Hornby 'KitKat' van and similar - prototype?

[EHertsGER]

All

 

Thank you for your time in reading this. I am trying to identify the prototype for the Hornby 'Kitkat' van and similar models ('Prime Pork', for example). It seems the moldings are quite good (accurate?) so I hope to put a decent chassis on it and finish in an accurate livery - aha! But which one?

 

Many thanks,

Marcus

[Black Sheep]

I've always been under the impression that these were, like the longer wheel based mc vitties etc vans, a generic looks about right ex-triang offering that on close inspection bears little resemblance to any prototype but looks about right following a shunting loco around a layout.

[Butler Henderson]

Pat Hammond in his History books on Triang Hornby describes it as "generally agreed the model has the dated look of a Hull and Barnsley van."

Edited January 11, 2013 by Butler Henderson

[Talltim]

I've heard H&BR for the body too, although the chassis is pretty generic and too modern in details.

There was a magazine advert in the 70s/80s featuring a train of KitKat vans behind something like a class 25. IIRC the front few were painted (on the visible side) and the rest were the analogue version of photoshopped. I think they may have been BR standard 12t vans tho'.

[andyman7]

This and another moulding formed the staple for Hornby's 'Closed Van' offerings in the 1970s and 80s. Like wise the chassis were standard items - the picture shows the chassis in use from around 1977 until the mid 1980s; there was a later version with more underframe detail and and an earlier version with separate metal couplings. I used to hate them but found once I reached my 40s that I acquired a rake made up of different liveries - KitKat, Weetabix, Smiths Crisps etc - for some fun workings on what is very much a BR Blue era based project!

[Worsdell forever]

That's reminded me I was going to do one of these conversions. I may have a body somewhere, I believe it is quite accurate, the underframe is a work of fiction as David has shown they can be greatly improved to make a really useful model.

[micknich2003]

From memory, the model is a very good likeness of an H&B van, though without checking I'm unsure which one. Many years ago, I was approaced by an editor of a now defunt model magazine to provide an H&B van drawing, which I duly did. I was told it was requested by a manufacture, now obviously "Triang/Hornby". Put on a decent underframe it makes a good model. Attached, the only two H&B van pictures, I have to hand. Mick.

['CHARD]

I love that last photo, Mick.  Engineers' angle-poise lamps there - shining on what looks like a defunct platform.

 

I confess I never imagined there'd be a 12T van with drop-flap and saloon-doors arrangement, although it does make some logistical sense of course for loading and unloading with sack-trucks or trolleys.

[Metr0Land]

Just stumbled on this on Paul Bartlett's excellent site

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/h35d87e96#h35d87e96

[hmrspaul]

Just stumbled on this on Paul Bartlett's excellent site

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/h35d87e96#h35d87e96

Which is NER and nothing like the H&BR - Kit kat - refrigerator van. Good photos and drawing pages 18-20 of

Tatlow, P.  (2007) LNER Wagons, Volume 2, LNER North-Eastern Area. Wild Swan,. ISBN 978-1-895184-34-7.  Although only a resemblance, the 5 pairs of torpedo vents is correct, most unusual!

 

Paul Bartlett

[Metr0Land]

Which is NER and nothing like the H&BR - Kit kat - refrigerator van. Good photos and drawing pages 18-20 of

Tatlow, P.  (2007) LNER Wagons, Volume 2, LNER North-Eastern Area. Wild Swan,. ISBN 978-1-895184-34-7.  Although only a resemblance, the 5 pairs of torpedo vents is correct, most unusual!

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Maybe I should have been more specific - I was referring to Chards mention of double door plus drop flap arrangement

[ess1uk]

All

Thank you for your time in reading this. I am trying to identify the prototype for the Hornby 'Kitkat' van and similar models ('Prime Pork', for example). It seems the moldings are quite good (accurate?) so I hope to put a decent chassis on it and finish in an accurate livery - aha! But which one?

Many thanks,

Marcus image.jpg

I've got loads of these from the 70/80s in different liveries.

I was thinking about just painting them railfrieght but don't think I'll bother now after reading this topic.

[Boris]

Let's not forget D5061 the Kitkat loco.....

 

(showing my age now!)

[EHertsGER]

All

 

My profound and, admittedly astonished thanks for all the replies. That such a humble question should be answred so comprehensively is, literally, heartwarming!

 

I am off to buy my copy of Tatlow Volume 2 prior to a little work adding a chassis that actually looks the part. I model GER, but got this van and a Parkside NBR 8t van in a 'pig-in-a-poke' eBay auction, along with some D&S GER Vans - my primarly target! The two 'foreigners' seemed too good to chuck out so hence the question. The van will appear in NE livery as I doubt the NBR or H&B strayed to E Hertfordshire much before grouping. But then again...

