4 COR

[Colin parks]

Well, another Southern Electric EMU is under way. 

 

This one is going to be a challenge in several respects:  a 35mm w.b. Black Beetle motor bogie will need to be stretched a little ( x 1mm);  the 'Alpax' and 'Airstream' type window frames will need to be etched (Pete Harvey is working on this) and fitted to the plastic bodyshells; the intermediate sprung buffers will be converted Hornby ones;  the intermediate corridor connections will be flexible and connected.   Some of the above is going to be reasonably easy (buffers and windows), with the other parts still, let's say, in the 'design stage'.  Added to the list might be flexible jumper cables between vehicles connected with small magnetic ends.

 

The Bogies are to come from SRG's Phoenix coach kit range, various etchings from Roxey, lamp tops from Southern Pride, roof ventilators from Branchlines, buffers and screw couplings from Hornby and the etched windows from Pete Harvey as I said above.  The windows will not have the originally fitted glass baffles on the Airstream sliding panes of the motor coaches as this model will be in very late condition.

 

The brass trusses have been made and this time the vertical 'posts' are prototypically overlapping the horizontals.  It was a false economy of time to try and just fit square-ended posts, as they are harder to keep in place whist soldering.  The picture shows the Parks workmat with a scene well outside my comfort zone: a hot soldering iron, sticky flux (freshly washed off the trusses, which are shown still wet here), solder and metal filings!

 

 

 

 

 

Just for once, this EMU will be built from the chassis upwards -what could possibly go wrong?!

 

For anyone who hasn't seen it - and there can't be many, here is how to make a 4 COR properly!:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NgQUABj3GQ

 

(I hope the preview image is not breaching copyright.  There didn't seem to be any way of just posting the link.)

[4630]

As usual Colin you will have a group of RMWebers following every stage. Good luck with the COR.

[jamie92208]

I loo forward to seeing how this progresses. the 4 COR's were my favourite units when i lived in London in 1971. I used ti love watching them come through Ashford (Middlesex) with the corridor connectors banging from side to side. they had real style.

 

Jamie

[Colin parks]

As usual Colin you will have a group of RMWebers following every stage. Good luck with the COR.

 

Thanks 4630.

 

It might be a long-ish project, but not like the 4 CIG.

 

Colin

 

(Edit:  That bit about the 4 CIG might be tempting fate!)

[Colin parks]

I loo forward to seeing how this progresses. the 4 COR's were my favourite units when i lived in London in 1971. I used ti love watching them come through Ashford (Middlesex) with the corridor connectors banging from side to side. they had real style.

 

Jamie

 

Hi Jamie,

 

Although I did travel on the units, I can't remember the the 4 COR corridor gangways moving about, but many people mention this characteristic.  It is a feature I would like to reproduce if at all possible on the cab fronts - still working on a method for that.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[SRman]

I feel inadequate here! It takes me longer to build a 2-car kit than it take Colin to finish off several 2-car scratch builds!! I may just finish my 2 HAL before he finishes this 4 COR.    

 

As always, I'm sure the result will be superb and I am joining the others here to watch with great interest as it proceeds.  

[Colin parks]

I feel inadequate here! It takes me longer to build a 2-car kit than it take Colin to finish off several 2-car scratch builds!! I may just finish my 2 HAL before he finishes this 4 COR.    

 

As always, I'm sure the result will be superb and I am joining the others here to watch with great interest as it proceeds.  

Hi SRman,

 

Don't put yourself down like that!  This is a race against time to complete the model before an RTR one comes out!  (He says, re-cycling witty comments made by some last year about the 4 CIG project.)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[10800]

I can't remember the the 4 COR corridor gangways moving about, but many people mention this characteristic.  It is a feature I would like to reproduce if at all possible on the cab fronts - still working on a method for that.

 

That would be great but I suspect the scaling down of all the momentum and inertia will make for a bit of a challenge!  Maybe a really heavy corridor end plate and a spring of suitable length and stiffness might work - sounds like fun!

[kintbury jon]

Well the Bachmann Thomas and Underground Ernie range have moving eyes going from side to side.  I don't know whether you could do something similar.  Alternatively put the gangway on loose and run it on really bumpy track!

[BernardTPM]

Although I did travel on the units, I can't remember the the 4 COR corridor gangways moving about, but many people mention this characteristic.  It is a feature I would like to reproduce if at all possible on the cab fronts - still working on a method for that.

 

I suspect the only way to 'fake' the scale mass would be to move it with some kind of motor, otherwise it's just going to wobble at the wrong speed. Perhaps some kind of servo, moving in a the same sort of fashion as it would to reproduce signal arm bounce.

