room, so it will act as a kick back to the fiddle yard behind the platform.  How this will fit in with a backscene has yet to be decided.

 

In the real world, the platform tracks carry on under the road bridge alongside the south sidings and onto the mainline.

See Brian Daniel's post #55 on Class "66" photos.....Uk.... (second photo on the other side of the bridge) - a bit green these days.  The station building and road bridge are in the distance.

 

Back to the layout.  Behind the branch platform is Southall Station and the mainline.

 

Hope the video below makes it a bit clearer. 

The loco with support coach comes in under the footbridge into the relief road (branch terminus).  Note the road bridge at the end of the platform.  The loco then reverses into the shed yard.  Beyond is the old water tower/coal stage tower and distant shed.  On the right is the arched wall behind which used to be the old margarine factory loading bay with tracks leading in from the bridge end whereas on the layout there is one track coming in from the branchline.

 

 

EDIT and I do believe that's "Fred" at the bottom of the steps.

 

Polly

Edited April 22, 2014 by southern42

[southern42]

Wow. We're well into May.  So what have I been up to?

On 26th April we went to the Liverpool Model Railway Exhibition.  No sooner had we got in the door, I saw and bought this.

 

 

It turns out that it is part built, glued and part painted.

 

 

 

A useful bag o' bits

 

and a pair of cab plates though I'm thinking #9409 (81C 1951-1955 and 1956-1962) would be  better.

 

9409 caught in action on a local goods in April 1961: http://www.prorail.co.uk/BWselection.php?id=386

 

The Triang/Hornby chassis is suggested.  Would the High Level 0-6-0 pannier tank chassis be a suitable alternative?  BrianT's Wills Finecast 94xx sits on a Bachmann 87xx chassis Abercynon (Fach) #81 which may be a cheaper match.

 

Polly

[Andrew P]

Hi Polly Pumpkin, just seen this, is it something that Bachmann don't make? I have the 8750 in Black and it runs a dream so that's a good starting point for a chassis I would have thought.

 

Really looking forward to your step by step building guide on the one Poll.

 

All the best and good luck.

[southern42]

Hi Andy. Currently there isn't a RTR 94xx.

My 8750 needs chipping so will test fit the chassis to the 9400 at the same time.

If it fits, I'll be on the look out for another one.  Failing that, High Level do an 8750 chassis kit that might fit.

 

Polly

 

 

 

.

[Castle]

Hi Polly,

 

I will second Bodgit's vote for the Bachmann chassis - I have two (Nos. 3650 and 3738) and they both run beautifully! The white metal 97XX conversion that you saw at Stoke Mandeville last year was a Bachmann chassis with the running plate and smokebox door from the pannier body that my friend and I did.

 

Go for it!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

 

Edit: Have you ordered a Caerphilly Castle from Hornby? You will need one to do No. 4079 for the mid 1960s scenario...

Edited May 8, 2014 by Castle

[southern42]

Metamorphosis

 

Hi Castle.

 

Caerphilly Castle will definitely be pre-ordered for morphing into Pendennis but there is a small issue with the tender.

 

Interesting day. First I came across this pic of Pendennis Castle at Southall - I've not seen this one before.  It is so much better having evidence of it ready for work with somewhere to go rather than just sitting alongside the shed looking pretty.

"Castle Class 4-6-0 4079 'Pendennis Castle' at Southall in preparation for

operating a railtour to Worcester, 8/8/65.

©John Day Collection/Rail Photoprints.co.uk"

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v108/p1737584403-5.jpg

 

Pendennis is sporting the 4,000 gallon tender whereas Caerphilly is preserved with a smaller one and lined as pictured at Swindon works 1925 and this appears to be how the Hornby loco is being modelled.  See links below.

 

Caerphilly Castle at Swindon works: http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock/CollectionItem.aspx?objid=1961-76#panel-3

 

Caerphilly Castle at the Science Museum, South Kensington, London: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/3484148826/

 

Caerphilly Castle the model: http://www.Hornby.com/shop/2014-range/steam-locomotive-and-packs/r3237-gwr-4-6-0-caerphilly-castle-castle-class-nrm/

 

No worries.  I could simply swap the tender for the one on my 5011Tintagel Castle.

 

Polly

 

 

[southern42]

Before I go any further, I have to decide on the size of shed, so the plan is to build a card mock up to see how it will look on the baseboard.  This time it will be based on the 1950s brick building.  Does anyone have an architectural plan / dimensions?  Roof height, north light span, and width between roads would be sufficient at this stage as it will inevitably be shorter than its 210ft length (diesel shed 275ft) and 4 roads narrower.

