Goods depot between East ham and Upton park, east London

[Ive595]

Good afternoon all, I have some questions regarding a goods depot I remember from my youth.

I remember walking with my Nan from East ham to Upton park market, through the back streets which as I know now crossed plashet lane. I remember always wanting to go and stand on a footbridge which was not part of our route but a slight detour to please a young grandson. It overlooked ( from a distance ) a goods yard , where something was always going on. This is where memory gets mixed up, I want to say I saw coal being offloaded for coal merchants , but wonder whether other goods were also dealt with here. 

I am also hazy as to the motive power used, again romance wants me to say it was small tank engines however date wise I would guess it was small diesels.

 Ok dates would be late 60s, I would have been between 5 and 7 ish, ( 51 now ).

Any comments memories or photos would be great.

 

Many thanks Ivan

[CloggyDog]

The online rail map has a 'goods and coal yard' between Upton Park and East Ham stations:

 

http://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=51.53539&lng=0.04103

 

Interestingly, it's not on the 1895 25inch map of the area http://maps.nls.uk/view/101201742 but is on the 1920 six-inch http://maps.nls.uk/view/102345870 and 1946 one-inch maps: http://maps.nls.uk/view/74466960

 

Somwhere at home I have the last (1970s) one-inch. If I can dig it out, I'll check if the yard is still on there.

Edited June 30, 2014 by CloggyDeux

[Ive595]

Thats it! Thank you, so im guessing road access would have been from Plashet lane.

No headshunt I see, in truth I cannot remember the distance from the mainline but it was not far, what would be the correct working practice in this situation, one wagon at a time then dispose of it in the siding on the left by the 'lake'/ 'pit' whatever?

Memories are wicked things, giving you just enough info to get you going but not enough detail!

 

Cheers Ivan

[CloggyDog]

The one-wagon at a time method would either mean a lot of to-ing and fro-ing from the nearest loop or main yard (Barking?) with all the disruption to services that might mean or (worse!) leaving the rest of the train fouling the main.

 

So, I would guess that the headshunt paralleled the main back towards Upton Park station, allowing shunting of full trains, possibly with some form of loop provision?

 

EDIT: thought I'd see if Harsig's District Line signalling diagrams cover the main and they do:

http://www.harsig.org/PDF/District_East_1936.pdf (pages 6 and 7) show the connection off the main as at 1936. No headshunt. So I'd therefore assume trains would enter and shunt in from the Up main (with the loco at the London end) and split the train for shunting within the yard.

 

 

The six-inch map series weren't intended to show the fine detail of railway track, only a representation. A better bet would be the larger (1:1250) scale maps (25 inch to the mile) - local libraries may hold copies of old versions - these are much more accurate with regard to track layouts and features.

 

Btw... the yard is also on the 1957 1:25000 (2.5 inch to the mile), http://maps.nls.uk/view/95750258 so it lasted into BR days, certainly!

 

 

Also found out that, barring some building work on the west side of the yard, the rest is now a park/play area.

Edited June 30, 2014 by CloggyDeux

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ivan and Alan

 

It is Upton Park Depot or Upton Park Goods Station (both names are in the same book). It was an LNWR yard, despite it being off the LTSR line. It opened in April 1895 and closed in July 1984. It had sidings for East Ham Corporation and NL Electricty Works. It had a capacity of 128 wagons. Info from The Midland Railway -A Chronology by John Gough. Jowlett's Railway Atlas gives it as being a LNWR yard and calls it Upton Park Depot.

[Ive595]

Sorry I meant, deal with one wagon then back the train up, uncoupling that wagon and loading /unloading the next. But as you say a headshunt parallel with the mainline would make more sense.

Your latest map shows a building on the lake and left hand spur, and entrance round the back of the school rather than from plaster lane.

 

Ivan

[Ive595]

Clive, thanks for that, 1984? A lot later than I would have expected, although I stopped going that way in early 70s. Probably a derelict site for many years.

I better get to East ham library ( if it still exists ).

