Parcel & 'Paper Fleets...

[br2975]

My notes also show this list of late 1980’s early 1990’s TPO Workings.

 

After some twenty years I cannot recall the source.

 

Brian R

Lines in FULL CAPITALS are the correct GPO titles for the trains.

SOUTH WESTERN TPO DOWN
Waterloo 22.52 - Southampton - Weymouth 03.32

SOUTH WESTERN TPO UP
Weymouth 22.38 - Southampton - Waterloo 03.36
Stock sets work up and down on alternate nights.

GREAT WESTERN TPO DOWN
Padd 22.25 - BTM 00.35/00.58 - Plymouth - Penzance 06.25

GREAT WESTERN TPO UP
Penzance 19.27 - Plymouth - Bristol 00.32/01.00 - Padd 03.50.
Sets work up/down alternate nights.

BRISTOL - DERBY TPO
BTM 01.10 - Gloucester - BH New St 03.45/04.12 - Derby 05.13

DERBY - BRISTOL TPO
Derby 20.10 - BNS 21.07/21.37 - Gloucester - BTM 23.53.
Stock works out and back from Derby each night.

MIDLAND TPO GOING NORTH
BTM 19.35 - Gloucester - BNST 21.49/22.40 - Derby 23.27/00.19 - Sheffield -
Doncaster - York 02.17/02/30 - Newcastle 04.06.

MIDLAND TPO GOING SOUTH
Newcastle 20.00 - York 21.26/21.49 - Sheffield - Derby 00.12/00.29 -
B.N.ST 01.27/02.02 - Gloucester - BTM 04.28
Sets work north and south, alternate nights.

SOUTH WALES TPO UP
Carmarthen 20.44 - Swansea 21.28/21.46 - Cardiff 22.49/23.03 - Newport
23.19/23.28 - BTM 00.10

SOUTH WALES TPO DOWN
BTM 01.24 - Newport 01.53/02.05 - Cardiff 02.26/02.48 - Swansea 03.58/04.15?
- Carmarthen 05.06.
Passenger train throughout. Stock works out and back each night and returns
to Swansea for servicing.

CARDIFF - CREWE TPO
Cardiff 20.00 - Newport 20.13/20.21 - Hereford - Shrewsbury 22.17/22.25 -
Crewe 23.07.

CREWE - CARDIFF TPO
Crewe 02.04 - Shrewsbury 02.38/02.48 - Hereford - Newport 04.46/04.56 -
Cardiff 05.14
Stock works out and back each night. Passenger train northbound. Stables CF.

WHITEHAVEN - HUDDERSFIELD TPO
Whitehaven 18.50 - Barrow - Preston 22.01/23.09 - MCR Vic - Hudd'field 00.34

HUDDERSFIELD - WHITEHAVEN TPO
Huddsfield 01.06 - Preston 02.20/04.00 - Carnforth - Barrow - Wh'haven 07.09
Stock works out and back each night and stables at Workington. Southbound
working includes Stowage Vans en route Workington to Preston for attaching
to the PRESTON - LONDON BAG TENDER.

SHREWSBURY - YORK TPO
Shrewsbury 22.50 - Crewe 23.26/00.11 - Stockport - Huddersfield - Leeds -
York 02.50

YORK - SHREWSBURY TPO
York 22.34 - Leeds - Huddersfield - Stockport - Crewe 00.11/02.25 -
Shrewsbury 03.02.
Passenger trains throughout. Sets work east and west on alternate nights.

PETERBOROUGH - CREWE TPO
Peterborough 20.25 - Leicester - Derby 21.51/22.03 - Stoke - Crewe 23.16

PETERBOROUGH - CREWE TPO LINCOLN SECTION
Lincoln 20.03 - Newark - Nottingham - Derby 21.30

CREWE - PETERBOROUGH TPO
Crewe 00.44 - Stoke - Derby 01.55/02.10 - Leicester - Peterborough 04.02

CREWE - PETERBOROUGH TPO LINCOLN SECTION
Derby 02.16 - Nottingham - Newark - Lincoln 04.04
Lincoln section adds/detaches at Derby. Both trains are out and back each
night.

EAST ANGLIAN TPO DOWN
Liverpool St 23.00 - Ipswich 00.40/01.50 - Norwich 02.49

EAST ANGLIAN TPO DOWN PETERBOROUGH SECTION
Ipswich 01.01 - Ely - Peterborough 03.09

EAST ANGLIAN TPO UP
Norwich 23.45 - Ipswich 00.55/02.05 - London 03.55

EAST ANGLIAN TPO UP PETERBOROUGH SECTION
Peterborough 23.20 - Ely - Ipswich 01.38
East Anglian Down is passenger train to Ipswich. Peterborough sections
detach and add at Ipswich. Sets work up and down on alternate nights.