[5Bel]

Hi Colin,

 

Good luck with the 4Cor. Have you thought about using the Hornby motor bogie from the 5Bel. I have just been up to the loft to measure the wheelbase, it is 36mm so correct for the 5Bel and 4Cor at a scale 9'. Also the Hornby Maunsell coach bogies are about the best there is, so could save you some time. I am not sure as to where you would get them from but there are a few firms that advertise Hornby spares. Just as a matter of interest, while I was in the loft I also measured the bogie from my 4Vep. It is 35mm so scales out to 8'9", which is again correct for this unit. Again good luck with the build.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Re6/6]

........ the the 4 COR corridor gangways moving about, but many people mention this characteristic.  

 

 I regularly used Rusham Crossing to the west of Egham and whilst waiting to drive across, these things used to come rattling along at a fair pace and the front gangway was swaying from side to side!

[Colin parks]

Thanks Rod, Jon, Bernard and John for the suggestions re. swaying gangways.

 

This is going to require some thought. I can see now that  getting the things to sway at the sort of speed I operate models could be a challenge.  Photos seem to suggest that the front gangways were designed to clip back fairly compressed to the cab fronts.  This practice seems to have not always been  carried out.  I shall have to see if there is a video clip of a COR 'in action' to get a better idea.  I do note that the connections were top-hung, so maybe I will have to do the same, with some kind of pin-point bearing to allow the front plate to pivot freely.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[10800]

I'm fairly sure there were some shots in amongst the same Southern Railway Films collection on YouTube showing CORs at speed - if I come across any I'll let you know. 

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin,

 

Good luck with the 4Cor. Have you thought about using the Hornby motor bogie from the 5Bel. I have just been up to the loft to measure the wheelbase, it is 36mm so correct for the 5Bel and 4Cor at a scale 9'. Also the Hornby Maunsell coach bogies are about the best there is, so could save you some time. I am not sure as to where you would get them from but there are a few firms that advertise Hornby spares. Just as a matter of interest, while I was in the loft I also measured the bogie from my 4Vep. It is 35mm so scales out to 8'9", which is again correct for this unit. Again good luck with the build.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for taking the time to measure those bogies.  The Brighton Belle one would be about right in the un-rebuilt form with equalising beams.  However, I didn't make it clear in the OP that the bogies are already ordered from SRG.  I have gone for these as they have 'Adjustaride' frames which allows for easy adjustment of the ride height of each bogie.   The motor bogie will be coming from the de-comissioned Kirk 2 BIL which has never spent much time in use on the layout (you might have seen it at Burton last year though).  In fact, the BIL spent most of its 'exhibition' time running on South Pimlico  at Nottingham in 2011!  At least the Black Beetle unit is run-in nicely.

 

Those VEP and BEL wheelbase measurements are interesting.  I do hope Hornby have got the right assembly under their BIL! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

(Edited to correct name of the layout - sorry!)

[Colin parks]

I'm fairly sure there were some shots in amongst the same Southern Railway Films collection on YouTube showing CORs at speed - if I come across any I'll let you know. 

Thanks Rod,

 

I'll have a look for the video clip later.  Really must go and do some work now!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[jamie92208]

Thanks Rod, Jon, Bernard and John for the suggestions re. swaying gangways.

 

This is going to require some thought. I can see now that  getting the things to sway at the sort of speed I operate models could be a challenge.  Photos seem to suggest that the front gangways were designed to clip back fairly compressed to the cab fronts.  This practice seems to have not always been  carried out.  I shall have to see if there is a video clip of a COR 'in action' to get a better idea.  I do note that the connections were top-hung, so maybe I will have to do the same, with some kind of pin-point bearing to allow the front plate to pivot freely.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

That's an interesting problem  Colin.  From memory the gangways were suspended from two hangers by short lengths of cable.   Thread should do to replace that then some lead in the base of the corridor connection should make it swing freely.  It might be possible to have some sort of whisker coming off the front stretcher of the bogie that connects with the base of the corridor so that the natural swing of the body on the bogie produces the desired effect.  As has been mentioned above the swaying of the gangways at speed was a very distinctive feature.

 

Backin 1971 I actually bought a kit of a driving motor car with a precut aluminium bodyshell.  I never completed it but got quite a way with doing the raised panelling usung selotape that I then scribed and peeled away leaving the beading.  I might even have the bodyshell upstairs somewhere in the loft.

 

Jamie

[Colin parks]

Hi Jamie92208,

 

I've had a look at a clip of the Southern Railway Films 4 COR footage on youtube.  From what I can tell, the gangways sway from side to side.

 

As you say, the gangways are suspended from cables which themselves fix into pulleys running along brackets.  It should be possible to arrange some kind of double-hinged fixing at the base of the gangway to allow it to move laterally and use thread  - or perhaps black elastic to give enough flexibility for free movement.  The swaying action only seem to be present on the gangways  that are not clipped back proprerly and are hanging forward at the top, as in the last sequence of the clip.

