Yellow warning Panels

[Alan Higgi]

I would be grateful for some background info on Diesels circa1962. My question relates to Yellow warning Panels as I have a Peak, a Warship and a Hymek with the high viz fronts.

 

Should I paint them out?

[Pete 75C]

Off the top of my head, 1962 would seem a bit early for half/part yellow ends. If there is a definitive answer, someone here will surely know.

[Pete 75C]

I just discovered the following text at:

 

http://www.bloodandcustard.com/bloodandcustardhistory.html

 

"The first yellow warning panels on the front of diesel and electric stock appeared in the early 1960s; an early example being Southern Region no.E6001 (Type JA) in 1962 - before it was repainted with a plain green front! However, it was not long before other new locomotives (such as the BRCW class 27) were being delivered with yellow warning panels."

 

Maybe you could get away with it that early...

['CHARD]

It's your train set, as the saying goes.  However, if you are worried, Google image search the loco numbers for an idea of when they first wore small yellow panels.  Bear in mind there were only a few dozen Hymeks in service in 1962 anyway.

[chaz]

On the ECML the first class 47's appeared in 1962 and had the small yellow panels which looked neat as they were the same height as the light green band along the sides. These were the first diesel class to appear that had never run without the yellow. Certainly during 1963 many (most?) of the diesels that had had plain green ends acquired the yellow panels.

[Fat Controller]

Looking at 'Heyday of the Hymecs', D7013 is illustrated without a yellow panel in July 1961; D7009 is still in this condition in August 1962, and D7013 in May 1963.

However, by 1962, most shots show small yellow panels, with D7044 and D7045 being shown upon delivery at Swindon in August 1962 with works-applied panels.

[John Tomlinson]

I would agree with many of the above, the small yellow panels started to appear in 1962, and this is borne out by photographic evidence. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that some of the painting was done at depot level, as the rate of application seems far in excess of the rota normal works visits.

 

Its worth mentioning that a few locos seem to have given the process the slip for several years, and also that the Southern Region seemed very slow to implement, with some 33's still in plain green in 1965. Maybe they thought that their staff were so used to unmarked emu's that the yellow panels were a bit unnecessary!

 

John.

[stovepipe]

Generally new locos got yellow panels from Spring 1962 - there was a recent thread:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90620-1960-1970-diesel-locomotives/

 

The first 19 or 20 Hymeks were delivered without them, the rest had them from new.

 

There were some classes, e.g. Class 33 and 71 on the SR that still didn't have them into 1965.

[Fat Controller]

Generally new locos got yellow panels from Spring 1962 - there was a recent thread:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/90620-1960-1970-diesel-locomotives/

 

The first 19 or 20 Hymeks were delivered without them, the rest had them from new.

 

There were some classes, e.g. Class 33 and 71 on the SR that still didn't have them into 1965.

Wasn't there one 33 that lasted until the end of the 1960s without a yellow panel?

[Alan Higgi]

Oh Doh I should have searched!

I think I like them better with the panel so I'll do as advised and select numbers to suit. Thanks Guys.

 

 

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 18:57

On the WR the Yellow panel first appeared on 16/01/62 when D834 left Swindon after repairs, it was followed by D822 on the 26th. D859 was the first 800 to enter traffic with the Yellow panel from new on 09/01/62.

 

D7019 was the first new Hymek to have a Yellow panel, from 14/02/62. D7018 was delivered new without a Yellow panel on 17/01/62 but after a few days in traffic went into Swindon for minor attention, coming out on 31/01/62 with the Yellow panel.

 

With the 22's D6337 was new with Yellow from 13/03/62 with 6325 getting its Yellow end from 10/01/62 followed by 6305 on 12/01/62.

 

With the 1000's D1002 was new in Green with Yellow, and the first from new in Maroon was D1011. Quite why 1001/1005-10 came out with Yellow buffer beams whilst the Yellow panel was being applied to other classes is not known other than the painting drawing date was probably slow in filtering down to the shop floor.

 

Edited October 16, 2014 by Alan Higgi

[brianusa]

A pity they ever thought of yellow panels at all; spoiled a lot of colour schemes.  Red buffer beam's worked fine for years!

 

Brian.

[SRman]

Wasn't there one 33 that lasted until the end of the 1960s without a yellow panel?

 

There were still quite a few 33s without yellow panels of any sort in 1967. It was possible to see 33s in green with no yellow, green with small yellow panels and blue with full yellow ends side by side in June/July 1967, also side by side with the last of the steam locomotives on the Bournemouth line.

[wirey33]

There were still quite a few 33s without yellow panels of any sort in 1967. It was possible to see 33s in green with no yellow, green with small yellow panels and blue with full yellow ends side by side in June/July 1967, also side by side with the last of the steam locomotives on the Bournemouth line.

And they said the GWR boys were adverse to following the rules !!

[Wheatley]

 

A pity they ever thought of yellow panels at all; spoiled a lot of colour schemes. Red buffer beam's worked fine for years!

