Coach bodging

[uax6]

It's amazing how you can trundle along not really getting anywhere, and BAM! all of a sudden you suddenly have something that looks something like what it should.

 

I've been quite lucky, and it would seem that swtiching from plastic weld to lemonene has helped with the distortion issues, and (Touching the walls of the box!) it appears that everything is still striaght. Its good stuff and leaves a lovely clean lemon fresh smell!

 

Andy G

[uax6]

Today was seating day. I'm using ratio seats, they are cheap and have the right profile. Fitting them around the window retainers was interesting! The big problem with these seats (and I guess all of this sort of type) is that you can see the edges against the windows. To get round this I filed the ends of the seats to give a sort of 'upholstered' look:

 

For the seats that are on the partition to the toilets, the seats needed an end. Look through HR carriages I found an outline for a seat end (I might have been for first class, but hay you're not going to tell are you?) and drew one out:

 

I'll keep that as a template, and so I drew out four more for this coach. I stuck them together to file to shape:

 

The end results:

 

And fitting them to the seats:

 

The seats were secured into the coach:

 

It was then time to put the underframe under the body. This underframe is the one salvaged from the previous body that warped, it needs a bit of repair here and there, but its definitely usable. It is just cemented around the solebars:

 

As the frame had bent down slightly, so I put some weight on the top, with the coach sat on its bogies, to make sure it all sticks and straightens up. It was left like this for an hour:

Another use for a bardic battery!

 

I'll start some underframe detailing tomorrow.....

 

Andy G

 

[uax6]

I decided that the stepboards would be the first thing to make today, as the underside is unpopulated it makes it nice and easy to get at the inside of the solebars to glue them. Two lengths of 20thou 3mm wide were cut and then notched to go around the queen posts and the headstocks:

 

 

They were cemented into position with the lemonene. I then put a bogie on and worked out were the dynamo should be, and superglued in in place (The castings are 247 developments LNWR ones):

 

 

Then it was brake hangers, and the rods from the bottom of the vacuum cylinders. All cut out of 20thou. I've made a master of each, so that I can scan them and in future will cut them on the cutter out of 10thou and laminate them:

 

 

The rods are 0.45 brass wire:

 

 

They were cemented in place and left to dry, and when dry the cast cylinders were drilled to take the rod and them superglued in place. You'll also note the battery box casting has been glued in place too:

 

 

While that was setting I made up the bracket for the lighting regulator. I have to admitt that I have found no photos of this coach on the brakegear side when running with electric lights, but there is a photo of a Thurso Compo showing that it was fitted with it, so I guess that this must have been added when conversion took place to them all. The frame is 1mm plastruct angle and the box is four bits of 1.5mm square rod glued together with the top surface rounded off:

 

 

And with it in place:

 

The bogies were added, but the screws haven't been done up as I left my drill bits at home, they are just nipped into the plastic to stop them falling off:

 

 

Then I got the full brake out and decided to play around just taking photos. You'll see I tried to recreate *that* photo of this coach that appears in so many HR books. I'm not sure it works without a roof and paint!

 

Then I placed them side by side on the table so you could see the difference in length:

 

I'll have to make the roof next, but that will probably be in a fortnight when I next get an afternoon shift. I must order some buffers too, and I think I'm going to get an etch of Dingham couplings to see what they are like, and if they will work under gangway connections.

 

Andy G

 

 

 

[flubrush]

 

Then its been back to the full third, the corners were chamfered to 45* so that the body could be assembled:

DSC06417.JPG

 

 

Andy,

 

When joining up sides and ends of coaches with panelled ends,  I arrange for the thickness of the sides to be the same as the outer panelling on the ends,  and reduce the width of the ends by the thickness of the outer panelling.  Then the sides can be butt joined with the joint disguised by the panelling.

 

 

This is the end of a Caledonian 48ft coach.  The closer corner is a bit out of focus,  but the far corner shows the join with the side providing the end panelling.  The whole end still needs a bit of finishing to disguise the joins on the horizontal panelling,  and the tops of the sides need a small amount of filler to complete the arc shape of the ends.

 

Jim.

Edited June 16, 2014 by flubrush

[N15class]

I use the sides on my coaches to make the end beading too. But my ends are fitted after glazing as the glazing is slid in from the ends. As this then means the laminates of the sides are the same the whole length which helps stop bowing.

[flubrush]

I use the sides on my coaches to make the end beading too. But my ends are fitted after glazing as the glazing is slid in from the ends. As this then means the laminates of the sides are the same the whole length which helps stop bowing.

 

Oops.     I should have said that my glazing is added from the top...

 

 

...as in this example of a Drummond four wheeler.

 

Jim.

[MikeTrice]

Based on your current work I am not convinced that "bodging" is still appropriate. I think you have gone beyond that.

 

Well done.

[Portchullin Tatty]

Andy & Jim,

 

Both of your efforts look great and this is certainly a good way of capturing panelled coaches.