 

Many thanks and my best wishes to all for 2013!

 

Marcus

(EHertsGER)

[EHertsGER]

The story goes on...so far the van is now complete, but does anyone know what the LNER numbering was for these vans - and where was it applied?

 

I'm that close to adding a pic, but need the numbers...

 

Best,

Marcus

[petethemole]

I have one of these in unfinished projects, with a Ratio LNWR wood underframe, awaiting the 8-shoe fitted brake gear. An appropriate LNER number is HB3792. Possibly the original number with HB added? In grey livery the "N" & "E" were roughly central on the sides either side of the doors. The number was below the "E"; the "HB" prefix larger than the numbers. Some lasted until after WW2 but I wonder if any received LNER bauxite?

 

 

Pete

Edited April 24, 2014 by petethemole

[EHertsGER]

Well mine has...! I understood from the Roche (OK first mistake! perhaps...) they were fitted vans and so would have been Bauxite. Roche's notes (see above) suggest it would have been so, but please do correct me - or allow me not to change color after putting on the lettering!

 

Thanks for the note on the numbering, though. Much appreciated.

Best,

Marcus

[Fat Controller]

I love that last photo, Mick.  Engineers' angle-poise lamps there - shining on what looks like a defunct platform.

 

I confess I never imagined there'd be a 12T van with drop-flap and saloon-doors arrangement, although it does make some logistical sense of course for loading and unloading with sack-trucks or trolleys.

The SE&CR had some vans with a similar door arrangement- Cambrian do a kit of them. I think the L&Y might also have built something similar.

[petethemole]

Oops! got my companies mixed up. Yes the fitted version should be red oxide/bauxite. The van in Tatlow is  very weathered and faded so it looks grey in the photo.

 

Pete

[Buckjumper]

 

 The two 'foreigners' seemed too good to chuck out so hence the question. The van will appear in NE livery as I doubt the NBR or H&B strayed to E Hertfordshire much before grouping. But then again...

 

 

There's a photo of an NER van in the goods yard at Ware in 1911, so no reason why you should exclude an NBR or HBR one. How else would a wagon load of thingamajigs or wochamacallits arrive in Herts from East Yorks or the Borders? As long as in the pre-Group period GER wagons dominate, you can have goods wagons interlopers from anywhere in the country on GE metals...brake vans excepted - they would have stayed on their own lines or lines where running rights were exercised.

[EHertsGER]

There's a photo of an NER van in the goods yard at Ware in 1911, so no reason why you should exclude an NBR or HBR one. How else would a wagon load of thingamajigs or wochamacallits arrive in Herts from East Yorks or the Borders? As long as in the pre-Group period GER wagons dominate, you can have goods wagons interlopers from anywhere in the country on GE metals...brake vans excepted - they would have stayed on their own lines or lines where running rights were exercised.

Oh, yes, I've got round that one already - with MR, NER (though LNER livery), GWR (they seemed to get everywhere and what other excuse can I find for running all those lovely loriots if not the appetite for agricultural machinery in E Herts ?), GNR, GCR and even LNWR in the box having spotted others in those liveries in photographs in and around the area! Trouble is that box of GER wagons is a lot bigger and needs to be finished!

[EHertsGER]

Oops! got my companies mixed up. Yes the fitted version should be red oxide/bauxite. The van in Tatlow is  very weathered and faded so it looks grey in the photo.

 

Pete

Ah, but what about the refrigerated (as this is/was a refrigerated van) ones....white??? Oh, boy, what have I started??? Me, I reckon it was once a refrigerated van and relegated to regular service as a fitted ventilated van since it was getting on a bit. The repaint was so as not to confuse shunters...so there...

[Steve O.]

Hello there,

 

Is this the prototype?

 

http://www.geograph.ie/photo/2338976

 

Cheers, Steve O.

[jwealleans]

Graeme King did some of these in February 2011 and covered them in his workbench thread on the LNER forum.

 

Pictures have been taken down after an Imageshack issue but I'm sure if you ask nicely (he's on here as gr.king)then some might be forthcoming.

 

If you can get a view of Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagons Volume 2 there's all the information you could need.

[EHertsGER]

Oh, dear, that framing issue. Without Tatlow I had merrily sloshed on some paint etc and let it go at that. Now I see what I should have done I am embarrassed to admit such a casual approach. Oh, well, but many thanks for the link to the board. I promise to behave - but I will put up a pic just for fun and proof I do some work occasionally!

Best and many thanks,

Marcus