A modern semaphore signal

[Captain Kernow]

This is a traditional W.R. pattern bracket semaphore signal. This particular example is at Par, a rather nice example, I think:

 

 

 

...and this is what a new semaphore signal looks like in the 21st century - this is the Up Platform to Down Main starting signal at Truro, installed in connection with the Penryn loop scheme last year:

 

 

Can't really get one of these from Ratio or MSE yet, but it would be interesting to see one modelled!

[Leicester Thumper]

I'd go for a model of that as well

 

so i wonder what Network rail are playing at? i thought Semaphores had bit the dust on the 'Mainline' and had become the 'Preserve' of the preserved lines (pun semi intended, sorry )

[Coombe Barton]

Is this a replacement for something that fell down or a signal in a new position? Or is it existing mech on a new base that complies with H&S regs?

[Southernman46]

Sign of the times that previously a man was expected to climb a ladder with no loops carrying parafin can etc..... to attend the signal - now there is enough steelwork around the signal arm to support the Tay Bridge and almost obscure the arm - and I would imagine that it is electrically lit now too !

[Edinburgh Junction]

I've noticed a few along the North Wales coast. They are really good. Shame there are more fences than usual.... Damn H&Saftey! AGH! lol

[LNERGE]

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p42793871.html

 

shows one of my own erections.. Pretty gruesome i'm afraid.

 

and another..

 

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p20266244.html

[Pugsley]

Very nice, and clears the right way as well, not like those imposters at Pen Mill

[Leicester Thumper]

http://richard2890.f.../p42793871.html

 

shows one of my own erections.. Pretty gruesome i'm afraid.

 

and another..

 

http://richard2890.f.../p20266244.html

 

first one looks odd, but second looks better, i think the taller and larger the signals are the better, it doesn't look too bad, but the first one looks really crammed together.

[Captain Kernow]

Is this a replacement for something that fell down or a signal in a new position? Or is it existing mech on a new base that complies with H&S regs?

It's a brand new signal in a new position, installed in connection with the enhanced service on the Truro to Falmouth branch line.

[Coombe Barton]

It's a brand new signal in a new position, installed in connection with the enhanced service on the Truro to Falmouth branch line.

 

So is there a training issue? Would installling colour lights require crew refamiliarisation?

 

Or is it that the expense of different control mechanisms would be prohibitive?

[lankyphil]

I'd go for a model of that as well

 

so i wonder what Network rail are playing at? i thought Semaphores had bit the dust on the 'Mainline' and had become the 'Preserve' of the preserved lines (pun semi intended, sorry )

 

Cost.

 

It's cheaper to replace "old" semaphores with "newer" semaphores than colour light signalling basically.

[The Stationmaster]

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p42793871.html

 

shows one of my own erections.. Pretty gruesome i'm afraid.

 

and another..

 

http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p20266244.html

 

You really should be ashamed of yourself for erecting something like that, they both look awful and the first one looks like it belongs in Ruthenia or on a trainset .

 

What worries me about these cock-eyed developments in semaphore signal appearance and 'equipment' is the apparent lack of consideration given to their most critical aspect (sorry ) which is sighting compared with the sudden and amazing overemphasis on the 'safety' of rare visits by techs (the Lampie's safety being readily covered by use of electric lamps).

 

I seriously wonder if a proper risk assessment was undrertaken before the appearance of all this added steelwork which not only increases cost but provides plenty of opportunities for a signal to become obscured or less clearly visible to a Driver. I have only ever heard of one instance of a Lampie falling off a signal (and he wasn't hurt) and none of a Lineman/S&T Tech falling off one - but there have been plenty of occasions when signal have not been properly visible to Drivers.

 

Mind you having heard recently of a case where a fail-safe emergency replacement signalling circuit has reportedly been changed to 'fail-unsafe' I am rapidly ceasing to be surprised by anything in the railway operational safety field

 

We seem to have gone H&S barmy - with the wrong safety objectives in mind.

 

Yours faithfully a person regularly undertaking operational safety assessments and preparing risk assessments plus past experience in doing independent safety assessments, SPAD risk assessment, and a trained operational safety auditor. (and who in a past life has had to go up on gantry mouted signals to deal with lamps which were out).

[Michael Delamar]

That finial at the top looks a bit sharp! surprised thats allowed! or that it hasnt got a cork stuck on it!

 

someone could hurt themselves!

 

Ive seen higher monkeybars in a kids playground!

 

and actually, that signal should have some of that soft tar found in playgrounds around it in case anyone falls off it!

 

 

Mike

[beast66606]

Cost.

 

It's cheaper to replace "old" semaphores with "newer" semaphores than colour light signalling basically.

 

Replacing a semaphore with a colour light requires alteration to locking, provision of track circuits (if its a stop signal), and all sorts of other things that a "like for like" replacement avoids and if there is no traffic requirement for the benefits a colour light can bring then one of these monstrosities is provided.

[beast66606]

That finial at the top looks a bit sharp! surprised thats allowed! or that it hasnt got a cork stuck on it!

 

someone could hurt themselves!

 

Ive seen higher monkeybars in a kids playground!

 

and actually, that signal should have some of that soft tar found in playgrounds around it in case anyone falls off it!

 

 

Mike

 

There is a colour light at Nuneaton that has a similar safety cage, and its only about 6 inches off the ground

 

These photos were taken under all the relevant safety precautions - and not by me I hasten to add.

 

Note the ladder

[LNERGE]

You really should be ashamed of yourself for erecting something like that, they both look awful and the first one looks like it belongs in Ruthenia or on a trainset .

 

What worries me about these cock-eyed developments in semaphore signal appearance and 'equipment' is the apparent lack of consideration given to their most critical aspect (sorry ) which is sighting compared with the sudden and amazing overemphasis on the 'safety' of rare visits by techs (the Lampie's safety being readily covered by use of electric lamps).