 

If you are not familiar with it already, it is well worth getting David Jenkinson's "Carriage Modelling Made Easy".  He was a stunningly talented carriage builder (pretty much in plasticard throughout) and he will have a lot of tips that are worth getting to grips with.  I have been lucky enough to visit a couple of his layouts and I can vouch for how talented he was.

 

Andy, plate over the rear of the battery box? 

 

 

 

Mark

[uax6]

Based on your current work I am not convinced that "bodging" is still appropriate. I think you have gone beyond that.

 

Well done.

I hope you mean that my efforts are ok then? They have many flaws still, but are certainly much better than I would have been able to do freehand.

 

 

Jim & Peter,

Funnily It hadn't occurred to me to use the end or the side as a bead... The ends of the HR drummond coaches have a slighty non-standard bead arrangment, in so much as the edge bead insn't on the edge, but set back slightly, with a little curving bit just under the roof that reaches the cantrail of the side. Should be able to make the edge of the side be the bottom layer though.

 

 

How would the matchboarded end work like this though?

 

 

Mark,

DJ's book is somewhat of a bible to me, and started me off with that WCJS sleeper, which proved I could build coaches. You are right as well, the back of that battery box does need a plate over it, thanks.

 

 

I've been thinking about the painting aspect of these coaches, they will be sprayed with rattle-cans of BMC damask red (ok it's rover these days), and then I'm going to paint the beading yellow (I'll have to look up which colour yellow it should be!) and then I'll get one of my (many) bow pens out to try and rule a black line down the centre of the bead. Mind you that will be some time off yet!

 

 

News on the etches: It appears that there has been a mix up in communication between me and 247, with both of us waiting for each other to do something, but not telling either side what that was! So thanks to a bit of 'cat butlering' at 3 am which meant that i could get back to sleep again, I sorted the mess out and sent an email with the required dimensions at 4.15am. Hopefully things will now move apace! Also these etches will be useful for most Scottish carriages and LNWR versions, the only things not being correct for the latter will be the commode handles, and the only bispoke HR parts are the brake soild v-hangers...

 

 

If any of you out there have some pictures (or drawings) of the boxes that fit on the ends of coaches that house the train lighting control gear (either gas or eleccly) could you Pm them to me please, as i might just be able to get some covers on the etch, which will give a bit more end detail......

 

 

 

Andy G

Edited June 17, 2014 by uax6

[ThePurplePrimer]

I only just found this thread

 

Very impressive work and some good tips too - bookmarked

[flubrush]

Funnily It hadn't occurred to me to use the end or the side as a bead... The ends of the HR drummond coaches have a slighty non-standard bead arrangment, in so much as the edge bead insn't on the edge, but set back slightly, with a little curving bit just under the roof that reaches the cantrail of the side. Should be able to make the edge of the side be the bottom layer though.

 

 

How would the matchboarded end work like this though?

 

Andy,

 

On the Drummond Caledonian four wheelers,  the outer beading on the ends was in from the sides.  I cut the ends to the outside of the beading and the sides butt joined on to them with the beading edges disguising the join. 

 

 

I find that this way of joining sides and ends can help a lot when dealing with the complex curves you often get on pre-Grouping coaches.

 

I haven't thought about matchboard ends - the Caledonian didn't go in for that.

 

Jim.

[uax6]

Jim,

 

That is a lovely looking body, and I can see how you did the end now, thanks.

 

I'm afraid that the chamfered corners might have to stay on the matchboarded ends! But I'll have a look into it.

 

Looks like my etches would fit your 4wheeler nicely.... ;-)

 

Andy G

[flubrush]

 

Looks like my etches would fit your 4wheeler nicely.... ;-)

 

 

Andy,

 

My coaches are in S scale. 

 

Jim.

[uax6]

You're cheating then! Size must make it easier.  I'm sure the etches could be enlarged to your scale...

 

Andy G  ;-)

[flubrush]

You're cheating then! Size must make it easier.  I'm sure the etches could be enlarged to your scale...

 

 

 

Andy,

 

It's only about 17% larger than 4mm so you don't gain much advantage in size when making fiddly things.

 

Jim.

[uax6]

Oh I don't know, when you have fat fingers *any* increase in size is a help!

 

Andy G

[flubrush]

Oh I don't know, when you have fat fingers *any* increase in size is a help!

 

 

 

And that's the reason I've been using a milling machine for coaches.  I had hand built coaches using the Jenkinson system for quite a few years but when I started on the Drummond four wheelers three or four years ago,  the results,  to me,  were dire - probably an accumulation of age,  dodgy eyesight, etc., i.e. in the seventh age of man.    The milling machine takes a lot of my present shortcomings out of the equation.

 

I've been following your "bodging" thread with interest since it is another way of achieving success, looking at what you have built,  and a lot less expensive!!   I might just get myself a cutter to use with the milling machine.