 

A lot of dead P.Way men would suggest otherwise, steam locos ran over plenty of them. Not only were diesels even harder to see and hear coming because they simply had less visual and audible presence than a steam loco, the whole railway was getting faster. Faster passenger trains, more 40/50/60mph fitted freight, less 25mph unfitted freight. These days it's been a bad year if trackworker fatalities are in single figures - the last time I looked this up (and of course I can't find the link now), the annual death toll in the 1950s and 60s was frequently over a hundred.  Something had to be done.

[brianusa]

A lot of dead P.Way men would suggest otherwise, steam locos ran over plenty of them. Not only were diesels even harder to see and hear coming because they simply had less visual and audible presence than a steam loco, the whole railway was getting faster. Faster passenger trains, more 40/50/60mph fitted freight, less 25mph unfitted freight. These days it's been a bad year if trackworker fatalities are in single figures - the last time I looked this up (and of course I can't find the link now), the annual death toll in the 1950s and 60s was frequently over a hundred.  Something had to be done.

WADR, the reduction in fatalities is possibly due more to the much maligned H & S rather than the colour on the front of an engine. Instead of blowing a horn as of old, there is probably better communication; radios, mobiles and contact with signallers, etc, that have contributed to this decrease in accidents. Perhaps someone in the know may sort this one out?

 

Brian

[stovepipe]

They might have painted yellow on locos to make them visible to track staff, but they didn't make the staff visible to the loco driver until sometime later. I may be wrong but it seems hi-viz wasn't worn much until the H&S at Work Act came into force in 1974.

[Clive Mortimore]

WADR, the reduction in fatalities is possibly due more to the much maligned H & S rather than the colour on the front of an engine. Instead of blowing a horn as of old, there is probably better communication; radios, mobiles and contact with signallers, etc, that have contributed to this decrease in accidents. Perhaps someone in the know may sort this one out?

 

Brian

Hi Brian

 

Part of the process in improving the H&S of railwaymen was trying to make locomotives and multiple units more visible.

They might have painted yellow on locos to make them visible to track staff, but they didn't make the staff visible to the loco driver until sometime later. I may be wrong but it seems hi-viz wasn't worn much until the H&S at Work Act came into force in 1974.

Hi Stove

 

Hi-visibility vest were trialed about 1965-6 on the ScR if my memory is working. They were in general use by track workers by the early 70s, slowly more railway workers started to wear them.

[Wheatley]

WADR, the reduction in fatalities is possibly due more to the much maligned H & S rather than the colour on the front of an engine.

 

 

I don't believe I suggested anywhere that the reduction was solely down to yellow paint ? I suggested it was the start of doing something about an identified problem. I believe the full story is in "British Rail - A Journey By Design" by Brian Haresnape if you care to go find a copy.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

Hi-visibility vest were trialed about 1965-6 on the ScR if my memory is working. They were in general use by track workers by the early 70s, slowly more railway workers started to wear them.

We had some donkey jackets with reflective shoulder pieces at New St in 1966. They were (for the first day of wearing) white!

[PenrithBeacon]

I bought this book yesterday http://booklaw.co.uk/eshop/product_info.php?cPath=323&products_id=6364 . It has a number of photos of diesels in early 1962 with the yellow warning panel.

 

Regards

[The Stationmaster]

The reduction in perway (and other online depts' injuries and fatalities) was due to all sorts of thing but helping make both approaching trains and on-track folk more visible no doubt helped.  Increased attention to safety and safety training played a big part, the sheer reduction in overall numbers was in part down to ever fewer people being exposed to danger on-track, and in more recent years it has all been about a proper safety culture and training with some of it down to safer working methods including ways (such as fences) of protecting the workforce from their own stupidity

[phil-b259]

I don't believe I suggested anywhere that the reduction was solely down to yellow paint ? I suggested it was the start of doing something about an identified problem. I believe the full story is in "British Rail - A Journey By Design" by Brian Haresnape if you care to go find a copy.

 

Indeed, however as the saying goes "every little helps" - and unlike the grocery chain that used it, when it comes to track workers that "little" can easily be the difference between a near miss / near hit (as some parts of the industry define it), and as the heath professionals call it "life changing injuries" / death (the affects of the latter spreading we beyond the individual of course i.e. - the serious mental trauma done to fellow workers, the driver, the people picking up the bits, your family, your children and friends........).

 

Even if having yellow ends only stops just one incident every decade, they are still worth having.

[rodent279]

On a related note, doors anyone know if any maroon locos, i.e. Westerns or Warships, ever carried arrows? I know some gem locos did.

Cheers N

Edited November 23, 2016 by rodent279

[The Johnster]

They might have painted yellow on locos to make them visible to track staff, but they didn't make the staff visible to the loco driver until sometime later. I may be wrong but it seems hi-viz wasn't worn much until the H&S at Work Act came into force in 1974.

 

 You could well be right about enforcement after the H & S at Work Act 1974, but I was issued with a hi-vis vest when I started as a guard at Canton in '70, and per. way staff were all wearing them by then.  

[Bustler]

some 9 years later but I'm trying to identify the last class 47's with pre tops numbers to run in two tone green with small yellow panels. Does anyone have any details etc.