 

As a starter, I've been looking at the dimensions of 3 to 4 road sheds for best match. So far, the closest for modelling a 3-road steam shed with 1-road diesel shed is Weymouth.  (Historical survey GW engine sheds, Lyons, p.101).  This sits within a similar track plan already devised for GWRd.

 

I've knocked up a diagram to work from which comprises elements from Southall GWR/BR and Weymouth GWR.

 

Dimensions for Southall 1950s shed (approximate model size in brackets)

Shed 210ft x 100ft (840mm x 400mm / 2ft 9in x 16in)

Diesel shed and stores 275ft x 33ft (1100mm x 132mm / 3ft 7in x 5in) 

Total width 532mm / 21in (baseboard width = 24in)

Little room for anything else.

 

Dimensions based on Weymouth

Shed 180ft x 62ft (720mm x 248mm / 2ft 4in x 10in)

Lifting shop 90ft x 22ft (width 88mm / 3in)

Southall stores width 25ft (100mm / 4in)

Total width 436mm / 17in [3in + 10in + 4in]  (baseboard width = 24in)

 

Better but still too long and too wide.

 

Dimensions based on Southall GWR

Shed 100ft x 100ft (400mm x 400m) 6 road

Reduce to 3 roads based on width of 50ft as at Salisbury (400mm x 200mm / 16in x 8in)

Reduce width of stores to 20ft (80mm / 3in)

Total width would be 14in [3in + 8in + 3in]

Total size would be 400mm x 350mm (16in x 14in)  with diesel road possibly extending (up?) to 600mm / 24in (150 ft).

 

A quick measure on the layout and and I'm not sure I'd get away with 14in width.  13in then.

Just need the height to go ahead with a mock up.

 

 

 

 

[southern42]

Shed mock up under way.  Shed height guestimated though it may be a little undersize at the moment.

 

Length of 3 road steam shed is now 13in. Room for a Castle or 9F or two 'tankies'.

Width 8in.

Overall width of north light roof span 11in (diesel shed outer wall not added yet).

Overall width of footprint with stores added will be about 13in.

 

I've divided up the roof into three north light sections.

Tomorrow I will add the diesel shed walls extending the length by two north light sections (about 8ins).

The diesel shed should hold a two car DMU (Derby lightweight).

 

 

Polly

[southern42]

A couple of quick pics of the mockup.

 

South wall.  Locos enter from the left.

 

North side.  Locos enter from the right.  The diesel shed, road nearest camera, will be extended to the left.

 

Hope that helps.

It's a bit short compared with the prototype but it's more in keeping with the size of the layout.

 

Polly

[southern42]

Update.

 

Waking up this morning, I wondered how the mock up compared with the prototype.

After breakfast did some quick sums - which I should have done in the first place!

 

Length of roof = 210ft = 5 northlights @ 42ft (168mm / c.6¹/₂in)

 

Image from Google maps

 

So, strictly speaking, GWRd shed should have two northlights on the steam shed and 3 on the diesel shed plus stores building.  Now, would that look silly?  I'll have a go later and post the result.

 

This is how the GWRd shed would compare with a 3-northlight diesel shed + stores.

Image from Google maps overlaid with diagram

 

What do you think?

 

 

And to complicate make matters more interesting, take a look at the offices above the stores on the south side in this view.  http://www.prorail.co.uk/BWselection.php?id=306

There's a challenge. 

 

Maybe I'll just get a Ready to Plonk...? :nono: ...a simple northlight kit.....?  :nono:

 

Polly

[ChrisN]

Polly,

Just a thought.  If you had only two northlights, would you make the slope on one side shallower?  If so it would work with two and three.

 

As for the windows I am sure for you it would be a piece of cake, either scored on the glazing and painted or thin white tape stuck on the glazing.

[Andrew P]

Hi Polly, I like the mock ups and track plan, I'm shattered tonight now so will have a proper read tomorrow and do another post then

 

All the best to you both.

[southern42]

It might be preferable to keep a 3-northlight shed rather than two.

My thinking is that all those ventillators look rather dramatic.

So, this morning I had a go at making some (rolled card, for now).

but comparing the one I fixed on the shed with those on the Prorail image, they could do with being a bit larger.  They also need to sit behind the ridge.