 

I seriously wonder if a proper risk assessment was undrertaken before the appearance of all this added steelwork which not only increases cost but provides plenty of opportunities for a signal to become obscured or less clearly visible to a Driver. I have only ever heard of one instance of a Lampie falling off a signal (and he wasn't hurt) and none of a Lineman/S&T Tech falling off one - but there have been plenty of occasions when signal have not been properly visible to Drivers.

 

Mind you having heard recently of a case where a fail-safe emergency replacement signalling circuit has reportedly been changed to 'fail-unsafe' I am rapidly ceasing to be surprised by anything in the railway operational safety field

 

We seem to have gone H&S barmy - with the wrong safety objectives in mind.

 

Yours faithfully a person regularly undertaking operational safety assessments and preparing risk assessments plus past experience in doing independent safety assessments, SPAD risk assessment, and a trained operational safety auditor. (and who in a past life has had to go up on gantry mouted signals to deal with lamps which were out).

 

 

Unfortunately although i did have a hand in the design, telling them what they couldn't do etc, there was nothing could have done about it. I do agree though it is a monstrosity. Thankfully i get to erect signals on heritage lines too..

[DavidBelcher]

Here's a similar replacement at Harrogate - not quite as much cagework but still hideous!

 

 

 

 

I was going to mention that one, being one of the few modern semaphores I was aware of. I think there may be some similar like-for-like replacements on the northern approaches to Shrewsbury. Presumably such signals are sometimes put in for cost reasons as the provision of power supplies and alterations to interlocking are cheaper than modern-day MAS units? I'm guessing the Dorman LED-based style of MAS head needs fancy electronics for switching between aspects and providing fail-safes.

 

David

[The Stationmaster]

I was going to mention that one, being one of the few modern semaphores I was aware of. I think there may be some similar like-for-like replacements on the northern approaches to Shrewsbury. Presumably such signals are sometimes put in for cost reasons as the provision of power supplies and alterations to interlocking are cheaper than modern-day MAS units? I'm guessing the Dorman LED-based style of MAS head needs fancy electronics for switching between aspects and poviding fail-safes.

 

David

 

It doesn't really matter what sort of colour light is used - as already noted the design costs alone for a colour light replacement could rule one out on economic grounds. Add in the physical works such as you mention and the cashometer will go off the clock - and that's before you chuck in the possession costs with all the extra testing. Mind you I suspect some of these monstrosities aren't going to be cheap jobs at possessions as cranage will be essential - the 'proper' WR equivalent of the Truro signal that started this thread would have been erected by the local signal gang and no need at all for a crane, in fact a WR (and no doubt others)signal with the arm 17ft above rail level could be readily erected without a crane.

[nev16f]

There's one at Tutbury on the Derby - Stoke line. Along with the huge cage, complete with locked gate, is a sign declaring "This mechanical equipment may move without warning!"

[LNERGE]

For an example of costs.. During the replacement of the first signal i wanted to strap the signal proving to maintain block working. I was quoted ??40,000.00 for design to place one wire between two disconnection points for the duration of the works. The job got handsignalled.

[Leicester Thumper]

Cost.

 

It's cheaper to replace "old" semaphores with "newer" semaphores than colour light signalling basically.

 

Ahh, well that makes sense, it's normally about cost....

 

Replacing a semaphore with a colour light requires alteration to locking, provision of track circuits (if its a stop signal), and all sorts of other things that a "like for like" replacement avoids and if there is no traffic requirement for the benefits a colour light can bring then one of these monstrosities is provided.

 

ahh fair enough, I didn't think about it in this sense, and yes, i see what you mean there. in a lot of ways they are 'monstrosities' but in a lot of ways i still find them more attractive than the colour light signals, the semaphores have that sort of classic charm about them

[Swindon 123]

When one of the semaphores was replaced like for like at Shrewsbury Crewe Jcn coming off the Crewe road I asked the question why not put a colour light instead and the answer I was given was that in an area predominately signalled with semaphores then the replacement would not be a colour light as it would overpower the nearby semaphores, especially at night, Gobowen on the Up road is a case in point, the colour light Section signal overpowers the two intermediate semaphore signals at night although this was a much earlier resignalling job.

 

Paul J.

[DavidBelcher]

When one of the semaphores was replaced like for like at Shrewsbury Crewe Jcn coming off the Crewe road I asked the question why not put a colour light instead and the answer I was given was that in an area predominately signalled with semaphores then the replacement would not be a colour light as it would overpower the nearby semaphores, especially at night, Gobowen on the Up road is a case in point, the colour light Section signal overpowers the two intermediate semaphore signals at night although this was a much earlier resignalling job.

 

Paul J.

 

And yet at the other end of Shrewsbury station a pair of 3-aspect signals control the exit from the two bay platforms alongside an assortment of semaphores for the through lines!

 

David

[Edwin_m]

I seriously wonder if a proper risk assessment was undrertaken before the appearance of all this added steelwork which not only increases cost but provides plenty of opportunities for a signal to become obscured or less clearly visible to a Driver. I have only ever heard of one instance of a Lampie falling off a signal (and he wasn't hurt) and none of a Lineman/S&T Tech falling off one - but there have been plenty of occasions when signal have not been properly visible to Drivers.

 

...not to mention providing a great aiming platform and ammo store for any of the local yobbery who fancy chucking bricks at trains.

[gismorail]

Having looked at the signals at Harrogate picture I reckon the posts that the arms are fixed to are stove pipes from Overhead caternary systems. I should know i put enough of them up on the Trent Valley Four tracking project. Believe me its very much make do and mend on our modern railway system at the present time