 

That coach sounds like an old BSL one.  I shall be using plastic sheet for the body work on this model.  There are some good examples of completed BSL kits, but I never did fancy aluminium as a modelling material myself!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[5Bel]

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for taking the time to measure those bogies.  The Brighton Belle one would be about right in the un-rebuilt form with equalising beams.  However, I didn't make it clear in the OP that the bogies are already ordered from SRG.  I have gone for these as they have 'Adjustaride' frames which allows for easy adjustment of the ride height of each bogie.   The motor bogie will be coming from the de-comissioned Kirk 2 BIL which has never spent much time in use on the layout (you might have seen it at Burton last year though).  In fact, the BIL spent most of its 'exhibition' time running on Pimlico Road at Nottingham in 2011!  At least the Black Beetle unit is run-in nicely.

 

Those VEP and BEL wheelbase measurements are interesting.  I do hope Hornby have got the right assembly under their BIL! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Hi Colin,

 

I have some SRG bogies under my 2Hal but of the rigid type. It is nice to have all that weight down low, which will be important with your Cor. Looking at images of the forthcoming 2Bil it seems Hornby have opted for the same one as the 5Bel, we will have to wait and see!

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Ceptic]

Hi Colin.

 

Once again,  this, your latest project, has all the hallmarks of being another gem.

 

I only wish I had your perseverance coupled with steady hands*.

 

*See fuzzy 4-COR, front-end, photos.below...

 

 

 

 

All the best,

 

Frank.

 

.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Colin, we've got you going now, your're a brave man tackling the 4CORs, the village of Llanddewi Brefi is no doubt cut off by snow, so you'll have plenty of spare time, your scratchbuilt plastic bodies should be a sound approach. I too, have some odd BSL/Phoenix bodies, enough to make a 4COR, plus the odd trailers for an alternative 4RES, but only three aluminium roofs! I never liked the aluminium construction of BSL, particularly the roof to side join and the solebar to floor join, so i've always put it off, although i did think of using different roofs.

      I wouldn't worry about swinging gangways, surely this only occurred in the 50-75mph speed range, and since you are modelling the Costa Geriatrica (the South Coast), surely Coastway stoppers wouldn't get above 50mph?

 

                                                         Cheers, Brian.

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin, we've got you going now, your're a brave man tackling the 4CORs, the village of Llanddewi Brefi is no doubt cut off by snow, so you'll have plenty of spare time, your scratchbuilt plastic bodies should be a sound approach. I too, have some odd BSL/Phoenix bodies, enough to make a 4COR, plus the odd trailers for an alternative 4RES, but only three aluminium roofs! I never liked the aluminium construction of BSL, particularly the roof to side join and the solebar to floor join, so i've always put it off, although i did think of using different roofs.

      I wouldn't worry about swinging gangways, surely this only occurred in the 50-75mph speed range, and since you are modelling the Costa Geriatrica (the South Coast), surely Coastway stoppers wouldn't get above 50mph?

 

                                                         Cheers, Brian.

Hi Brian,

 

Not quite cut off anymore, but supplies of 20 thou. plastic sheet are running low in the village.  A group of us will have to walk to the nearest model shop in the morning.

 

Seriously though,  I take your point about the improbability of swaying gangways at slow speed,  but it would be nice to know the model ones could if they got the chance!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Colin parks]

Hi Colin.

 

Once again,  this, your latest project, has all the hallmarks of being another gem.

 

I only wish I had your perseverance coupled with steady hands*.

 

*See fuzzy 4-COR, front-end, photos.below...

 

ScannedImage-4 (2).jpg

 

ScannedImage-7 (2).jpg

 

ScannedImage-9 (2).jpg

 

All the best,

 

Frank.

Thanks for the images Frank. 

 

One thing I note is that the Hornby buffers do not have such thick shanks as the real Spencer-Moulton ones on the 4 CORs.

 

I shall have to bear this in mind when converting them.

 

All the best,

 

Colin 

.

[MJI]

Got to see this!!!!

 

Idea - gangway on end of a wire at bottom, pivoted just inside with a weight on the end to dampen vibration

 

 

G GW

E End

x Pivot

W weight

----- wire

 

 

G-Ex-------W

[Colin parks]

Got to see this!!!!

 

Idea - gangway on end of a wire at bottom, pivoted just inside with a weight on the end to dampen vibration

 

 

G GW

E End

x Pivot

W weight

----- wire

 

 

G-Ex-------W

Hi MJI,

 

I will have a go at the swaying gangways, but won't include them on the model if it compromises the accuracy of the cab front. 

 

From what I have seen on film today,  it is more a question of having two tiny swing arms each with two pivot points betweeen the end plate and cab front: The gangways appear to be moving from side to side with the end plate remaining at right angles to the track - not turning to the left or right.  Getting the authentic movement of the end plate is one thing, but how to model the pleated canvas bellows without interferring the working parts is another.  Although whatever material used to form the canvas bellows would also have to serve the function of limiting the lateral travel and dampen the effects of vibration.  Then there is that canvas shroud over the top of the connection to get in the way!   Hmm,  still thinking! 

 

All the best,

 

Colin