Jon Fitness Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Yes, it's another 7mm workbench being started up! Not content with building signals, I've got a rather eclectic collection of rolling stock kits to get through. I'm "multi-era" and "multi-area" in my interests so hopefully there will be something of interest for most browsers. I'm starting with some Alan Gibson LBSCR 54ft coaches as I have a liking for the steam era lines that were on the Isle of Wight. I have an Adams 02 class (No 22 Brading) and needed some suitable rolling stock for it to pull. As Colin from Alan Gibson Workshop has been persuaded to re- release this range of 7mm kits I ordered 4 of them (2 all thirds and a couple of the 6 compartment brakes). I have made the rather rash decision to build all 4 together and having never built a brass coach before it should be a laugh if nothing else! The kits appear fairly basic being quite old but Colin has upgraded some of the cast parts from whitemetal to lost wax brass. The etched parts. Apparently in the original kits only one etched end was supplied with a pattern provided for you to cut the other one out yourself! This has now been rectified thankfully.. The cast parts. Whitemetal Battery boxes Air tank Air brake cylinder Dynamo Bogie Pivots Roof vents Brass Spring/axleboxes Buffers Door handles. Brake and steam heat pipes Also supplied are nuts bolts and brass wire and finally a nice set of wheels and bearings. I started with the bogies. The etched frames are fairly plain and perusing of some pictures showed a few rivets were need, mainly in the central area so I marked up a few lines and popped a few in to match the photos I've got. Once the rivets were done, the first frame was folded up, using a couple of bits of bar in the vice and a G-clamp. When the folding was completed and checked for squareness, the wheel bearings were soldered into the holes provided. The holes were a little big so I held the bearings in place in one position with a bit of wood while I soldered them in to keep a standard alignment. The instructions suggest fixing the bearings to the axlebox castings and fastening them onto the frame but I didn't think that was a good idea! The wheels are a bit tight to fit but the frame is fairly flexible and they went in OK with a bit of careful "flexing"! When the bogie was sat on its wheels I soldered the frame up and added the spring/axlebox castings, soldering these on just by the spring hangers. More soon Jon F. Edited August 6, 2019 by Jon Fitness 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi Jon The construction of the bogie and in particular the bolster rubbing plate is interesting. I would have expected the rubbing plate to be on the top rather than underneath but the folding of the etch means that it has to be at the bottom. Is there another casting that fits into the centre tray ? Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi Jon The construction of the bogie and in particular the bolster rubbing plate is interesting. I would have expected the rubbing plate to be on the top rather than underneath but the folding of the etch means that it has to be at the bottom. Is there another casting that fits into the centre tray ? Sandy There is a small square casting that fits in there but to my untrained eye it looks a bit small for the job. I'll get a bit further into the job before I decide how to modify it. Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 There is a small square casting that fits in there but to my untrained eye it looks a bit small for the job. I'll get a bit further into the job before I decide how to modify it. Cheers JF Hi Jon, I shall watch with interest to see how it works out. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Well Sandy, you had me thinking; had I, on the very first page, made a bit of a b*******s of it or had I got it right? Using 2 basic theories ( 1, fold lines always on the inside and, 2,if all else fails read the instructions) I re-checked and well.. I seem to have done it right. I think it would have been better folded the other way to put the flat part of the bolster at the top but the fold lines would have shown. Probably the answer would be have the axlebox areas the other way up on the etch maybe? Still, it is what it is and seems to be OK so far. I can always solder a "top" made from scrap etch across the open box section if need be. The next issue is this part, (not sure of the correct name for it) that you can see the end of, for which there is no component in the kit. As I need 16 of them I'll make a representative master up and cast them in whitemetal. There is also no brake gear supplied so the bits box will have to be raided for that. More soon Jon F. Edited October 19, 2012 by Jon Fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I will follow this build with interest. I am sure they will be upto your usual good standard. Do you know if Colin at Alan Gibson going to re release the other 7mm kits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The photographs you posted of the etch show that there was no alternative way of folding it and it should therefore be correct. It was just that I had never seen one folded that way before and as you need to have a rubbing plate for the bolster to rub on I was interested as to how Mr Gibson was going to achieve it!!! Your other picture shows what I think is the end of the bolster spring which would have been a leaf spring that went all the way accross the width of the bogie but I am not an authority of these. Kind regards Sandy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I will follow this build with interest. I am sure they will be upto your usual good standard. Do you know if Colin at Alan Gibson going to re release the other 7mm kits? Hi Peter, I'm a bit out of my comfort zone doing brass coaches (I've done plastic ones!) so anything could happen to them. Colin is fairly open to persuasion and will (if enough orders are forthcoming) probably "release" almost anything from the 7mm back catalogue if you are patient enough. I have one of the Adams 02s on order which just needs a set of his driving wheels doing..apparently. What I need now is some of the SECR coaches that were on the IOW to make up a proper rake as they almost always had a mix. Don't think anyone does them though Jon F. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I always find coaches daunting, and for the life of me I do not know why, when I have built some really aweful loco kits. I have no problems with wagons etc, and coaches are just overgrown wagons. I will have to have a look at one of the old catalogues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Having built a couple of bogies, I found a couple more things to alter! Just to make fitting of the wheelsets a bit easier I shortened the axle ends by about 1mm on each side; a bit brutal but it meant less "flexing" of the bogie sides to get them in. The next thing I noticed was that the folding up process left a gap between the edge of the folded up part of the main cross member and the bogie side frames. A bit of scrap etch from the kit was used to fill the gap before soldering. It also had the added bonus of strengthening the assembly. The spring/axlebox castings are lost wax brass and very nice but come with sprues. All these were sliced off with the diamond disc in the minidrill and any flash/casting powder residue cleaned off. The bolster spring assembly isn't supplied in the kit so I've made a sort of approximation up from plasticard. I think the proportions are right-ish so I'll tidy it up and get it in a mould with some home made brake shoes and produce a few castings. Just need to look through a few of my signal bits and see what parts could do with "re-freshing" just to fill up a little centrifugal mould. More soon Jon F 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi Jon, Just to say I am enjoying this thread of yours and it's good to see you do not just "give up" if some part is not supplied, I have built a few 7mm coaches and I must say "most" of them do not have any sort of brake detail added. To be honest the brake detail is needed especially in 7mm as it stands out that much more, I have built a GWR B set and a SR/BR bogie luggage van recently and I had to raid my scrap box to make a reasonable redition of what should be there. Just a quick question those rivets you are using look the business, are they from Scale hardware in the USA ? ATB, Martyn. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Harper Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 You're making a nice fist of that Jon. Enjoying the build. Sandy PS For Peter. Try a Haywood coach, very easy to obtain a good result. (Usual disclaimer)(Sorry for the hijack Jon) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi Martyn, The rivets are punched into the metal with my Metalsmiths rivet embosser although my marking out could be better! Sandy, no problem, hijack away! Jon. F. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Hi Martyn, The rivets are punched into the metal with my Metalsmiths rivet embosser although my marking out could be better! Sandy, no problem, hijack away! Jon. F. Hi Jon, The rivets look so real in the sixth picture down on this page that they actually look like they have a domed head, I use the GW riveter which I think is quite similar so perhaps I need to grind the head of the punch to a bit more of a softer point. ATB, Martyn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I find half etched rivets not as good as ones done in full thickness. With the GW press it also makes a lot of difference with punch die combinations. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Not much to report as work has been in the way but the little bits I need for the bogies are now encase in (hopefully setting) RTV101 rubber ready for casting tomorrow or Saturday. 2 of the 8 bogies need footsteps fitting and these are folded up from etches. The fold line is a little narrow making it a little difficult for a full 180 bend but once the fold was over 90 deg it was put in my little vice and crimped firmly flat. Solder was then fed in to keep them that way! They need support rods making up to fasten to the bogies and as I had forgotten to put some nickel-silver wire in my workbag (doh!) I made an unsuccesful attempt at using unfolded staples. They looked ok but I couldn't get a strong enough soldered joint under the step so these were discarded. On a slightly different tip, I've done some casting of another kind. Being a chocaholic but much restricted due to cholesterol issues, I make what I call "turbo-choc" which means I can have a good chocolate "hit" without eating too much of it... Take 3 bars of 85% cocoa solids choc (or higher), melt in a jug in a water bath, add 1 tblspn of ground raw cocoa nibs and a desert spoon of ground coffee, mix well and pour into small chocolate moulds. Chill....nibble...enjoy... More soon. JF Edited October 25, 2012 by Jon Fitness 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Well, the rubber eventually set and these are the relevant tatty little bits to fasten to the bogies. They're a bit basic but (I hope) better than nothing. I think the bogies would have looked too bare without any brake or bolster detail. The first set were soon soldered to the bogie with 145deg solder. 