NORWICH - LONDON TPO
Norwich 18.45 - Ipswich - Liverpool St 21.04
Passenger train throughout. Stock returns as LONDON - NORWICH BAG TENDER.

DOWN SPECIAL TPO
Euston 20.35 - B'ham 22.18/22.37 - Crewe 23.38/00.01 - Preston 00.49/00.58 - Carlisle 02.09/02.20 - Cartairs - Perth 05.15/05.25 - Aberdeen 07.20.

CREWE - GLASGOW SORTING CARRIAGE
part of DS TPO from Euston, function changing at Crewe. Splits from main train at Carstairs and runs to Glasgow 04.00.

UP SPECIAL TPO
Aberdeen 15.47 - Dundee - Perth 17.40/17.48 - Motherwell - Carstairs -Carlisle 21.13/21.23 - Preston 22.37/22.56 - Crewe 23.50/00.22 - B'ham 01.25/01.52 - Euston 03.58.

UP SPECIAL TPO GLASGOW SECTION
Glasgow dep 19.30, attaches to US TPO at Carstairs.

UP SPECIAL TPO EDINBURGH SECTION
Edinburgh to Carstairs Bag Tender Duty. Formed of one BG + P.O. Staff.

NORTH WESTERN TPO NIGHT DOWN
Euston 22.50 - B'ham 00.29/00.47 - Crewe 01.45/02.11 - Preston 03.13/03.30 -Carlisle 04.45.
One sorting carriage removed at Crewe, returns ECS to London to be part ofnext nights NW TPO.
One stowage tender removed at Preston and sent ECS to Workington for
servicing.
One sorting carriage returns ECS Carlisle - Preston to be part of next nights PRESTON - LONDON BAG TENDER.
Remaining stock continues ECS to Glasgow and forms part of next nights US TPO - Glasgow section.

CALEDONIAN TPO DAY DOWN
Carlisle 20.50 - Carstairs - Motherwell - Perth 00.01. Passenger train throughout.

CALEDONIAN TPO DAY UP
Perth 21.11 - Coatbridge - Carstairs - Carlisle 00.37.
Sets work up and down trains on alternate nights.

CALEDONIAN TPO DAY UP EDINBURGH SECTION
Edinburgh 21.45. Added to Caledonian TPO UP at Carstairs.
Stock returns with Glasgow Section Coach to Edinburgh as Carlisle -
Edinburgh sorting carriage.

CALEDONIAN TPO DAY UP GLASGOW SECTION
Glasgow 21.40 to Carstairs. Other details as Edinburgh Section.

CARLISLE - EDINBURGH SORTING CARRIAGE
Carlisle 02.20 - Carstairs - Edinburgh 04.20.
Added to DS TPO at Carlisle and detached at Carstairs. One remains at
Edinburgh and the other travels to Glasgow ECS, both to form next nights
workings of Caledonian Edinburgh and Glasgow sections.

LONDON - YORK - EDINBURGH TPO
Kings Cross 20.20 - Peterborough 21.29/21.46 - York 00.01/00.17 – Newcastle 01.36/01.52 - Edinburgh 04.13.
Stowage Tended detached Newcastle - forms part of next nights UP NE TPO.
Sorting Cariage continues to Edinburgh - eturns ECS to Newcastle and is also added to next nights NE UP TPO.

NORTH EASTERN TPO NIGHT DOWN
Kings Cross 22.30 - Peterborough 23.32/23/48 - York 01.41/01.53 – Newcastle 02.28/03.30 - Edinburgh 05.45.
Except for one Sorting Carriage, train terminates at Newcastle and forms part of next nights UP NE TPO. The one Sorting Carriage continues to Edinburgh and forms next nights Edinburgh - York TPO.

NORTH EASTERN TPO NIGHT UP
Newcastle 20.54 - York 22.24/22.34 - Newark 23.16/23.31 – Peterborough 01.07/01.19 - Kings Cross 02.47.
Passenger train throughout. Stock forms next nights 2 down workings.

EDINBURGH - YORK TPO
Edinburgh 20.30 - Newcastle 22.44/23.16 - York 00.37.
Stock conveyed to Newcastle on the DOWN NE TPO for adding to next nights UP NE TPO.

 

Edited January 15, 2013 by br2975

[JonHGB]

Brian, this is priceless stuff.

Thank you for imparting the knowledge, and more importantly for taking the time to do so.

Very grateful.

