Roco MultiMAUS

[Kiwi_Ed]

I am leaning towards the Multimaus as well, just by looking at it it looks so much easier and more relax to operate than the Power Cab.

 

Double-heading was one of my wishes, but being 'a modeller on a budget' price does matter. So instead of spending about 1.5 times as much I'll probably go for the Multimaus, that way loose the option of double-heading, but I do still have the option to buy a second handset fairly cheaply and have the possibility to operate the layout with somebody else.

 

[edit]While I was typing this, I did not read DeSa's reply. You say you can actually do double-heading with the Multimaus, can you explain how?[/edit]

 

There is one thing confusing me about the Powercab. In the description it says 'This 2 Amp system can operate 2 or 3 HO sized trains, or 4 N scale trains.' Does that mean that you can only have 4 (in my case) trains at the same time on the layout. Or can you have more trains ticking over in the sidings, and does this only refer to some recall option to quickly flick between the different locos actually driving on the layout'

[PaulCheffus]

Any DCC system can run two or more locos independently,

 

The basic multimaus does not support double-heading and you have to set each loco independently. PDF manual

 

The wirless multimaus does suppport double heading

PDF manual

 

Hi

 

Is this also the case when the Multimaus is used with the Lenz LVZ100 command station?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Nigelcliffe]

Hello Butler,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Does that mean you can not do double-heading at all with the basic multimaus?

 

I know that is what you just said, but can you not set two locomotives to drive simultaneously at the same speed or something..

 

One of the reasons for going DCC was to be able to do double-headed long trains, so by the sound of this seems like the Multimaus is off.

(but than again; do the Dynamis E-Z Command or the NCE powercab support double-heading?)

 

 

I think Butler's answer is incomplete....

 

 

 

The MultiMaus lacks a set of keys to do automatic creation/deletion of consists (consists being the term for multiple locos under a single control, such as double or triple heading). BUT, the MultiMaus will let you create them manually, its just not described explicitely in the manuals.

 

 

If a loco decoder supports "Advanced Consisting" (thats just about all decoders, other than a handful of cheapskate decoders from trainset brands), then you need to set CV19 in the decoder to enable and disable advanced consisting. This can be done on the running line from a MultiMaus using "Programming on the Main" ( POM in the Multimaus manual).

 

For each loco in the consist, you set CV19 to an address of your choice from 1 to 127 (or add 128 to the value chosen if you want the loco to run "backwards" in the consist). Then, you call up the consist address you created on the Multimaus and drive the consist (ie. all locos in the consist now drive on the consist address). I'd probably start by restricting my choice of consist addresses to values below 99, because of how Lenz/Roco systems handle "short" addresses between 100 and 127.

 

To break the consist, call up each loco individually on its real address, and set CV19 to 0. Each loco will now drive on its original address.

 

 

If you forget to reset the consist address in a loco, then it keeps it's setting even if removed from the track. So its worth keeping notes of what you are doing, otherwise locos can appear to not work (when in fact they are still in a consist you haven't reset!).

 

 

 

The Consisting Capability within the NCE PowerCab automates the above CV19 stuff for you. (NCE have quite a few features where they have automated settings which can be done manually on any makers system if you know how).

 

 

 

 

One or two other command stations, (eg. Digitrax) offer consisting managed within the Command Station. This is a different approach, rather than setting a CV within a decoder to the Consist address, the Command Station maintains a list of locos within the Consist and sends parallel instructions to all the addresses at the same time.

 

There are advantages and disadvantages of choosing "command station consisting" or "decoder supported advanced consisting", but both essentially achieve the same result.

 

 

 

 

The Bachman E-Z Command does not do consisting in any sensible manner (you can do it by setting the loco addresses to be the same). As you are discussing MultiMaus and PowerCab, forget the E-Z Command which is a toy trainset device with a handful of toy capabilities. The Bachmann Dynamis is a more capable controller and possibly worth consideration.

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Kiwi_Ed]

Thanks for that great explanation, Nigel. (now I only need to remember where it is, when I finally will have my layout together, a couple of locos chipped and ready to use the Multimaus).

 

Now I lean more and more towards the Multimaus (just about tipping over...).

 

Is there a book or a website about all this setting of CV values etc. - The hidden powers of DCC - ?

[PaulCheffus]

I think Butler's answer is incomplete....

 

 

 

The MultiMaus lacks a set of keys to do automatic creation/deletion of consists (consists being the term for multiple locos under a single control, such as double or triple heading). BUT, the MultiMaus will let you create them manually, its just not described explicitely in the manuals.

- Nigel

 

Hi

 

The Lenz system has a separate DH menu option and I am not sure how this works. Now its obvious that the Multimaus is not able to create this type of double header (it doesn't manipulate CV19 I assume it creates a link in the command station) but if I created the DH with the LH100 would the Multimaus control both locomotives from either address as the LH100 does or would only one loco receive commands?