 

Does anyone make these ventilators (kit / parts)?

 

On the 81C shed there were 6 rows of vents stradling the 8 roads. It seems reasonable to have 3 over GWRd's 4 roads. Three rows of these would have more impact than two so, for now, I'll go along with this and make the 9 ventilators and see what the whole thing looks like.

 

I'll also need to add the outer diesel wall, the wall section below the roof and ock up a 2-storey stores/mess/offices building on the south wall.  Will try and get that done tomorrow.

Then maybe do a quick paint job to make it look a bit more life like...add a few locos....

 

Polly
 

[Jaz]

I think having a trial run is a good idea. You get feel for what can and can't work. And it helps you identify if it is worth all the trouble.As it is close to a wall Can you infer the rest on the wall? Not in focus no detail just shame shape 

[Castle]

Metamorphosis

 

Hi Castle.

 

Caerphilly Castle will definitely be pre-ordered for morphing into Pendennis but there is a small issue with the tender.

 

Interesting day. First I came across this pic of Pendennis Castle at Southall - I've not seen this one before.  It is so much better having evidence of it ready for work with somewhere to go rather than just sitting alongside the shed looking pretty.

 

"Castle Class 4-6-0 4079 'Pendennis Castle' at Southall in preparation for

operating a railtour to Worcester, 8/8/65.

©John Day Collection/Rail Photoprints.co.uk"

 

http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v108/p1737584403-5.jpg

 

 

 

Pendennis is sporting the 4,000 gallon tender whereas Caerphilly is preserved with a smaller one and lined as pictured at Swindon works 1925 and this appears to be how the Hornby loco is being modelled.  See links below.

 

Caerphilly Castle at Swindon works: http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock/CollectionItem.aspx?objid=1961-76#panel-3

 

Caerphilly Castle at the Science Museum, South Kensington, London: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/3484148826/

 

Caerphilly Castle the model: http://www.Hornby.com/shop/2014-range/steam-locomotive-and-packs/r3237-gwr-4-6-0-caerphilly-castle-castle-class-nrm/

 

No worries.  I could simply swap the tender for the one on my 5011Tintagel Castle.

 

Polly

Hi Polly,

 

Guess what deal one of the 4144 gang and I have?! I am doing No. 4073 as No. 4079 with No. 5011s tender and No. 5011 will become No. 5000 with No. 4073s tender as per the time she was on trial with the LMS. My friend will buy No. 5000 from me and we both get interesting Castles! My No. 4079 is going into GWR style BR livery with BRITSH RAILWAYS in the Egyptian Serif font. Much less repainting that way - just a bit of extra lining to remove...

 

Everyone's a winner!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[southern42]

Polly,

Just a thought.  If you had only two northlights, would you make the slope on one side shallower?  If so it would work with two and three.

 

As for the windows I am sure for you it would be a piece of cake, either scored on the glazing and painted or thin white tape stuck on the glazing.

 

Hi Chris.

The roof would follow the Southall pattern of shallow slope on the west end and steep slope on the east end.  On the second photo of the mockup it looks as though the fall is the same on both sides - just a quirk of the camera's wide angle lens on the perspective I guess.

 

I'd also consider printing out the windows on clear acetate.  The wall isn't flat either with several bays and at least one top light though it looks straightforward enough to put together. I'll be happy enough to capture the essence of the building with a few of those key features.

Polly

[southern42]

Hi Polly, I like the mock ups and track plan, I'm shattered tonight now so will have a proper read tomorrow and do another post then

 

All the best to you both.

 

Thanks, Andy.

Will watch out for your post.

Best wishes.

Polly

[southern42]

I think having a trial run is a good idea. You get feel for what can and can't work. And it helps you identify if it is worth all the trouble.As it is close to a wall Can you infer the rest on the wall? Not in focus no detail just shame shape 

 

A good point to raise, Jaz.  My imagination only goes so far.  There comes a point when I want to make sure an idea works (or not).  Doing a mock up also shows how big (or small) something really is and is easier to modify than a finished structure.  At the moment I'm using a wooden plate to stand in for a turntable so I'm also looking at how it would sit with the shed.  In GWR days the turn table was to the side and just beyond the shed on a dead end road.  The BR TT was a long way behind the shed at the end of the shed's through roads.

 

There will be a coaling road and road to fiddleyard behind the shed.  Both GWR and BR sheds had through roads so I was hoping the layout could be viewed from both ends.  That would rule out an end panel.

 

Polly