 

Jim.

[Portchullin Tatty]

 

I've been thinking about the painting aspect of these coaches, they will be sprayed with rattle-cans of BMC damask red (ok it's rover these days), and then I'm going to paint the beading yellow (I'll have to look up which colour yellow it should be!) and then I'll get one of my (many) bow pens out to try and rule a black line down the centre of the bead. Mind you that will be some time off yet!

 

 

Straw for non-corridors; gold for corridors.  Black line to the centre with a very narrow red line to either side of the black if you are a masochist!

 

I have some Bob Moore lining pens to try; which I must do soon.

[uax6]

Straw for non-corridors; gold for corridors.  Black line to the centre with a very narrow red line to either side of the black if you are a masochist!

 

I have some Bob Moore lining pens to try; which I must do soon.

 

Ah, what I ment was to look up what colours Coachmann uses, he mixes humbrol enamels number 7 (light buff) and 69 (yellow) 50:50. If it's good enough for Larry this will be what I'll use. I'l pass on the red line mind!

 

It will be the first time I've attempted to fully line out a coach, but I plan to put the yellow on first and then rule the black down the middle. This will work on the panelled stock quite nicely, but the matchboarded stock will be more difficult because of the lack of a raised line to follow. Which reminds me, I need confirmation that the fully lined matchboarded stock were lined around the matchboarding as a panel between the doors. And then I need to make a block to hold the coaches on their sides so I can put the ruler on them without the body moving.

 

Andy G

[uax6]

The end of the summer holidays is approaching, and the hiatus from building is almost at an end.

 

The postman brought a parcel from 247 Developments today, which contained my long awaited etches. So heres some shots of them:

 

The general view of the fret, with Annabelles ruler along the top for size:

 

So whats on the fret?

Starting top right and heading clockwise around this picture we have:

Vacuum cylinder push rod cranks (2) (for use with 247 cast vac cylinders)

Gas cylinder gauges (4)

Train alarm end brackets (4, for doubling up into two pairs)

Luggage van door handles (These are standard across Scotland, and also at least the LNWR)

Door T handles (18)

Door Commode Handles (16)

 

On the next photo we have (from right to left):

Commode handles again

Lighting control handles z shape (for the ends of HR corridor stock, 4 off)

Lighting control handles plain (for non-corridor stock 2 off)

Inbetween the plain lighting control handles we have some brake gear pull rods and angle pulls (2 of each)

Door vents (24)

Solid V hangers (5)

 

This photo shows the 18 end steps, complete with tread detail.

 

and this final photo shows the underside of the v-hangers so you can see the fold mark

 

Now apart from the solid v-hangers and the commode handles (which seem to be a Scottish thing) the rest of the fret is usable for all pre-grouping coaches. To that end Gary at 247 is thinking about marketing them, and those interested are welcome to register their interest with him (info@247developments.co.uk). Cost per fret is looking like £10.

 

Andy G

 

[uax6]

Yesterday I finally got round to doing some more coachwork on my own coaches, having been doing some odds and ends for others, and having a week of being visited a lot.

I wanted to start getting the etches onto the two coaches built up so far, so that I could get them closer to the paintshop.

 

I started with the footsteps. These are designed to fold up, so to that end I folded the half-moon shaped kick plate up, and then half folded the understep round. This was so that I could get some superglue inside the bend so that the finished bend would be held tight. With the glue inside, the steps were then bent fully and then clamped in the jaws of some small bulldog clips:

 

Now the etchings are designed so that the tag can be either passed through a hole in the body, or bent down to act as a bracket. I prefer drilling and passing through, so I re-drilled the holes I had already made in the body at 0.45mm again (just to make sure the steps would fit). They were then superglued into position, and the results are shown here:

 

I put the end steps on the lav compo to:

 

I then fiddled with the door handles to see what they looked like. These are pesky so-and-so's! Two flew off never to be seen again. These need folding very closely to the handle itself, and haven't got a half etch fold line, so I used my knife and marked where I wanted the bend to be. This helped to get the fold close to the handle. Now sadly the photos below aren't the best as I struggled to get the camera to focus on such a small item! It's a temporary fitment, as it needs to be put on after painting. I also need to get some lil-pins for the van handles.

 

The last thing I did was to make the end handrails. These were measured by laying over the diagram, and then putting in drilled holes. The result is quite pleasing:

 

Just a couple of things to look at and then its the paintshop for the van!

 

Andy G

Edited September 1, 2014 by uax6

[JCL]

Looks great Andy! I can't wait to see what it lookalike Ike all painted up. What size wire have you been using for the rain strip and handrails?

[uax6]

I only ever use one size, and thats 0.45mm brass wire. I buy it by the 100's from Eilleens.

 

I'm just hoping that I don't screw up the painting process!

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Are you up late or early?

[uax6]

I'm up stupidly early, had to do some cat butlering, and couldn't get back to sleep.....