 

I have just ordered a Multimaus to use as a second controller to my Lenz system but never thought to ask this question. If it doesn't then I will have to remember to create the double header in the manner described by Nigel above.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi

 

The Lenz system has a separate DH menu option and I am not sure how this works.

 

I think its a "command station" consist, where the command station remembers the locos in the consist and sends parallel instructions to both locos. Nothing to do with CV19 and "advanced consists".

I'm not a Lenz user, so you will have to experiment to be certain whether it works with a MultiMaus used as handset onto a Lenz Command Station.

 

 

- Nigel

[Tim Hale]

Rather than lots of techno froth, here is an idiot's guide to the MultiMaus:

 

If you want to set CV1=89 then hold the MENU button down for 5 secs (or press SHIFT and MENU together) Your display will now show one of the Menu headings and its menu number

Either press the direction keys to move to PROGR or press the function key 2 > Press OK

CV MO > Press OK

Enter 1 > Press OK

Enter 89 >Press OK

Press Menu

 

Then flick through your entered locos to NEW ?

Press Ok

enter your name/no

Press Ok

Enter 89

Press Ok

55 28 Change to 128 for your speed steps if desired

Press Ok

 

Run the loco

 

 

 

V AE indicates that its still set in German.

Err 2 indicates no confirmation was received from the decoder.

 

Hold the MENU button down for 5 secs (or press SHIFT and MENU together) Your display will now show one of the Menu headings and its menu number

Press the function key 3 > If the screen shows EINST and not SETTI then it is in German. If it shows SETTI I would return it to the supplier as it seems to got into a mess.

 

To get out of German Press OK to EINST, you should then get DISPL, right key gives you BEDIE. Press OK gives SPRACHE, press OK and use the arrow keys to get to ENGLI. Press OK then press MENU

 

Then try changing the CV

 

If you still get err 2, what decoder are you trying to programme? There is an issue with the high voltage output of the Roco power supply which prevents TCS decoders from programming. I put a string of 12 diodes in one direction and 12 in the other direction in one wire of the track feed. This dropped the voltage from 20.5v to 13.8v, measured from the blue and white outputs of a decoder

 

 

 

To Delete

 

 

 

1. Switch the power to the Multimaus off its already on then switch the power back on

2. Hold the shift key down and press MENU

3. You need to get the display showing LOCO - try the direction arrows if it does not, if that does not work press STOP as you must be in submenu, then if still not showing try the direction arrows again

4. OK

5. The display will now show NEW

6. Press the right direction arrow twice to get DELETE

7. OK

8. Press the direction arrows to get to the loco you want to delete.

 

I claim no credit for this excellent guide, it was given to me by Rich Bucknall of this parish

 

DesA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oakydoke]

The manufacturer of the Dynamis - ESU - sell their own version of Dynamis outside the UK but it uses radio to communicate however it is NOT approved by the GPO and cannot be sold (or used) in the UK.

Sorry, that's totally incorrect.

ESU's own version of the Dynamis (called the Navigator) does not use radio ! It uses Infra Red just like the Dynamis.

The Navigator is actually a Dynamis Pro (Dynamis + Pro Box) in one system unit, with the addition of Marklin/Motorola capability and a built-in computer interface.

 

You may have been confusing this system with ESU's ECoSControl Radio, which is a radio based wireless throttle for the ECoS system and uses the same body-shell as the Dynamis/Navigator handset. It is not a "version" of the Dynamis.

In addition, the ECoSControl Radio handset cannot be used as a stand alone system.

It is certified for use in the EU, so it's perfectly legal to use it in the UK.

 

As for the GPO...it may have escaped your notice, but the GPO was abolished 42 years ago (1969).

 

 

Please note that, the Multimaus II is also wireless and relies on radio to communicate and the spec is very good but it is stunningly expensive at over four times the price of the Multimaus I.

I've not come across these descriptions of the MultiMaus before.

They're generally known as the MultiMaus and MultiMausPro.

[Tim Hale]

Sorry, that's totally incorrect.

 

Thank you for correcting me, I stand corrected. As you correctly assumed, I confused myself over the ECoSControl Radio system.

 

As for the GPO, it is still the same organisation as far as I am concerned, despite modern terminology.

 

DesA

[melmerby]

Thank you for correcting me, I stand corrected. As you correctly assumed, I confused myself over the ECoSControl Radio system.

 

As for the GPO, it is still the same organisation as far as I am concerned, despite modern terminology.

 

DesA

 

I used to work for the GPO and by the time I left the part I was in was a privatised BT, there was little left of "The GPO" so it is not the same organisation.

