Coach bodging

[Londontram]

Well I'm sorry mate you were doing so well but you've let it down right at the end! I think those pillows in the sleeping compartment should have an embroidered monogram in the corner. With out it the whole coach is ruined. Just think all that effort for nothing 

 

 

PS. isn't jealousy a horrible thing. Steve

Edited December 19, 2013 by Londontram

[uax6]

Well I suppose I should also paint the bedding the correct colours, but I've run out of Tartan paint too!

 

Now that monogram, would it still be WCJS or would it be LMS? Questions.......

 

Andy g

[Londontram]

Drat...... you've caught me out 

[JCL]

Well I enjoyed that, and those beds through the window look very comfortable. I'm really looking forward to the bow pen tutorial though!

 

[uax6]

Glup! I have quite a collection of bow pens now, I suppose I should give a hint on how to 'restore' one so that it will work. I also need to spray up some sheets of plasticard so that I can practise!

 

Andy G

[JCL]

As my sister in law would say, hurrah!

 

Edited to say jeez, spelled law incorrectly.

Edited December 19, 2013 by JCL

[uax6]

Do I take it that you have a bow pen then? I'll show you mine if you show me yours.....

 

Andy G

[Buhar]

I think the figure needs a bit of extra paint in the knicker department, bblue briefs aren't really indicative of the 1920s.

[uax6]

I think the figure needs a bit of extra paint in the knicker department, bblue briefs aren't really indicative of the 1920s.

Do you have any pictures so that I could get it correct. I wasn't allowed to google for any...... ;-{

 

Andy G

[Colin parks]

Hi Andy,

 

I have enjoyed looking through the posts on your coach building. I can see you must have read the David Jenkinson book on the subject judging by the way you have dealt with the panelling going around the corner at the join between the two bodies like that. The plasticard beds and pillows were rather amusing!

 

So, this is all work done pre-cutter. I look forward to seeing what follows. Have you had a chance to produce any sides laminated (in the way you described to me) yet?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[uax6]

Colin,

 

Funny enough I have, and yesterday was spent laminating up the first part of them (although I have decovered 'issues' with the set I'm using I'm carrying on with them to see what other problems I discover along the way, so I can modify the drawings).

 

When I got home last night I discovered a parcel of more plasticweld, which was timely as I'm right at the bottom of my bottle..

 

I'll start writing up on here soon.

 

Andy g

[Londontram]

so when you get it right you'll be doing commissions.....ye...right....ye.....please

[uax6]

Well,

 

I have a list of HR, MR, LNWR and standard LMS coaches first, but if anyone wants to make them up after I have drawn them out they are welcome.

 

There are some CR on the list, but they are well down....... Unless you want to do the tracing and I'll cut them..... ;-)

 

Andy G

[Londontram]

I was just kidding mate i'm just envious of your skills and getting great pleasure from your reports. Steve

[JCL]

HR, LNWR? Sounds a bit foreign to me

[uax6]

HR, LNWR? Sounds a bit foreign to me

I can't help it if your not enlightened yet....... ;-}

 

Andy G

[uax6]

So some of you know that Jason (JCL of this parish) has corrupted me. He started to design and make a M&GN coach on his Silhouette Cameo machine. The results were really impressive, and after downloading the software he helped me to draw out my first coach side. For this we've go for a coach that I've tried on three occasions to make by hand and failed at.

That coach? Oh its a HR 48'6" Lavatory third. Now this has what David Jenkinson described as 'Scottish panelling' or 'three layer' panelling, which pushed it into his more difficult coaches to make!

 

The basic approach was to scan a copy of the drawing and then using the software draw the panelling. This then has to be striaghtened up, made consistant, tweaked, re-drawn etc, etc. Then when we are happy you then have to break it up into the layers to be cut. Quite a job.

 

Heres just a small amount of the panel work for this coach:

 

 

The different colours show the different layers, green being the top and blue the bottom.

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Also, blue will be a window opening. If this were a door section, then the door would be scored into the appropriate layer and the lines would be a fourth colour to differentiate them from the three layers of cut lines.

 

We tried to make sure that the gaps between each element was consistent. Because the plans were drawn in pen and ink, sometimes the elements on the plan were found to be slightly out of position - that said, we are talking about less than a millimetre.

Edited December 20, 2013 by JCL

[Ron Heggs]

So some of you know that Jason (JCL of this parish) has corrupted me. He started to design and make a M&GN coach on his Silhouette Cameo machine. The results were really impressive, and after downloading the software he helped me to draw out my first coach side. For this we've go for a coach that I've tried on three occasions to make by hand and failed at.

That coach? Oh its a HR 48'6" Lavatory third. Now this has what David Jenkinson described as 'Scottish panelling' or 'three layer' panelling, which pushed it into his more difficult coaches to make!

 

The basic approach was to scan a copy of the drawing and then using the software draw the panelling. This then has to be striaghtened up, made consistant, tweaked, re-drawn etc, etc. Then when we are happy you then have to break it up into the layers to be cut. Quite a job.

 

Heres just a small amount of the panel work for this coach:

 

panel 1.JPG

 

The different colours show the different layers, green being the top and blue the bottom.