 

Thanks Ivan

[BernardTPM]

I remember this yard quite well and, until early last year, would often walk by the site. I'm not 100% sure but I think it kept one of the old ER blue and white enamelled signs to the end, though with later Corporate BR style ones too. When I first moved to the area (1959) the line was still steam operated and though I remember little of the pre-electric passenger trains I do have distant memories of largish tank locos using the connection to this yard (there's a handy footbridge round the back of Upton Park station). The road entrance was in Grangewood Street.

[Ive595]

Going to have a trip down there this week, although I remember a footbridge , I know it did not cross the mainline, only the siding entrance, I remember lokking one way to see passing trains, left / right and vice versa or looking the other way into the goods yard, only the spur ran below the footbridge, I think.

 

Ivan

[BernardTPM]

There's an interesting set of shots of a derailment of a coal train in 1978, starting here. The footbridge over the Tilbury and District lines I was referring to is visible in the last three shots from here.

 

Ah, this is what I was really looking for - a picture showing the short headshunt adjacent to the main line.

Edited July 1, 2014 by BernardTPM

[Gwiwer]

A little late to the party but as this was one of my old stamping grounds having lived for eight years one street off Plashet Grove - it's not Plashet Lane - I am more than familiar with the footbridge in question and the site of the coal yard.

 

Domestic coal was still delivered to numerous rail-served depots around London until relatively late possibly because it reduced road trips through the capital and meant only the local merchants on nearby rounds needed to be involved.  Coal fires are still in use in some homes in the area today.  I was burning smokeless-zone compliant coal (well that's what the bags said) until I left the area in 1992.

 

I suspect trains might have at one time arrived via the former Woodgrange Park - East Ham curve crossing the LT tracks on the level though they might equally have been routed via Gas Factory Junction at Bow.  The former bay platform for passenger trains (long since out of use) is perfectly visible at the eastern end of the east bound District Line platform at East Ham and the track bed of the curve is mirrored in the curve of Shakespeare Crescent, Manor Park.

 

The site of Upton Park Yard is now occupied by recent homes in William Morley Close though again the former existence of the railway can be discerned in the alignment of Grangewood Street.  Upton Park bus garage at the southern end of William Morley Close where it joins end-on to the much older Priory Road (which formed the southern boundary of the yard I believe) is now closed and I believe is to become the site of more new homes.  Keen-eyed fans of Doctor Who might recognise William Morley Close as the setting for a few of the east London-based episodes of a few series' ago.

[Ive595]

Great pictures Bernard and there is the headshunt, makes sense now as the distance inside the yard entrance and the small headshunt would be enough, of course it would that's why they did it! Doh!

Now Gwiwer, I too was confused about Plashet lane, as I knew it was not called that but I could not remember what it was called, looked today on 'maps' it's Katherines road, then I remembered my grandad went to a bookies in Katherine s road. Plashet grove I think is north of the railway.

I remember my nan having a coal fire in the mid 80s, and still got it delivered.

[Colin]

There's an interesting set of shots of a derailment of a coal train in 1978, starting here. The footbridge over the Tilbury and District lines I was referring to is visible in the last three shots from here.

 

Ah, this is what I was really looking for - a picture showing the short headshunt adjacent to the main line.

I like the caption for the derailment pics "Calamity at Upton Park". It reminds me, as a West Ham fan, of many match reports over the years!

I think the headshunt buffer stop may still be in situ - if not, it was possibly only removed in recent times. The last loco I saw in the yard was a class 37 shortly before closure in '84.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Colin

[trisonic]

Apologies for digressing but - Does anyone know a source of photographs for when “The (wagon) Works” at Gidea Park burnt down?

I cannot even remember the year though I I know it held me up on my way to see Mum and Dad (now long gone otherwise I would have asked them) in Shenfield.............

 

Best, Pete.

[PhilJ W]

Apologies for digressing but - Does anyone know a source of photographs for when “The (wagon) Works” at Gidea Park burnt down?

I cannot even remember the year though I I know it held me up on my way to see Mum and Dad (now long gone otherwise I would have asked them) in Shenfield.............

 

Best, Pete.

There was two fires at the 'factory'. The first was about 1967/8 when the old tarpaulin factory burnt down. It was quite spectacular as the flames could be seen from South Street in Romford. I was working in an office next door to the old police station at the time and we all stopped work to watch. The second was in 2002 when the main factory building, which has grade II listing caught fire whilst being converted to flats.