Jon.

[br2975]

Following on ......

.

My brother and I spent the night of Wednesday 19th. August into Thursday 20th. August 1987 on Crewe recording the various day, sleeper, postal and parcels rakes.

.

These are an extract from my notes.

.

47586+18705+21243+80355+80409+84242 (2002hrs ex Cardiff, into Plt.8)
Returned as
47586+80409+80355+21243+18705+92317+93584+93185+93538+93766 (0204hrs. to Cardiff)


47599+18988+84024+80307+80311+84185 (1E24 arr Plat.7 2225hrs ?)
08739+92014, onto rear of 1E24 Shrewsury-York TPO)

arr Crewe 23/08/87
86426+92207+80425+80356+80366+80416+80369+80342+80354+80401+80457+92015+92228+
92225 (1S09 dn West Coast Postal arrived Plat.6 0003hrs.)

86249+92344+80438+80372+80382+80402+80344+80431+80395+80348+80321+80353+80425+
80458+92371 (1M44 up West Coast Postal arrived Plat.5 0015hrs. dep. 0040hrs.)

47463+84281+80314+80310+80515+4873 (York – Shrewsbury TPO, thro’ Plat.5

86226+92237+84044+93126+92224+80204+92233+80981+92245+92320 add Crewe 93226+93624
(1H01 arrive Plat.5 0221hrs.)

47647+80663+18741+94065+94067+80507+84135 (1K83 Manchester newspapers, arrived Plat.5 0350hrs.)

 

I hoped those notes may come in handy one day

 

Brian R
 

[JonHGB]

I hoped those notes may come in handy one day

 

Brian R

 

They certainly have.

Thanks again,

Jon.

[JonHGB]

Incorporating as we now are the Mail stock; what would the 'Stowage vans' in a TPO consist have been, BG's?

Jon.

[Fat Controller]

Incorporating as we now are the Mail stock; what would the 'Stowage vans' in a TPO consist have been, BG's?

Jon.

'Stowage Vans' were purpose built TPO stock; similar to the other TPO vans but open inside to stow sacks of sorted mail from the associated vans with sorting frames. I believe they had gangway doors that could be opened by someone carrying sacks of mail in both hands.

This link will take you to diagrams of the various BR coaches; the Post Office stock is towards the end:-

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Diagram_Book_200_for_issue.pdf

[br2975]

Correct Brian W

.

Original or pre-TOPS codes being:-

POS - Post Office Sorting (van)

POT - Post Office Stowage (van)

.

Brian R

[eastwestdivide]

...

Coverage of NPCCS stock is relatively sparse; there is a book dedicated to Southern Railway stock, but most of the other stuff is to be found as chapters in books on coaching stock. David Larkin did an album of photos during the 1970s, published by Bradford Barton, whilst, more recently, Cheona did a similar one, though obviously with more modern vehicles (or at least liveries).

 

The Larkin one is "BR General Parcels Rolling Stock - A Pictorial Survey

(I've got one, but I'm not selling!)

 

This is the book to get:-

.

"Coaching Stock of British Railways - 1978"

P.Mallaband & L.J.Bowles

pub. RCTS

 

And also the 1976 version of the RCTS book, for a wider selection of pre-BR designs of parcels/newspaper stock. I've got both 1976 and 1978 if you need anything in particular looking up, but again, I'm not selling. 

[JonHGB]

Thanks EWD, I have a few 'period' publications I wouldn't sell on either...

I'll have a look around for what I can sniff out.

Cheers,

Jon.

[Rivercider]

Jon,

to give a little more detail of the Bristol News Vans in particular I have the Bristol Temple Meads Station Working Book for Jan - May 84.

 

1B12 02.15 EWD Paddington - Bristol News arrived  Bristol TM at 04.40 on platform 4.

It later went ECS to Malago Vale sidings  at 05.05 combined with the ECS off 4V01 01.55 Southampton - Bristol.

 

The empty vans returned to London later each day:-

3A21 11.25  EWD Malago Vale - Old Oak Common empty news vans, passed through Temple Meads 11.30 - 12.02 on the Up Through Road.

 

News parcels and mail were dealt with at Bristol Temple Meads, during the day using platforms 2 and 13,

but in the evening and overnight most of the station was given over to this work.

 

Parcel vans were also stabled in the West Sidings (beyond Bath Road Bridge) and Pylle Hill sidings,

The news vans spent the morning at Malago Vale carriage sidings, and other surplus coaches and NPCCS

were kept at West Depot Downside.