2 of the 8 bogies will have footsteps over one axlebox just under where the guards door is. I have some thin N/S strip which acted as support bars for the step. That and a quick blob of 145 under the step to the axleboxes made sure they won't get knocked off. Once these and the tie bars between the axleboxes were fitted the bogies began to look something like they should. This one shows how the bits are soldered on. Sorry about the messy soldering; the middle brake shoes were a bit awkward to position and I'm very much of the "whatever's necessary to stick them on" school of soldering... They'll all get a good scrub in the sink with some Cillit Bang and a quick coat of primer and matt black to stop the steel bits rusting away! Hopefully any c**p bits will disappear under the weathering later. Only another 7 to do now! More soon Jon F 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I sometimes think we try too hard to with details. Especially on bits that disapear into the blackness of shadow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 I sometimes think we try too hard to with details. Especially on bits that disapear into the blackness of shadow. You're probably right there! Not sure what to do for the interiors yet....30 or so compartments to do.... Jon F. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 All 8 bogies are now built and painted. Usual Halfords rattle can primer/matt black. I have experimented on other items with some rattle can black etch primer I got off the internet (as recommended by OzzyO of this parish) but I erm...didn't get on with it . A shame really as it looked a good idea to save time and not coat the things too thickly with paint. Sadly experiments showed the paint to be way too thin with a poor spray pattern from a spray head that wasn't interchangeable with the excellent Halfords ones. The sort of surface preparation required to get anything like a decent etch effect (ultrasonic cleaning and sand blasting, which I don't have access to, to key the surface etc) would probably make any paint stick anyway! One other thing which is a bit of a warning to check your mask equipment really; although I wear a mask during spraying, it must have slipped slightly as I ended up with additional black bogies of a different type too (sorry! ) Soooo.....It'll be the underframes next so I'll have to sort myself some longer bending bars! More soon Jon F. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaScala Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 All 8 bogies are now built and painted. Usual Halfords rattle can primer/matt black. I have experimented on other items with some rattle can black etch primer I got off the internet (as recommended by OzzyO of this parish) but I erm...didn't get on with it . A shame really as it looked a good idea to save time and not coat the things too thickly with paint. Sadly experiments showed the paint to be way too thin with a poor spray pattern from a spray head that wasn't interchangeable with the excellent Halfords ones. The sort of surface preparation required to get anything like a decent etch effect (ultrasonic cleaning and sand blasting, which I don't have access to, to key the surface etc) would probably make any paint stick anyway! One other thing which is a bit of a warning to check your mask equipment really; although I wear a mask during spraying, it must have slipped slightly as I ended up with additional black bogies of a different type too (sorry! ) Soooo.....It'll be the underframes next so I'll have to sort myself some longer bending bars! More soon Jon F. Very impressive, batch building that actually happened as intended, well done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) The floor/underframe parts of one of the coaches as removed from the fret. As you can see the floor has solebars and queen posts that fold down and half etched overlays to be fitted over the solebars. Not sure of the best method of getting these soldered on nice and flat so any ideas gratefully considered! I'll leave the queen posts flat until I'm ready to fit the truss rods. Now, does anyone know of a source of lost wax brass turnbuckles for these? The buffer beams are seperate and I'll punch out any rivet detail before soldering them on. There is also quite a bit of useful long straight bits of scrap etch to be recovered as well (I never throw owt like that away!) The half etched overlays were removed from the fret by scoring the tabs and breaking them off The fold down solebars were then scored a couple of times along the fold line and clamped in my makeshift bending bars (really must treat myself to a set of proper ones) and bent over using a good straight edged piece of metal. The material is scrap printers packing metal which is nice and straight. Hopefully, once I have a rest day or two off work I'll soon have some underframe/bogie assemblies to rattle round the layout on test! More soon (as long as everyone hasn't glazed over!) JF Edited October 31, 2012 by Jon Fitness 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Would Laurie Griffin have any I know he has some LBSC coach fittings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Would Laurie Griffin have any I know he has some LBSC coach fittings. Thanks I'll have a look JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi Jon, if Laurie doesn't Peter Dobson at Newbould models does some - I am not sure that they would be specific to the LBSCR as I got some for and NER coach but they are very nice castings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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