I think you will find approval for wireless equipment these days is out of their hands (try Ofcom).

 

Keith

[Tim Hale]

I used to work for the GPO and by the time I left the part I was in was a privatised BT, there was little left of "The GPO" so it is not the same organisation.

I think you will find approval for wireless equipment these days is out of their hands (try Ofcom).

 

Keith

 

Keith,

 

I think that the operative words in my posting were 'as far as I am concerned' rather than any political correctness- for me the local telephone exchange is still located in the same complex as the local Post Office and the organisations will always be inextricably linked.

 

It's an age thing although I still feel cheated by the lack of a button B.

 

DesA

[Phil S]

I have about 10 Multimaus controllers / Maus2's bought via Starter Sets, complete with Transformer and Amplifier (...764 with Multimauses). We use them from HOe (as with the Roco HOe Starter sets) through to G-scale (not US made locos).

 

The concern about the high 'on track' voltage is a genuine one, but confused by many digital multimeters which doe NOT give accurate readings for the near square wave at almost 10kHz of the dcc waveform!

(A Fluke or Oscilloscope will give a correct result, as will a Rampmeter © but my ' Maplin' digital meters don't ! A close result CAN be obtained with 4 x 1n4148 diodes wired as a bridge rectifier, followed by some smoothing, and the meter then on its dc range)

 

The 'problem' is the unregulated output of the supplied 230:16Vac transformer which can give as much as 20-21V on track with NO LOAD (or just a coach lit by (bright!) bulbs). {NOTE: My local mains can rise to 250V at times - hence also higher than expected voltages }

 

I have seen people using the inefficient method of diode-drops on the output (either of the transformer or Amplifier) to reduce this voltage: but there is a much better way!

 

Use a Switched-Mode Power Supply of 4A output - readily available for laptop computers etc.

The dcc-track voltage will be about 2 volts lower than the SMPS supply used.

 

It is perfectly safe, in my experience, to use a DC supply into the Amplifier, as internally it uses a Bridge rectifier with 6A-rated diodes - so even full load 3.2A is within spec. In fact; the NEW RocomausPRO is supplied WITHOUT a transformer, and recommends a Fleischman SMPS as one option.

EC regulations, as the Marklin website remonds readers, require trainsets to be supplied with SMPS instead of inefficient transformers - but existing stocks of transformers may be used up first, and aso supplied for spares/'repairs'.

 

Personally I bought Adjustable Voltage SMPS's because I also use them for G-Scale - which is 22-24V dcc normally - but we find that 16V is ample for LGB locos on a level layout indoors ( 5 locos with sound, with only 1 or 2 moving). For OO/HO use I have mine set to 18V giving me 16Vdcc (as verified by Rampmeters and oscilloscopes. I would recommend people to buy 16V o/p giving about 14V on track and therefore 12V to the motors and internal lighting etc.

 

What do I do with all those other Amplifiers? as you can't use 2 together?????

The AMPLIFIER and the BOOSTER are IDENTICAL INSIDE: the only difference being the loop-through connecting bus giving an extra socket, and the omission of the Master/Slave sockets. You could use an external parallel splitter for the 4-pole RG plugs, if you do not wish to open your amplifiers (at your own risk etc) Of course, ONLY THE MASTER unit (Amplifier used as Amplifier) should have anything inserted into the controller Expressnet sockets (Master OR Slave). In this way, I have 4 power districts for my main layout (with 3.2A limit each) and the other Amplifiers are installed in each of our portable layouts and as backup spares for a G-Scale modular layout (which usually uses a Massoth Dimax Controller)

 

The Multimaus and Amplifier combination does not provide read-back when programming- this has both advantages AND disadvantages. When used with the Rocomotion, then there is a dedicated PGM output, WITH readback. With the newer MULTIMAUSPRO - these units are 'combined' and so READBACK is provided when programming - and also RAILCOM is supported (so is multiple heading and Routes - Routes was previously provided by the separate Route controller)

 

I strongly advocate people buying the Multimaus -especially, if a continental modeller via a start set - as it is much cheaper than as the separate parts!! - hence the Ebay offers broken from sets. BUT DO be energy efficient, and use a SMPS instead of the transformer.

[Phil S]

Multimaus / Multimaus Pro - Library - Errata

Whilst on the subject of getting the most out of the Multimaus / Pro

 

The MANUAL describes the library as being used with CV 1 addresses (ie 1-99 with Expressnet) IMPLICATION :- ONLY

 

However, the Library DOES work with LONG addresses too ! - making it much more useful 8-)

'Lots of fun' can be had devising the best Acronyms in 5 characters to identify your stock !

64 per controller - I use different lists in differing handsets

Eg for the G-Scale Layout; the handset has the G-Scale locos listed

For the Continental layout this now has 2 controllers with differing lists

Steam Locos by number, and steam locos by name etc.