[BernardTPM]

Plashet Grove runs from Green Street (Duke of Edinburgh) to High Street North (Burnell Arms), crossing Katherine Road at the Green Man. Katherine Road (going South) then crosses over the railway, but not the yard or its entrance, though it's not far from it at that point. - note only the 'Duke' pub is still standing (or was in early 2013).

[Del]

note only the 'Duke' pub is still standing (or was in early 2013).

Still standing, but closed down about a month ago

[Gwiwer]

The Burnell burnt down (some allegations were made about it being an "insurance job") in 2012.  Having seen the remains it appeared to have been a pretty intense fire which completely destroyed the building.  The multi-cultural and alcohol-avoiding nature of the local population, which at one time was firmly "white working class" and supported many similar large pubs, has meant their patronage has dwindled to almost nothing now.

[Ive595]

The Burnell ( Arms I think? ) where my Grandad spent he's winnings.

It was years before I realised what ' going to see a man about a dog' meant.

[BernardTPM]

Still standing, but closed down about a month ago

Mind you, the 'Duke' was a strange pub with all the charisma of a housing advice centre. That just leaves 'The Queens' and, right down on the corner with Barking Road, the superb Edwardian 'gin palace' 'The Boleyn'. I would imagine the football crowds will keep those two going, at least until West Ham move to the Olympic stadium. 'The White Hart' building survived (survives?), but was a restaurant (and had been for some time) when I left.

Edited July 1, 2014 by BernardTPM

[Del]

Indeed, I only ever went to The Duke to watch football on the telly, or a quick one after a match when it was always heaving. I imagine it was always dead at any other time.

[Gwiwer]

Even the iconic "Boleyn" outside West Ham football ground is a quiet place on non-match days now.  I do wonder whether it has any future once the club moves.  The "Burnt Hell" was as the dodo 25 years ago - on a Friday night the customer (singualr) could have the barman's undivided attention! 

[philwaglab]

Hi,I visited Upton Park Goods yard in 1973 and there were two signs at the entrance,one modern sign the other as mentioned was blue & white.In 1973 the main traffic was scrap tinplate off cuts.This was received from Metal Box Factories and reloaded into 16 Ton minerals for Llanelli & Hartlepool.There was also a few wagons of coal received every week for Hulbert Bros,Turp and Peter Burns.I have an interesting memo dated in the 60's requesting 2 brakevans for the Upton Park trip making it easier to run round at Gas Factory Junction.July 1984 seems to be a relalistic date for closure, this in line with the miners strike and the withdrawal of wagon load coal traffic in conventional wagons.

[Fat Controller]

Hi,I visited Upton Park Goods yard in 1973 and there were two signs at the entrance,one modern sign the other as mentioned was blue & white.In 1973 the main traffic was scrap tinplate off cuts.This was received from Metal Box Factories and reloaded into 16 Ton minerals for Llanelli & Hartlepool.There was also a few wagons of coal received every week for Hulbert Bros,Turp and Peter Burns.I have an interesting memo dated in the 60's requesting 2 brakevans for the Upton Park trip making it easier to run round at Gas Factory Junction.July 1984 seems to be a relalistic date for closure, this in line with the miners strike and the withdrawal of wagon load coal traffic in conventional wagons.

The tinplate offcuts went to one of Batchelor-Robinson's two de-tinning plants; here the tin was removed, and sent back to British Steel in South Wales for re-use, whilst the steel was baled and sent to local steelworks and foundries. The plant at Llanelli used to supply the British Steel foundry at Landore. Any idea where the inbound tinplate (probably conveyed in Shockvans) was handled?

[philwaglab]

The tinplate was stocked near the fenceline of Grangewood Street in huge piles.In the early 1970's 16 ton mineral wagons conveyed the scrap from Wisbech East,Ebbw Vale,llanelli Trostre Works & Aintree to Upton Park for de-tinning.The stockpile of scrap observed in 1973 had not been detinned and was loaded up in 16 ton minerals for Llanelli & Hartlepool for Batchelor Robinson  so I assume that either the plant at Upton Park had closed or there was over capacity held on site ??