 

Andy G

 

Hi, Andy

 

Yours and Jason's approach to layering is very similar to my approach with the Bridge Layers/Laminations. I first drew all the bridge outlines and visible intermediate lines in different colours, from reference to photos, then consigned each to a separate layer. Then by switching on different pairs of layers, was able to decide which lines/layers were of the same set to produce a lamination. All the separate laminations were then transferred to new layers, and the original layers switched off

 

For the cutting DXF file, all the lamination layers were copied into a separate drawing on layer 0 set at colour Black, and arranged in rows within an A4 sheet sized border. This entailed three separate drawing DXF files

 

Fiddly process, but it ensured that the final cutting and building represented the prototype, which is no longer with us, being demolished in 1973, to enable the building of the Beetham Tower/Hilton Hotel on Deansgate

 

Ron

[uax6]

A quick word about the way I'm building up the layers for the coach sides. To get the correct profile and the shape and look of the body I am using several layers:

 

 

The green panel is the outer panel fret for the lower bodyside.

Red is the main body panel. This is plain at the lower side and has window and panel cut-outs at the top.

Yellow is what I call (incorrectly!) the bolection layer. This just has cut outs for the windows. These are 0.5mm smaller that the cutouts in the main body layer, so that they can repesent the bolections on the real coaches. If the real things have protruding bolections then plastic rod can be cemented to these.

The Blue layer is a droplight layer. This has the droplights cut in it (for the doors and toilet windows on this coach) and has large cut outs around the quarterlights which allow glazing to be dropped in from above.

The brown layer is the backing layer. This has window cut outs that are slighty larger than the other layers, and serves to hold the glazing in place (both in the previous layer, but forming the rear of the side in panel, and for the droplights by allowing them to be pushed in and secured with solvent). This layer also allows the main body layer to be cement to it at the bottom to get the tumblehome right.

 

As it is mainly a build up of laminations construction is slow. No more than two sheets are laminated together a day, to allow the solvent (plastic weld) to evaporate off completely before the next layer is added. This helps to stop the solvent from becoming trapped and causing the sheet to distort.

 

Andy G

[Buhar]

Hi Andy

 

Plasticard lamination seems to be more akin to witchcraft than science. Some people, Holt, Jenkinson and Ron with his little bridge from Manchester seem to just get on with it and produce amazing work. Yet I`ve experienced serious warping on quite small pieces, van sides and the like. I`ve seen comments about uneven numbers of layers, type of solvent, the grain in the material and suggestions about applying the solvent only to limited areas. It`ll be really interesting to see how you get on with those sides, especially with the two air pockets that people seem to warn against.

[Colin parks]

Hi Andy,

 

As I have said in our PMs recently, it is going to be a voyage of discovery to laminate so much 10thou. sheet. The method that has worked for me is: drill 0.5mm vent holes pitched at 10mm on larger areas of side sheeting; use Liquid Poly; apply with an 00 synthetic bristle brush; avoid excess solvent collecting in corners and as you have mentioned, leave each process for 24hrs at least before commencing on the next layer. David Jenkinson advocated building coaches in batches for the very reason that it avoided the temptation to rush the work on any one side.

 

The potential trouble spots for solvent damage would appear to be at the bottom of the yellow layer where it touches the red layer and likewise with the bottom edge of the blue layer. It is far easier to add more solvent to joints that have not had enough than flood the area with too much. I am not quite sure how it would look, but if the red layer was cut from 20 thou. the building up of the laminations would be less problematic and the thicker sheet is more likely to take an even curve to form the tumble home.

 

Also,perhaps it would be better to think of what is to be avoided as 'solvent inclusions' which continue to melt and damage the plastic surface. Air pockets are not going to harm the plastic. Air is fine - unless full of solvent fumes!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[uax6]

Well I have been slowly laminating the proto sides, and the results are promising. No real distortion is evident (although on of the pair has got a droop in the centre, so will rock when you put it against a steel rule! Now if I had been making a 6 wheeler I actually want to produce that effect!). I am though getting issues around the top of the coach. The two layers (the red layer and the bolection layer beneath it) would appear to not be strong enough to hold themselves straight. I've order some 15thou sheet, so will try making the both these layers in thicker material. Indeed i may well use 2o thou for one of them. Indeed i feel 20 will be used for the rear backing layer. This will make the side thicker, but at the end of the day that is not that much of an issue.

 

Andy g

[Colin parks]

Well I have been slowly laminating the proto sides, and the results are promising. No real distortion is evident (although on of the pair has got a droop in the centre, so will rock when you put it against a steel rule! Now if I had been making a 6 wheeler I actually want to produce that effect!). I am though getting issues around the top of the coach. The two layers (the red layer and the bolection layer beneath it) would appear to not be strong enough to hold themselves straight. I've order some 15thou sheet, so will try making the both these layers in thicker material. Indeed i may well use 2o thou for one of them. Indeed i feel 20 will be used for the rear backing layer. This will make the side thicker, but at the end of the day that is not that much of an issue.

 

Andy g

Hi Andy,

 

Thicker sides will make the sides more sturdy and only a bit thicker - even David Jenkinson's coach sides were over scale thickness even in 7mm. An experiment using his methods of construction applied to 4mm scale might be interesting. As you know he used to make a box-shaped interior then apply the sides (and ends)to that.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[MikeTrice]

Well I have been slowly laminating the proto sides, and the results are promising. No real distortion is evident (although on of the pair has got a droop in the centre, so will rock when you put it against a steel rule! Now if I had been making a 6 wheeler I actually want to produce that effect!). I am though getting issues around the top of the coach. The two layers (the red layer and the bolection layer beneath it) would appear to not be strong enough to hold themselves straight. I've order some 15thou sheet, so will try making the both these layers in thicker material. Indeed i may well use 2o thou for one of them. Indeed i feel 20 will be used for the rear backing layer. This will make the side thicker, but at the end of the day that is not that much of an issue.

 

Andy g

Got any photos?