Colin parks Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Having spent too much time thinking about this.... I think that the front corridor should be a seperate unit with no movement within it. It would have to be sitting on a gimble at the bottom. 1mm tube with 1/2mm rod for the axis soldered 90o to each other. This is fixed to floor of the body. Side to side movement might be achieved by hanging a weight on a long arm. I am thinking that a beam (length of rail) in the roof space with the wieght hanging down into a suitable void (rear corridor lobby? The longer the arm the better as you could control both the total amount of movement and with two springs sideways movement. For and aft movement, if desired would be by springing as well. So as the wieght bounces around the movement is replicated in the corridor. The questions are; Is there enough room and is it worth it? Andy Hi Andy, What you describe is similar to what I had in mind. There doesn't seem to be much fore and aft movement involved. These gangways appeared to sway from side to side, rather than tilt to the left and right. As you say, "is it worth it?" - I will find out soon All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks for the pictures Russ, I will take you up on the offer of some hi-res images if you don't mind. Interestingly, the gangway of the motor coach of 3142 is hanging forwards and is in the position that seems to produce the 'sway'. Unit 3131's motor coach has its gangway frimly clipped back. I am sorry if I disappoint anyone, but the firmly clipped back postition with no movement is my plan 'B' if the 'wobbly version fails. All the best, Colin Hi-res images should be in your inbox now Colin. Regards Russ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 A rather cramped DMBTO inner end shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hello Colin. Just stumbled on this thread. Looks like thew boiuld is going to be very interesting. I have a SRG kit which I have never started. I was given to me by the pattern maker in exchange for info in the Hal and EPBs. I can't offer any measurements this time I'm afraid as I wasn't into that until they had all gone. However I'd like to offer you the following photos gleaned from my very early days with a camera. Excuse some of the poor quality, but I have enhanced some to bring out the details. Hope they are of use. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 And 2 more that got missed. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2013 Lovely stuff Dave. I'm starting to put together a 6PUL/6PAN build. Do you by any chance have any photos of PULs and PANs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Fantastic pics Dave, thanks very much for posting. Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Gosh, I just go and take the dog for a walk and all these photos turn up! Thanks Dave. The tenth photo shows the real Newhaven Harbour c. 1971-2, before the semaphore signals were replaced with colour-light ones. This is an interesting shot as the 4 CORs did not run down the Seaford branch much before that time and it looks as if work is underway to rationalise the Marine station track work. The beach sidings can just be made out on the horizon beyond the raised signal arm. returning to the 4 CORs, one ray of comfort is that the vehicles did not have external lamp tops or lighting conduits - hooray! The intermediate corridor connections have bellows which look do-able. As for the front ones - gulp. Thanks too to Ceptic for the photo of the inner end of the motor coach of 3131. A curious thing I read last night in the David Brown book was that each 4 COR unit was converted so that there was only one motor generator and one set of emergency batteries per set. As I understand it, one motor coach lost a generator and the other its batteries. Well, that is two items less to make! As the model will be in late condition, that is how it will be done, but which motor coach lost what?! As the units were handed by virtue of the electrical connections on the trailer third and composite, it would make a difference. I wonder how the preserved unit is equipped/arranged? The model will also have the route indicator roller-blind as in the photo of unit 3143. Thanks to all for the pictures (including the ones from Russ via email - legal ones too!) Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thinking about the "wobbling/swaying" from a practical point of view, it only occured at speed on a fairly long line, will Newhaven Harbour realistically have a length of track long enough to induce the effect, unless Colin is keeping something from us of course? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Many thanks for the photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thinking about the "wobbling/swaying" from a practical point of view, it only occured at speed on a fairly long line, will Newhaven Harbour realistically have a length of track long enough to induce the effect, unless Colin is keeping something from us of course? Mike. Yes Mike, As the model runs along I could hit the side of the layout with a mallet! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Lovely stuff Dave. I'm starting to put together a 6PUL/6PAN build. Do you by any chance have any photos of PULs and PANs? Sorry Re6/6. The Pul and Pan units had 'gone' before I came to photography, I'm afraid. I don't even remember them as I was into LT 'Underground' and trollies prior to 1972 when I obtained my first camera. Even then, I started on LT stuff. Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Gosh, I just go and take the dog for a walk and all these photos turn up! Thanks Dave. The tenth photo shows the real Newhaven Harbour c. 1971-2, before the semaphore signals were replaced with colour-light ones. This is an interesting shot as the 4 CORs did not run down the Seaford branch much before that time and it looks as if work is underway to rationalise the Marine station track work. The beach sidings can just be made out on the horizon beyond the raised signal arm. returning to the 4 CORs, one ray of comfort is that the vehicles did not have external lamp tops or lighting conduits - hooray! The intermediate corridor connections have bellows which look do-able. As for the front ones - gulp. Thanks too to Ceptic for the photo of the inner end of the motor coach of 3131. A curious thing I read last night in the David Brown book was that each 4 COR unit was converted so that there was only one motor generator and one set of emergency batteries per set. As I understand it, one motor coach lost a generator and the other its batteries. Well, that is two items less to make! As the model will be in late condition, that is how it will be done, but which motor coach lost what?! As the units were handed by virtue of the electrical connections on the trailer third and composite, it would make a difference. I wonder how the preserved unit is equipped/arranged? The model will also have the route indicator roller-blind as in the photo of unit 3143. Thanks to all for the pictures (including the ones from Russ via email - legal ones too!) Colin Colin. You are very welcome. Let me know if you want any of them full size. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Colin, Good luck with your 4COR. Regards the front gangways I agree with Clive. I would imply movement by making all the wirer hangers and brackets on the gangway possibly with thread or something very fine. All that gubbings will make the viewer think it is just hanging on the end. Just a thought. Cheers. Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Colin, Good luck with your 4COR. Regards the front gangways I agree with Clive. I would imply movement by making all the wirer hangers and brackets on the gangway possibly with thread or something very fine. All that gubbings will make the viewer think it is just hanging on the end. Just a thought. Cheers. Paul. Hi Paul, You are probably right. All this movement would happen in a space of only 4mm. I can' t think of anything that will work in such a confined space - especially as the end plates have to lean forwrds too. The intermediate gangways are only approx. 6mm deep in the extended position between vehicles. This is just about possible to model as they only have to touch each other and be flexible- but that's all in the thinking stage as yet! It could be a proposition to get all the fine parts you mention custom-etched. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Colin. You are very welcome. Let me know if you want any of them full size. Dave I think I've got enough material to frighten me already Dave! There is a great deal of subtle, fine detail on these units. One picture of yours shows motor coach S11178S with leaf springing on the motor bogie - was that unusual? The model will have to be of a particular unit, with 3109 the favourite as it was stabled at Seaford in its last few years of service. Hopefully it had motor bogies with equalising beam suspension as per the castings I have ordered. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Have a look at the photo of the cars 2 above it. If they are motor bogies there is that photo with the coil centre spring and the photo 2 above they have transverse leaf springs. The bogie on 78 looks like as well as having the shoe beam removed it has had a beam behind the fusebox that mounts above the axleboxes removed going by the shadow of the fusebox itself. Also, 78 has had its motors removed cause you can actually see the gears on the axle. Did they have 2 different designs of motor bogies with different springing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 It is possible it was on replacement bogies for transport for repairs or to a scrap yard while usable materials were recovered from the motor bogie. While only a suggestion (or guess), it is the sort of thing the Southern Railway/Region was good at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Could it be that the leaf spring motor bogies are reclaimed from 6PAN/6PUL units? I've looked at loads of earlier condition 4COR pics and they all seem to have the equalising beam. Or is it that these are the original 4COR bogies rebuilt at the same time as the PANs, PULs and BELs? The motor bogies no doubt got endlessly swapped around during works visits. I'm also rather intrigued by the trailer bogie pic above, where the spring is inverted, has the vehicle been stripped of considerable weight? Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Have a look at the photo of the cars 2 above it. If they are motor bogies there is that photo with the coil centre spring and the photo 2 above they have transverse leaf springs. The bogie on 78 looks like as well as having the shoe beam removed it has had a beam behind the fusebox that mounts above the axleboxes removed going by the shadow of the fusebox itself. Also, 78 has had its motors removed cause you can actually see the gears on the axle. Did they have 2 different designs of motor bogies with different springing? i wonder if these are photos of the 7TC - 701 at Micheldever which had 2 former 4 COR power cars in it's formation? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 To me, it's not Micheldever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 i wonder if these are photos of the 7TC - 701 at Micheldever which had 2 former 4 COR power cars in it's formation? XF XF Pictures 1, 6 (your 78),7 & 8, counting from the top are of unit 3130 taken on 15 Nov 1972 in the old centre roads at Crystal Palace LL. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Have a look at the photo of the cars 2 above it. If they are motor bogies there is that photo with the coil centre spring and the photo 2 above they have transverse leaf springs. The bogie on 78 looks like as well as having the shoe beam removed it has had a beam behind the fusebox that mounts above the axleboxes removed going by the shadow of the fusebox itself. Also, 78 has had its motors removed cause you can actually see the gears on the axle. Did they have 2 different designs of motor bogies with different springing? That is well spotted Chessysmith. I hadn't noticed the lack of motors on that vehicle! As for bogies, I am no expert, but the 5 BEL units had similar bogies to the 4 CORs but were converted to leaf springs over the axle boxes in the fifties. As far as I can tell from the books read so far, the CORs had an improved version of the equalised beams, though what this meant in terms of construction I do not know. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Could it be that the leaf spring motor bogies are reclaimed from 6PAN/6PUL units? I've looked at loads of earlier condition 4COR pics and they all seem to have the equalising beam. Or is it that these are the original 4COR bogies rebuilt at the same time as the PANs, PULs and BELs? The motor bogies no doubt got endlessly swapped around during works visits. I'm also rather intrigued by the trailer bogie pic above, where the spring is inverted, has the vehicle been stripped of considerable weight? Cheers, Brian. You might be right about the swapping of motor bogies Brian. That does not look like an original 4 COR motor bogie under S11178S, the side frames are the wrong shape. It could well be something that happened after withdrawal. The vehicle showing the 'inverted' spring looks more like very worn springing to me. The position of the spring damper looks most odd too. You could never get away with modelling something like that - nobody would believe you! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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