 

They can be copied from 1 controller to another.

 

The ROCOMOTION protocol for the older SERIAL unit has been published by Roco, but not, as yet, the new RocomotionPro - which uses USB in HID mode.

[dave_long]

The ROCOMOTION protocol for the older SERIAL unit has been published by Roco, but not, as yet, the new RocomotionPro - which uses USB in HID mode.

 

What does this little bit mean about rocomotion, I've been looking to get this for some time, but its quite hard to get and expensive.

 

 

My original transformer just died one day, I've been using the plug in power unit from a Dynamis ever since and had no problems, I've not had a chance test (electrically that is) but I dont build huge layouts with lots of locos etc well not yet anyway.

 

Dave

 

 

[Phil S]

Phil: 'Rocomotion 5.9' is actually the custom cut-down version of the RR+co VDU/Control software supplied with the Roco [Computer] [/motion] interface, and freely downloadable from the Roco.cc site. It ONLY RUNS TRAINS** when connected to either of the Roco Computer interfaces: the original 'Rocomotion' package (black box like the Amplifier but with PGM output, and serial interface) OR the new MultimausPro Central unit - details are on the roco website. Downloadable manuals etc in english. ALSO a 'demo' version of the Multimaus can be downloaded. Different language-sets are available - depending usually on country of purchase. (Uk versions also include German) (**Layouts may be designed on screen, without the interface connected)

 

WITHOUT additional items; it provides a VDU screen on which the track can be drawn, and points and signals operated. 'Any number' of ON-Screen throttles## may also be created. Easy to Use.

(##personally I do not like the sideways <> throttle controls with no definitive 'centre-off' position)

 

IF Roco FEEDBACK modules (and appropriate track sensors of your choice) are added, then the software can also TRACK TRAINS and provide Automatic or assisted running of trains.

The 'Full Version' of the software (also downloadable for 15 minutes limited running-per-day) is more complex and has many more options - including the freedom to choose your own feedback units etc.

However; upgrades will cost you more money.

 

The original Rocomotion I/F is no longer available. (and I've misplaced mine 8-( ) The new version uses USB and despite the catalogue illustrations is ALSO in the usual Black Box! - but with more connectors!

It is sold WITH a Wireless (2-way communications) Blue Multimaus Pro Handset - in either Roco or Fleischmann boxes and labelling - the Fleischmann version may be more readily available in the UK?

Expect to have to order it in. Additional handsets are available separately for `approx 170GBP/Euro.

Prices in the uk may vary between stockists!

[Phil S]

Re-the failed Roco Transformer: Either recycle the copper - its now very expensive - OR take it apart and use it as a useful source of copper enamelled wire to help make streetlights etc for the layout.

Two strands of the finer winding will fit inside the brass tube supplied with the Conrad Kit lamp-less Streetlamps; soldered to warm white or yellow LEDs, with series resistor and protective diode, for economical layout lighting.

[Butler Henderson]

The failed transformer, if its anything like mine, will be a blown resistor - take it apart and check the components.

[PaulCheffus]

I think its a "command station" consist, where the command station remembers the locos in the consist and sends parallel instructions to both locos. Nothing to do with CV19 and "advanced consists".

I'm not a Lenz user, so you will have to experiment to be certain whether it works with a MultiMaus used as handset onto a Lenz Command Station.

 

 

- Nigel

 

Hi

 

I can now confirm that the Lenz dh option does work with a multimaus if it has already been setup with the lh100 which I believe is the same as the lh90. ( I.e. The lh90 can't create the double header but can control it once setup).

 

Very happy with the multimaus so far.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[Butler Henderson]

German model shop Modellbahn Kramm have the set (hand unit + transformer + amplifer) on offer for 79.99 euros + (I think) 10 euros postage for a limited period

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/e/spezial.cfm?fid=711&artnr=10810.36

[Oakydoke]

German model shop Modellbahn Kramm have the set (hand unit + transformer + amplifer) on offer for 79.99 euros + (I think) 10 euros postage for a limited period

http://www.modellbah...&artnr=10810.36

Hi there,

They've had that offer on for several months now, certainly since early March IIRC ?

It looks like fantastic value, if you ask me.

[The Nth Degree]

German model shop Modellbahn Kramm have the set (hand unit + transformer + amplifer) on offer for 79.99 euros + (I think) 10 euros postage for a limited period

http://www.modellbahn-kramm.com/e/spezial.cfm?fid=711&artnr=10810.36

I got mine from this supplier a few weeks ago. I had an email today saying they are offering half price shipping to any euro destination until Tuesday. I think it's a holiday over there. There are also some special deals on a few items on the same holiday promotion. Their delivery service is superb, as is their customer service overall.

Steve