 

In my time (1977 onwards)  there was no parcels traffic loaded at Pylle Hiil,

but there were weekly loadings from there in vans of Observer colour supplements which went forward from

Temple Meads on ordinary parcels services,

 

cheers

[br2975]

Again, during 1987 I would try to get a glimpse of the return empty 'Old Oak vans' which would arrive Cardiff late morning (I believe originating at Carmarthen ?) and collect vans dropped off on the 'down' journey earlier that morning.

.

Since time immorial newspaper vans had been detached off a down Padd at Cardiff, and shunted over to either 8/9 or even the Fish Jetty (what is now Platform 0).

.

However, in the mid 1980s someone had a brainwave, and that for operational expedience the news vans would henceforth be shunted down to the Brickyard Siding opposite Cardiff Canton where they could be unloaded directly into delivery vans, under a brand new canopy.

.

Unfortunately, the local scroats wouldn't play ball, and one morning a rake of GUVs went up in flames - much to the annoynace of the local second hand car dealer whose premises were right next to the unloading canopy !

.

Some of the rakes I noted that year, calling at Cardiff included:-

.

11/04/87 Saturday
47473+94001+94003+84288+80202+94014+84160+92010+ (93315+17022+80586, added at Cardiff)

31/07/87 Friday
37278+50034(DIT)+94029+94011+84109+84287+80200+94005+84269+80671

 

But the highlight that day (in fact most of that week) was:-

40122+5350+W5251IC+5476+17165+6528+5253+5851
(1V05 0714 Holyhead-Cardiff/1M86 1300hrs. return)

.

Brian R
 

[Eggesford box]

Just a few things to add.

 

The Cardiff-Crewe TPO and return conveyed passengers, thanks for putting in the consist in br2975 though I expect those in the know would have picked up that from the consist. Can remember going down to the platform at Abergavenny to look for a wallet left by a passenger that got off at Hereford on the Crewe-Cardiff working. Me and the guard roused up the sole passenger in the compartment that the wallet had supposedly been lost in with no joy. Even posted a letter for my grandad, a keen stamp collecter, for the postmark on the same service. It took a fortnight to get to him! 

 

The newspapers for north Devon arrived at Barnstaple on the back of a DMU that left Exeter St Davids at 0507. The van returned from Barnstaple on the back of a DMU that left Barnstaple between 1535 to 1617 (times varied over the years).

[lmsforever]

When I worked for WH Smith in the early sixties our news train came from Paddington ,Maidenhead,H Wycombe to Aylesbury and then onto Bletchley uasualy hauled by a Hymek .When it arrived at Aylesbury all our newsagents had tables set up on the platform ,I took our papers into the bookstall and was out of the weather ,the only perk for working for that firm then.

[eastwestdivide]

From 1984, the return Cleethorpes newspaper empties at Sheffield (bonus of a green 40), with a crop showing the BSK in the centre of the train, and one in front of it, an all-blue BG branded Newspapers, typical of many newspaper BGs at the time.

[eastwestdivide]

And from 1982, a late Saturday night at St Pancras (just got back from a railtour), and they're loading the Sunday papers. On the crop of the delivery van you can just make out The Times, The Sunday Times, The Times Supplements. (Was The Sun/News of the World part of the same empire back then? And if so, did they have a separate van?)

[eastwestdivide]

1986, near Cholsey, a 47 returning to London with WR newspaper empties. Notably a number of all-blue BGs, and I think some of the converted (gangwayed) GUVs referred to in post 15 of this thread. Also the passenger accomodation appears to be a Mk2 BFK. Would that make the train air-braked? I think those converted GUVs were dual-braked.

Edited January 16, 2013 by eastwestdivide

[DerekEm8]

I don't know if this will work but I've attached a file of Manchester Victoria non-passenger workings

for 1985-86.

 

Unfortunately it is extracted from a very faint (and photocopied) hand written copy. The paper/parcels workings are highlighted.

It does show the huge number of freight/NPCS workings which have been lost to rail.

It also shows some of the dated WCML diversions, starting in the June of 1985 but sadly the finish date has not shown up)

 

Man Vic 1985-86.htm

 

 

[Oldddudders]

And from 1982, a late Saturday night at St Pancras (just got back from a railtour), and they're loading the Sunday papers. On the crop of the delivery van you can just make out The Times, The Sunday Times, The Times Supplements. (Was The Sun/News of the World part of the same empire back then? And if so, did they have a separate van?)

