michaelp Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hi, I have some scale drawings (4mm) of some colliery buildings, I would like to have a go building these from card but I don't know what kind of card to use, is there a special card to use for buildings if so where do I get it from, also are card buildings braced to keep their shape and how are they finished, are they covered with brick papers etc. As you will have gathered I know absolutely nothing about card modelling so any pointers and advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hullo, Michael, Welcome to the world of scratch building in card and paper where nothing need cost a fortune to build, materials are readily available and you can be as exacting as you wish to be. I notice you have some 4mm drawings and intend to scratch build some structures from them, quite an advanced level to aim for on your first attempt. May I suggest that you build a garden shed first? Please don't think I am being patronising or rude, but if you were to start with something small, using, say Cornflake packet cardboard [i use a lot of it] and make a mistake you can happily start again, and gain proficiency in marking out your model, cutting accurately, joining walls and floors squarely and so on, and windows, the hardest part of structure building [iMHO] can be very simple. Once you've crossed that bridge, some 1mm white card, some 2mm pasteboard [a heavy, coarse material used by picture framers to give depth to picture mounts], or even off-cuts of mount board scrounged from a framers will be fine. I imagine you will cover your buildings with 'texture papers', the name for paper printed with representations of brick, stone or wooden clap-board, these are available to be downloaded and printed out very inexpensively from Scalescenes.com , many people here use them. Do you have any tools yet? There are some suggestions in the links below which refer specifically to building Scalescenes downloadable models, but the notes on tools etc are equally valid to scratch building, as are the construction tips........ https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Features/Practical_BRM-_Cardboard_Modelling_the_Scalescenes_Way_Part_1/ https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Features/Practical_BRM-_Cardboard_Modelling_the_Scalescenes_Way_Part_2/ https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Features/Practical_BRM-_Cardboard_Modelling_the_Scalescenes_Way_Part_3/ they are in the June, July and August 2012 editions of the 'Structures' section of the BRM guides Anyway, if you have any more questions, do ask, there are some brilliant card modellers here, we look forward to encouraging another! Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Hi Doug, Cheers thats great, thank you very much for the info and links. Yes I have got a few tools, probably enough to get me started with something simple. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Your'e welcome, Michael, I've added a note as to where to find the relevant articles, they seem very difficult to find from the links I have. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Thanks Doug, found them now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 There are a couple of free kits at Scalescenes, such as this one: http://scalescenes.com/products/R002 These are very well designed. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2013 Michael, I was going to suggest you search out work by Doug, as excellent modeller of building using card, but he's already replied. All I can add is follow his advice ! Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted February 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2013 One of my late friends did fantastic modelling in N scale using corn flakes boxes and heavier boxes. The heavier card can be used for bracing or the corners can be filled with stripwood. (the threads about his modelling seem to have disappeared from the other forum.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi again, thanks Stu for your post content, but Michael could do little better than copy some of your work! John, I forgot to mention the free kits from Scalescenes, well worth looking at, although it looks like Michael is aiming at scratch building from drawings. Certainly achieve all the aims of gaining familiarity with the materials. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 As a result of Michael's post I'm going to start a new thread entitled 'The GASTWO Shed', designed by a chum, Shaun, as an introduction to scratch building in card that I think will suit the brief perfectly, so watch this Forum Section as it is entirely appropriate for any region/era.. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I would put in a strog recommendation for tracking down a copy of John Ahern's Miniature Building Construction. It's a little dated & written in the age of austerity, but his techniques have helped me no end. Buying a couple of Scalescenes kits can also help as one can work out how John Whiffen's techniques of wrapping card in textures then layering/laminating them to produce depth works. I was also inspired by Doug here to have a crack at scratchbuilding myself, although obviously as these are early days I'm nowhere near his standards. First effort (a bit rough - this was a mock-up which I then thought I would try & finish off) is a local pub: I then had a bash at an adapted John Ahern design: It was then time to go freelance. These bits were designed by my Father, a retired railway civil engineer so they should be authentic, any failures atre mine in how I wrapped them: And then from the realms of my imagination a section of promenade for a bit of the layout to run by the sea: Apologies for the rather rough-looking railings, this is WIP, but you get the idea: I can't improve on Doug's suggestions for materials, although I have found cereal packets a little problematic because of the shiny side of the card. I now recycle everything, though, for example after a tip here soaking dishwasher tablet/cat food cartons to get corrugated material, shirt and card packaging for glazing etc. One thing I have found invaluable is Evergreen styrene products - rod to make drainpipes & the railings above and strip for glazing bars & the canopy valance on the ticket office/shelter. I have heard of people giving evergreen strip a light sandpapering to give a wood effect! A wide range of glues is also necessary. I use Pritt Stick for attaching papers to large expanses of card, Evostick/UHU for finer work or things that are likely to get knocked around & GS Hypo cement for glazing & really fine work. Enjoy building! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Some good advice has been given but nothing beats having a go, I tried the free scalescenes kits first and they gave me confidence with the materials to have a go. This is my first scratch build, not perfect but I keep it as a reminder of where I started. My second build was from scale plans from a Railway Modeller magazine, and I was suprised at how it came out, take you time and if a piece isn't as good as you think it is, scrap it and cut out another, don't be tempted to make do, and you can produce something quite reasonable while building your skills. Look forward to seeing some pictures as you progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Those are nice, Campaman! Shows what can be done with some imagination & a rummage through the recycling. I still like making the proprietary kits, but there's a great deal of satisfaction in building one's own, or even adding bits to the kits. Another bit of improvisation of mine to add to a kit: Edit to add: This is made of decent quality writing paper folded & glued. I then drew in the joints between the ties with a soft pencil & gave it a wash with some paints from a child's paintbox I found in a drawer at home. The holes are punched out with a leatherworker's punch. It's great fun improvising, although I'm currently scratching my head about how to make a 4mm scale lifebelt for my promenade! I forgot to say to the OP, always remember to get a good layer of Pritt stick on things & be careful where they are stored. The pub model above (among others) had been in a cold garden room over Christmas & for some reason, probably related to idle spreading of the glue & partly the ambient temperature or temperature variations started to delaminate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelp Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi guy's, If my card building only turns out half as good as the photos I will be well pleased, I have already downloaded the free 'Scalescenes' kits so I will have a go with those first. As I said I eventually want to build from plans but I'm more than happy to practice first with other kits to get the hang of things. Looking at the photos it's amazing to think these are card structures. A big thank you to all who have replied with help, advice and ideas and thanks for posting the excellent photos. Maybe I can do this afterall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Good luck with it, Michael. I've found a new enthusiasm since discovering Scalescenes & then this website. I'm still in very early days, but if you look carefully at my bridge parapet Doug has inspired me to start doing things like cutting out the blue bricks. He was not joking in another thread about how painstaking this is. The parapets are a scale 4' & just the strips for these took ages. Hate to say it, but I may have to borrow an aged relative's magnifier anglepoise lamp thing if i'm doing any more of that work. Another thing to add to your shopping list is a good cutting board. I was using my old modelling board from my childhood, known as the TV Top (it was a bit of scrap ply cut out when the front of TV sets were made) which was a little warped & starting to disintegrate. I got sick of getting little slivers of wood in my glue & invested in a proper one & the old board is now used for painting only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Another thing to add to your shopping list is a good cutting board........[mat?] [my italics] Very good suggestion, they do two things, as they heal themselves and close up cuts, they stop your blade being 'lead astray' by a previous cut line and they make those expensive blades last longer before they need replacing. Incidentally, when shopping around for a replacement cutting board in UK I found they were considerably cheaper in the dressmaking and quilting section of the large 'Craft' supermarket I was in.......... Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 You're right, Doug, I did mean cutting mat. Also find the grid on them very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadrabbit Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 On the matter of glues - I see that Pritt-Stick is recommended. Can someone tell me how to get an even layer? My 'stick' gives out glue in stringy blobs which do not give a nice flat finished surface. Do I just need a new 'stick'? Has anyone tried the (expensive) but easy to use spray glue? There are two kinds - the instant grab, and the repositionable kind. If so, how long does this glue, or any of the others, last before delaminating? Lots of questions, but I get really frustrated when something I've given a lot of time and effort to slowly disintegrates before my eyes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2013 I use the cheaper supermarket own brand glue sticks - they don't seem to blob as much ( and are cheaper !). Chubber of this parish recommends a wallpaper seam roller to remove any possible bubbles & lumps - have to say it's very good advice ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Edward Posted March 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2013 I've always used the spray glue "3M Spray Mount"(repositional) and so far I have had no problems over about three years or so. It is expensive but lasts a long time. On corners and small pieces I brush on a very fine layer of craft PVA glue. I mentioned the spray method on this forum before and a very experienced modeller commented that it won't do for exhibition layouts which I presume it would be the constant exposure to the varying atmospheric conditions. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I've said it before, worth repeating: I print on to A4 size sticky labels (Rymans or Staples). These are then put on to plasticard sheet, which is then cut out and glued with Mekpak etc. Slight modifications are needed in odd places due to a standard thickness of sheet, where cardboard would be varied, but easily overcome. Matt varnish (B&Q) over the completed build to seal it. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I've said it before, worth repeating: I print on to A4 size sticky labels (Rymans or Staples). These are then put on to plasticard sheet, which is then cut out and glued with Mekpak etc. Slight modifications are needed in odd places due to a standard thickness of sheet, where cardboard would be varied, but easily overcome. Matt varnish (B&Q) over the completed build to seal it. Stewart Hi, Stewart, Michael has indicated that he wanted to use cardboard, but the idea of printing onto self-adhesive labels isn't a bad one, personally I prefer this method for attaching strips of roof tiles or slates. Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubber Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Hi, All, As promised earlier I have posted a little 'taster' card model here..... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69098-print-cut-and-stickshauns-stone-hut/ Good luck, Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Apologies for the rather rough-looking railings, this is WIP, but you get the idea: Enjoy building! Rough? that's not rough, that's excellent. You've actually inspired me to have a go at scratch building instead of just using scale scenes - it'll be in N but still going to give it a go. On the matter of glues - I see that Pritt-Stick is recommended. Can someone tell me how to get an even layer? My 'stick' gives out glue in stringy blobs which do not give a nice flat finished surface. Do I just need a new 'stick'? Has anyone tried the (expensive) but easy to use spray glue? There are two kinds - the instant grab, and the repositionable kind. If so, how long does this glue, or any of the others, last before delaminating? I presume you're referring to 3M's Spray mount / photo mount? If I remember correctly, photo mount is stronger but more instant, the standard spray mount I've had things peel away, putting a bit of pritt stick or similar (Scalescenes recommends UHU stick if I remember correctly (lots of remembering today seemingly) onto the edges of the model just to make sure the edges of the texture sheet are stuck securely. I'd also recommend a proper metal handled scalpel such as a swan morton, personal preference of blade is a 10A as it gives a nice cutting area and has a point for lifting and positioning. I've been slumming it with a stanley knife lately as I lost mine in a house move, it's not as good! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I blush, Black Sheep. Essentially this is Scalescenes paper, Evergreen rod, some beads from my Mother's sewing box & a manhole cover from Langley. The stairs were built like the Scalescenes footbridge kit - a series of pieces of thick card wrapped in paving slab paper from the platform kit. Each is smaller than the previous by the going of the step below. I was a bit lazy with the riser making these the height of a piece of card wrapped in paper on both sides - the height of the promenade was then dictated by how high I was prepared to make the steps. Completed & with a little model telescope (biro inner, Evergreen rod & a bit of old sprie): Here it is finished off & in situ: I still have a bit of a list of the kits I want to buy, but scratch building is the way ahead for anything that isn't commercially available & makes the layout unique. For example the round tower in the background is elements of the retaining wall kit wrapped around an old crisps tube... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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