N57_0017.jpg

N57_0017crop.jpg

Can't tell you that, but can say that the NPA - Newspaper Publishers' Association - would monitor the departure of vans from Fleet Street premises, and would make representations to BR accordingly. Thus the relevant Control would get a call from their Regional HQ Control saying "10 minutes, Times" which meant that that paper's van could be allowed 10" dispensation on its arrival time at the loading terminal. Otherwise, if a van arrived after the specified loading deadline, it was supposed to be turned away. I suspect this rarely happened, and if there was a problem and a late start, it would be ascribed to "bunching of vans", with arrival times of several vans being quoted in support.

[johnw1]

The East Midlands newspaper vans heading back to London

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5558996550/

 

In the first half of the 1970's the TPO veichle in the Lincoln - Crewe was an LMS designed vehicle in blue and grey

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5890752066/

[Fat Controller]

1986, near Cholsey, a 47 returning to London with WR newspaper empties. Notably a number of all-blue BGs, and I think some of the converted (gangwayed) GUVs referred to in post 15 of this thread. Also the passenger accomodation appears to be a Mk2 BFK. Would that make the train air-braked? I think those converted GUVs were dual-braked.

N56_0023.jpg

N56_0023crop.jpg

The GUVs were both dual-braked and ETH-fitted; I think they also had B4 or Commonwealth bogies. It would appear that some Siphon Gs received ETH during the transition to GUV/BG trains:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h3fd58712#h3fd58712

[The Stationmaster]

The GUVs were both dual-braked and ETH-fitted; I think they also had B4 or Commonwealth bogies. It would appear that some Siphon Gs received ETH during the transition to GUV/BG trains:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrsiphon/h3fd58712#h3fd58712

Quite a few were electrically wired (and possibly heated?) - and my *!$$@/ Shunters kept on pulling the effin ETH cables out of them - because they 'forgot about it'  (mind you they were mere beginners at the art, in separating a pair that were part derailed and lock buffered I effectively pulled the complete end off one).

[Guest D.J.K.]

I don't know if this will work but I've attached a file of Manchester Victoria non-passenger workings

for 1985-86.

 

Unfortunately it is extracted from a very faint (and photocopied) hand written copy. The paper/parcels workings are highlighted.

It does show the huge number of freight/NPCS workings which have been lost to rail.

It also shows some of the dated WCML diversions, starting in the June of 1985 but sadly the finish date has not shown up)

 

Man Vic 1985-86.htm

 

That's a good list.....

 

Couple more I remember from Vic, perhaps gone by 1985 or missing from the list.

 

Blackpool papers, can't remember the time.  A 47/4 for Train heat I think, and 6 ish vans.  It carried sorters, called at Chorley and Preston.

 

Southport papers 3am ish. Real modellers train.  Class 25 and 2 or 3 vehicles, no sorters.  Called at Wigan North West to off load, propelled back out, then called at Bourscough Bdg, then Southport. 

 

Stock types in 78 ish

The usual BR GUVs BGs and CCTs.  Southern 4 wheeled vans common, the odd Southern Bogie van, some Siphons and LMS van Bs usually missing the corridor connection. Probably a few other oddities as well.  As time went by the older stuff disappeared.

 

 

 

Dave

Edited January 17, 2013 by D.J.K.

[w124bob]

Second thread bounce of the day but, re Southport papers. In my time it was a DMU of the 2car converted ex BedPan Rolls Royce type, they were knackred. The unit returned leading on the first passenger just after 6am I think all stops via Atherton. To off load the papers at Wigan NW we used a siding next to the up loop in what was a carpark, the newagents could unload straight to a van as Wigan NW and Wallgate weren't easy for them.

Platform 11 at Man Vic was a dangerous place after about 9pm as you ran the risk of being flattened by by a speeding paper van.

[9C85]

Can anyone tell me, or better still provide a photo of , where the 'Newspapers- return empty to Manchester Red Bank ' ( or Old Oak Common/ Bristol Pyle Hill etc) lettering would be positioned on a GUV or BG dedicated to Newspapers traffic? 

I am putting together a Newspapers train which will be returning to Red Bank from the fictional location of my layout, and I have transfers at the ready for my two latest Lima GUV conversions. 

I have seen a video on YouTube of a Newspapers train at BTM with a brief glimpse of a coach with 'Return to Old Oak Common' branding but I am b###ered if I can find it again! 

 

Thanks in advance 

 

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, 9C85 said:

Can anyone tell me, or better still provide a photo of , where the 'Newspapers- return empty to Manchester Red Bank ' ( or Old Oak Common/ Bristol Pyle Hill etc) lettering would be positioned on a GUV or BG dedicated to Newspapers traffic? 

 

Thanks in advance 

 

This has an Old Oak writing https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/e306c3dfb

From my collection it doesn't seem to have been very common - TOPS did the job. 

Paul